Mandatory Sentencing
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Drug addiction can be extremely sad, tragic, or in others cases, entirely predictable and full of bad choices and not pitiable at all.
Depends on the situation. But I'm surprised to hear you say that you'd have no sympathy for someone who ODed on a serious drug, Vapor.
Man, you guys are some heartless motherfuckers in here...
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Oh, I'm not arguing that it's good for people to be using it recreationally, or isn't harmful. Hell, every time I've been prescribed it I don't even get the script filled.
I'm just noting that there have been some discussions about mandatory sentencing in here, and how it's necessary to keep judges from being too lenient. But no judge in America would sentence this guy to 25 years in jail for what he did. He wouldn't even get five years. It shows you how fucked up this system is.
As for heroin dealers, I'm not for putting non-violent drug offenders in jail. You can make it pay in other ways.
I'm just noting that there have been some discussions about mandatory sentencing in here, and how it's necessary to keep judges from being too lenient. But no judge in America would sentence this guy to 25 years in jail for what he did. He wouldn't even get five years. It shows you how fucked up this system is.
Imagine if the judicial system had a mandatory sentence for lets say drugs since its on topic. We would have to build new jails in nearly every county in the US...Or would we? Would those kind of sentences be enough to clean up crime?
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Drug addiction can be extremely sad, tragic, or in others cases, entirely predictable and full of bad choices and not pitiable at all.
Depends on the situation. But I'm surprised to hear you say that you'd have no sympathy for someone who ODed on a serious drug, Vapor.
Man, you guys are some heartless motherfuckers in here...
Drug addiction can be extremely sad, tragic, or in others cases, entirely predictable and full of bad choices and not pitiable at all.
Depends on the situation. But I'm surprised to hear you say that you'd have no sympathy for someone who ODed on a serious drug, Vapor.
Man, you guys are some heartless motherfuckers in here...
It happened to one of my former best friend's brothers ~3 months ago. That friend of mine just got out of rehab. I am extremely sympathetic to the family, but christ, get a grip on things before you do enough drugs to end your life. It just seems selfish. It's not like you were depressed and didn't want to continue living, you just overestimated what you could handle and now you're gone. If you're going to do drugs, don't be nonchalant about it.
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Oh, I'm not arguing that it's good for people to be using it recreationally, or isn't harmful. Hell, every time I've been prescribed it I don't even get the script filled.
I'm just noting that there have been some discussions about mandatory sentencing in here, and how it's necessary to keep judges from being too lenient. But no judge in America would sentence this guy to 25 years in jail for what he did. He wouldn't even get five years. It shows you how fucked up this system is.
As for heroin dealers, I'm not for putting non-violent drug offenders in jail. You can make it pay in other ways.
Oh, I'm not arguing that it's good for people to be using it recreationally, or isn't harmful. Hell, every time I've been prescribed it I don't even get the script filled.
I'm just noting that there have been some discussions about mandatory sentencing in here, and how it's necessary to keep judges from being too lenient. But no judge in America would sentence this guy to 25 years in jail for what he did. He wouldn't even get five years. It shows you how fucked up this system is.
As for heroin dealers, I'm not for putting non-violent drug offenders in jail. You can make it pay in other ways.
An end user might be a non violent drug offender but your average heroin dealer is contributing to all kinds of violence. First of all, I'd be willing to bet that many of them are never without their illegal firearm, because as we all know Heroin addiction breeds the sort of monsters that will steal, maim, kill do whatever they have to do to get their next fix. Your average pothead is probably not going to fatally shoot someone on the street for the five dollars that person might be carrying to get a bag of pot. It just doesn't affect you in that way. Nobody is getting dopesick off of pot. Opiates are a very different story. It becomes a physical addiction. DTs. Dopesick. That's why so many heroin users have turned to prostitution and violence to get what they need.
So while your 'non violent drug offender' stuff has plenty of merit you have to take into account the drugs that these non violent offenders are mixed up in. Pot, Ecstasy, Acid, these things are not necessarily good for you but many of the offenses concerning them can safely be classified as non violent.
Cocaine, Heroin, PCP these are a different story altogether. Many of the offenses concerning these things are plenty violent, sordid and damaging.
This is where the war on drugs becomes extremely ambiguous. Some drugs that really don't need war declared on them are lumped in with the drugs that are legitimate problems. You can't just look at the whole and say 'Oh the war on drugs is ridiculous' It's not. It's not without merit. It's just that a bunch of people who don't know the difference between pot and Heroin are the ones directing the war on drugs.
I'm an adventerous person. In my time Ive tried every food, every thrill, and yes even every drug I've come across. Im not a user of anything in particular, but I've tried them in the time of my life when trying such things was not as damaging to my family life and career as they are now. I feel justified in telling you that Opiates are much more dangerous and deserve to be taken much more seriously than Pot and other drugs that are unfairly lumped into the 'war on drugs'. So yes, if I were in the position to do so, I'd throw the book at the heroin dealers. Even if they are not actively causing violence the substance that they peddle is associated on many levels with violence and moral and societal decay.
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I would agree with you and would treat different drugs differently according to their effects and negative consequences, but the main reason there's so much violence associated with drug use is because we've made it illegal to obtain and created a black market for them.
There are few policy failures, if any, that could equal the War on Drugs. I'd happily take the small increase in drug use that would come from legalization in return for the financial and societal benefits that would come from treating drug violations in a completely different way. People should get fines, court ordered treatment, and the like. Jail should be reserved for people who endanger or injure others, or who sell to minors.
Stories like this one, where a guy who has done very little to deserve any jail time at all instead gets a mandatory 25 years ...it's insane. It's enraging. That's his life. It's also his daughter's life, as she'll now have no father. This is repeated hundreds of thousands of times over every year. It's mindless and counterproductive, and we do it to ourselves. We put so many people in the system for no good reason, and in doing so sentence many of them to a lifetime in the underclass.
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I would agree with you and would treat different drugs differently according to their effects and negative consequences, but the main reason there's so much violence associated with drug use is because we've made it illegal to obtain and created a black market for them.
There are few policy failures, if any, that could equal the War on Drugs. I'd happily take the small increase in drug use that would come from legalization in return for the financial and societal benefits that would come from treating drug violations in a completely different way. People should get fines, court ordered treatment, and the like. Jail should be reserved for people who endanger or injure others, or who sell to minors.
Stories like this one, where a guy who has done very little to deserve any jail time at all instead gets a mandatory 25 years ...it's insane. It's enraging. That's his life. It's also his daughter's life, as she'll now have no father. This is repeated hundreds of thousands of times over every year. It's mindless and counterproductive, and we do it to ourselves. We put so many people in the system for no good reason, and in doing so sentence many of them to a lifetime in the underclass.
I would agree with you and would treat different drugs differently according to their effects and negative consequences, but the main reason there's so much violence associated with drug use is because we've made it illegal to obtain and created a black market for them.
There are few policy failures, if any, that could equal the War on Drugs. I'd happily take the small increase in drug use that would come from legalization in return for the financial and societal benefits that would come from treating drug violations in a completely different way. People should get fines, court ordered treatment, and the like. Jail should be reserved for people who endanger or injure others, or who sell to minors.
Stories like this one, where a guy who has done very little to deserve any jail time at all instead gets a mandatory 25 years ...it's insane. It's enraging. That's his life. It's also his daughter's life, as she'll now have no father. This is repeated hundreds of thousands of times over every year. It's mindless and counterproductive, and we do it to ourselves. We put so many people in the system for no good reason, and in doing so sentence many of them to a lifetime in the underclass.
The Majority of drug violence has to do with the trafficking of drugs and it is true that this is largely because they are illegal, and thus the extremely lucrative business of providing these highly sought after illegal substances is cut-throat. You can see evidence of this in the sadistic cess-pit that is Mexico. Bestgore . com will show you all you need to know about that.
I still argue that Heroin and Opiates are one drug that also breeds violence that has nothing to do with the trafficking of the drug, and everything to do with the use of it simply because an addicts need to fix is stronger than anything else in that person's life and they will often literally do anything to get that fix. If violence will get them the money required to get their gear than violence is what they will employ. If prostitution will get them that money than they will prostitute. I've known a number of Heroin addicts and most of them are dead now, but before they died they sank to unfathomable depths.
But more on topic, you are right. 25 years of mandatory jail is unreasonable given the fact that this guy isn't selling heroin for a living. He probably is rather ignorant of the actual problem of opiate addiction and violence and thus a little lenience could have been shown. I'd still give him jail time but 25 years? I think not. A single year would more than get the point across.
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I believe the mandatory sentencing was primarily born out of the liberal judges' coddling of drug crimes, etc.
It's wrong. True justice requires punishment due to the circumstances, nature of the crime, and intent.
It's kinda like "zero tolerance" of guns in school, with a kid who wears his army tshirt with soldiers pictured on it,
or brings a toy soldier to school.
Mandatory crap isn't designed to fit the crime - it's more designed to effect a culture war of sorts. Innocent people can be caught in the middle.
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I believe the mandatory sentencing was primarily born out of the liberal judges' coddling of drug crimes, etc.
It's wrong. True justice requires punishment due to the circumstances, nature of the crime, and intent.
It's kinda like "zero tolerance" of guns in school, with a kid who wears his army tshirt with soldiers pictured on it,
or brings a toy soldier to school.
Mandatory crap isn't designed to fit the crime - it's more designed to effect a culture war of sorts. Innocent people can be caught in the middle.
I believe the mandatory sentencing was primarily born out of the liberal judges' coddling of drug crimes, etc.
It's wrong. True justice requires punishment due to the circumstances, nature of the crime, and intent.
It's kinda like "zero tolerance" of guns in school, with a kid who wears his army tshirt with soldiers pictured on it,
or brings a toy soldier to school.
Mandatory crap isn't designed to fit the crime - it's more designed to effect a culture war of sorts. Innocent people can be caught in the middle.
Thus guy isn't innocent. He recieved $1800 dollars for selling drugs. He's a drug dealer
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A few thoughts:
First the libertarian in me thinks the drug laws are stupid in the first place.
The authoritarian says if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
The cynic says that it makes sense the trial lawyers hate mandatory sentences because a big payoff for them can usually get a criminal of the hook.
Also when you replace actual punishment with big fine the legal system becomes a cash cow, which it is already.
And my combative side shakes his head and wonders were you were when the thousands of innocent people, women and children are raped beaten robbed and murdered by animals who have been let go by some bleeding heart asshole judge.
WSS
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so a street corner heroin dealer deserves a fine and probation? This guy is guilty of the same thing. So the rules shouldn't be different because he peddled oxycontin instead of Heroin. 25 years mandatory is crazy, but he doesn't get off with a fine and probation because he had a prescription for it. Sorry that's not how the world works. Drug dealing is drug dealing is drug dealing. Like I said, he sure didn't do it for sympathy. He did it for money and he's in a hole he dug himself into. I have no sympathy for him.
I do. Even under the worst reading of what he's done he's still not done anything terribly serious, and certainly nothing worth ruining his life for. But that's what we do in the name of "getting tough on drugs." We ruin lots of lives.
And yes, I think a street corner heroin dealer deserves a stiff fine and no jail time for a first offense. If there's no violence involved, and you're not caught selling to minors, it should not land you in jail. You should be fined and put on probation.
I do. Even under the worst reading of what he's done he's still not done anything terribly serious, and certainly nothing worth ruining his life for. But that's what we do in the name of "getting tough on drugs." We ruin lots of lives.
And yes, I think a street corner heroin dealer deserves a stiff fine and no jail time for a first offense. If there's no violence involved, and you're not caught selling to minors, it should not land you in jail. You should be fined and put on probation.
I'm pretty sure that already happens. The prisons are already overcrowded as are the jails. In Cleveland and I'm sure LA the police won't even put you in jail or enforce a misdemeanor warrant. Only felonies. No room or they have to use a suburban jail and pay for it.
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Just as an aside, Heck don't you realize you are unfairly targeting the poor with fines?
Victimizing the members of society who are least able to afford it!
Oh the humanity!
WSS
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Man, you are a garden variety Republican crank.
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Man, you are a garden variety Republican crank.
Man, you are a garden variety Republican crank.
And yet completely and absolutely correct.
Ironic aint it?
WSS
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Haha. Yes, the crank always thinks he's right. That's part of what makes him a crank.
I can't remember the last time I thought you were right or insightful about anything. You're just a really poor summarizer with a knack for logical fallacies. It's tough to be right when your assumptions are always wrong.
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I do. Even under the worst reading of what he's done he's still not done anything terribly serious, and certainly nothing worth ruining his life for. But that's what we do in the name of "getting tough on drugs." We ruin lots of lives.
And yes, I think a street corner heroin dealer deserves a stiff fine and no jail time for a first offense. If there's no violence involved, and you're not caught selling to minors, it should not land you in jail. You should be fined and put on probation.
I'm pretty sure that already happens. The prisons are already overcrowded as are the jails. In Cleveland and I'm sure LA the police won't even put you in jail or enforce a misdemeanor warrant. Only felonies. No room or they have to use a suburban jail and pay for it.
I'm pretty sure that already happens. The prisons are already overcrowded as are the jails. In Cleveland and I'm sure LA the police won't even put you in jail or enforce a misdemeanor warrant. Only felonies. No room or they have to use a suburban jail and pay for it.
Well, here are the Ohio drug laws. See if you can find what you're looking for in here. I tried to post it but it wouldn't let me. Said I was using too many emoticons.
Seriously, start reading in there and try not to imagine you're in a Joseph Heller novel.
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REACT: Megyn Kelly, Michelle Malkin Take On Columbia for Hiring Ex-Radical Kathy Boudin as Professor
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Columbia University has sparked outrage by giving a prestigious professorship to a former Weather Underground radical who spent 22 years in prison for a 1981 robbery that left three people dead.
Kathy Boudin, 69, now holds an adjunct professorship at Columbia University’s School of Social Work, The New York Post reported today. She apparently teaches courses on convicts re-entering society.
A movie by Robert Redford, “The Company You Keep,” also starring Susan Sarandon, is loosely based on the $1.6 million heist and will be released in a week. Two police officers and a Brinks security guard were killed in the robbery.
Megyn Kelly discussed the latest controversy surrounding an American university with Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin, who said colleges in this country are increasingly turning into “cesspools of tenured radicalization and rationalization for left-wing domestic violence.”
She said people need to take notice of how colleges and Hollywood are “whitewashing” the violent acts of the Weather Underground and other left-wing groups.
Megyn pointed out that O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony were acquitted of murder, but punished in the court of public opinion, while Boudin is now teaching Ivy League students.
“She can admit to killing three law enforcement officers, serve 22 years in prison for it, and Columbia University gives her a prestigious job!” said Kelly.
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Haha. Yes, the crank always thinks he's right. That's part of what makes him a crank.
I can't remember the last time I thought you were right or insightful about anything. You're just a really poor summarizer with a knack for logical fallacies. It's tough to be right when your assumptions are always wrong.
Haha. Yes, the crank always thinks he's right. That's part of what makes him a crank.
I can't remember the last time I thought you were right or insightful about anything. You're just a really poor summarizer with a knack for logical fallacies. It's tough to be right when your assumptions are always wrong.
Well seeing as how you have been reduced to nothing more than ad hominem attacks I guess I'm not all that crushed.
Bite my crank matey.
WSS
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Oh, dear God. That's not an example of an ad hominem attack. But I guess the guy who includes a logical fallacy in just about every post wouldn't know one when he sees one.
Go back and find any the dozens of "Of course you would say that because you're an Obama bootlicker" posts.
There. That's the ad hominem fallacy.
Someone who takes every thread about the legal system and brings it back to a bitch about trial lawyers and liberal judges; who takes every every discussion about voting rights and takes it back to illiterate blacks on welfare, food stamp, and drugs; who takes every thread about global warming and brings it back to Al Gore; who took a thread about income inequality and suggested liberals want everyone to make the same amount of money, and I could go on ...yes, this is garden variety Republican crankery.
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Here are Ohio's drug sentencing guidelines, including mandatory sentences.
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Well I may or may not have used the word buttlicker still I'd say attacking me as a crank or asshole or whatever, (which is usually the height of your wit) , count as an attack on my character.
Lets try this: and that is because you are an arrogant dickhead.
Voila
But I understand your position. you are more angry that heroin dealers get 1 president terms then you are about child killers be released.
I have not seen any polls but I assume child rapists and murderers vote Democrat?
WSS
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