Losses Vs. Gains Comparison
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Gipper you are grading these losses and gains as if the playets on the roster dont exist. "what is team xyz going to do with the loss of player x" and then you list fa or drafted players in very finite fashion. A lot of players you attempted to grade out arent even the expected starters at those positions. all of which brings me to my previous point, this thread is pointless and a pathetic effort to place the browns higher up the tree. Great work lol.
Gipper you are grading these losses and gains as if the playets on the roster dont exist. "what is team xyz going to do with the loss of player x" and then you list fa or drafted players in very finite fashion. A lot of players you attempted to grade out arent even the expected starters at those positions. all of which brings me to my previous point, this thread is pointless and a pathetic effort to place the browns higher up the tree. Great work lol.
The thread does just what is says it does: it compares losses and gains. What is it about that you don't understand?
No, it does NOT grade the ENTIRE team roster. Who ever claimed it was supposed to?
OK, sure maybe say Josh Cribbs place on the Browns as th #3-4 WR and the KR/PR might be taken up by a current roster member...perhaps Travis Benjamin. So? This deals with who is no longer going to be on a teams roster vs. who they have newly acquired at those positions
I mean, God, really, are you that thickheaded that you cannot process thought cognitively, spatially or conceptually?
I mean, I didn't realize how apt it was when I used the "Jump, Jip, Jump" metaphor.
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ESPN's Free Agent Tracker had him listed as a Defensive End. He played Defensive End in Denver basically.
On my list I had Defensive line and LBs right next to one another.. You mean you couldn't follow along?
I guess I didn't truly realize just how "Special" you were.
He isnt playing de in a 34 gipper. i know your primary knowledge bank is google but i had hoped you werent going to always take things so literally. he also played a lot of olb for the broncos. yet another weak spot in the gipper knowledge armor, dont know it? Google!!! it!!
edit: i skim most of your rambling and i went straight to certain areas. they didnt do much if anything on the dline so didnt look there.
He isnt playing de in a 34 gipper. i know your primary knowledge bank is google but i had hoped you werent going to always take things so literally. he also played a lot of olb for the broncos. yet another weak spot in the gipper knowledge armor, dont know it? Google!!! it!!
He is a combination DE/LB. ESPN/PFR etc. etc etc. list him at DE (yea, I get my info from sources....not out of my asshole like you).....just like a million other players. BFD....who cares what he is designate if you have to block him. Sometimes he may line up right over center.
edit: i skim most of your rambling and i went straight to certain areas. they didnt do much if anything on the dline so didnt look there.
So, you just stupidly ran your mouth in criticism without even bothering to read what you were being critical of.
Again, and again, and again. It is like dealing with a baby.
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He isnt playing de in a 34 gipper. i know your primary knowledge bank is google but i had hoped you werent going to always take things so literally. he also played a lot of olb for the broncos. yet another weak spot in the gipper knowledge armor, dont know it? Google!!! it!!
He is a combination DE/LB. ESPN/PFR etc. etc etc. list him at DE (yea, I get my info from sources....not out of my asshole like you).....just like a million other players. BFD....who cares what he is designate if you have to block him. Sometimes he may line up right over center.
edit: i skim most of your rambling and i went straight to certain areas. they didnt do much if anything on the dline so didnt look there.
So, you just stupidly ran your mouth in criticism without even bothering to read what you were being critical of.
Again, and again, and again. It is like dealing with a baby.
He isnt playing de in a 34 gipper. i know your primary knowledge bank is google buloot i had hoped you werent going to always take things so literally. he also played a lot of olb for the broncos. yet another weak spot in the gipper knowledge armor, dont know it? Google!!! it!!
He is a combination DE/LB. ESPN/PFR etc. etc etc. list him at DE (yea, I get my info from sources....not out of my asshole like you).....just like a million other players. BFD....who cares what he is designate if you have to block him. Sometimes he may line up right over center.
edit: i skim most of your rambling and i went straight to certain areas. they didnt do much if anything on the dline so didnt look there.
So, you just stupidly ran your mouth in criticism without even bothering to read what you were being critical of.
Again, and again, and again. It is like dealing with a baby.
gipper you are a blowhard with a self inflated opinion and knowledge base. i knew the ravens didnt do shit on the dline but because espn has him as a de you do as well. he wont be playing de for the ravens. you also graded out the moves like the draft or the free agents were the sole "answer" for the recent starter vacancies which is why this thread is mind numbing and short sighted. stupid thread is stupid.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Dude you are just a whiney ass bitch. How many times are you going to cry about the same old shit? So you wanted the F.O. to do what philly did last year huh? How has that worked for them so far? I'm pretty damn sure they picked ahead of us this year. Its the FIRST YEAR of this new regime and they have a plan in place and they're not gonna deviate from it just to satisfy whiney ass fans such as yourself. Did they make every single move they could have? No. Did they fill all the holes and needs of the team? No. They targeted the players they were interested in, some they got, some they didn't. WAAHHH they didn't throw tons of $ at every player that was available so we'd be in cap hell for the next decade WAAHHHH... as far as T.E. and C.B. goes, they made attempts to upgrade, just didn't happen. Take your tampon out and move the fuck on already. I really really can't wait for the season to start and I hope the players in the positions your crying about play well so you can finally shut the fuck up and quit your bitching dude.
!!!!hopefully i'll be alive when it happens!!!! -
He isnt playing de in a 34 gipper. i know your primary knowledge bank is google buloot i had hoped you werent going to always take things so literally. he also played a lot of olb for the broncos. yet another weak spot in the gipper knowledge armor, dont know it? Google!!! it!!
He is a combination DE/LB. ESPN/PFR etc. etc etc. list him at DE (yea, I get my info from sources....not out of my asshole like you).....just like a million other players. BFD....who cares what he is designate if you have to block him. Sometimes he may line up right over center.
edit: i skim most of your rambling and i went straight to certain areas. they didnt do much if anything on the dline so didnt look there.
So, you just stupidly ran your mouth in criticism without even bothering to read what you were being critical of.
Again, and again, and again. It is like dealing with a baby.
gipper you are a blowhard with a self inflated opinion and knowledge base. i knew the ravens didnt do shit on the dline but because espn has him as a de you do as well. he wont be playing de for the ravens. you also graded out the moves like the draft or the free agents were the sole "answer" for the recent starter vacancies which is why this thread is mind numbing and short sighted. stupid thread is stupid.
gipper you are a blowhard with a self inflated opinion and knowledge base. i knew the ravens didnt do shit on the dline but because espn has him as a de you do as well. he wont be playing de for the ravens. you also graded out the moves like the draft or the free agents were the sole "answer" for the recent starter vacancies which is why this thread is mind numbing and short sighted. stupid thread is stupid.
This thread had a very, very simple premise: Take a look at the players a team has lost from its roster due to free agency.
Compare that to the players they picked up in free agency and the draft....and give it a grade.
I don't know how I could have dumbed it down any more for the likes of you.
It was never intended to be a comprehensive ranking or analysis of a team's entire roster.
By all means....if YOU have a premise that you want to explore....a method of evaluating teams that you want to delve into....go ahead....start your own thread. Nothing is stopping you from doing things the way you want to.
Don't like what I have to offer? Do something yourself.
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Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
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Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Dude you are just a whiney ass bitch. How many times are you going to cry about the same old shit? So you wanted the F.O. to do what philly did last year huh? How has that worked for them so far? I'm pretty damn sure they picked ahead of us this year. Its the FIRST YEAR of this new regime and they have a plan in place and they're not gonna deviate from it just to satisfy whiney ass fans such as yourself. Did they make every single move they could have? No. Did they fill all the holes and needs of the team? No. They targeted the players they were interested in, some they got, some they didn't. WAAHHH they didn't throw tons of $ at every player that was available so we'd be in cap hell for the next decade WAAHHHH... as far as T.E. and C.B. goes, they made attempts to upgrade, just didn't happen. Take your tampon out and move the fuck on already. I really really can't wait for the season to start and I hope the players in the positions your crying about play well so you can finally shut the fuck up and quit your bitching dude.
Dude you are just a whiney ass bitch. How many times are you going to cry about the same old shit? So you wanted the F.O. to do what philly did last year huh? How has that worked for them so far? I'm pretty damn sure they picked ahead of us this year. Its the FIRST YEAR of this new regime and they have a plan in place and they're not gonna deviate from it just to satisfy whiney ass fans such as yourself. Did they make every single move they could have? No. Did they fill all the holes and needs of the team? No. They targeted the players they were interested in, some they got, some they didn't. WAAHHH they didn't throw tons of $ at every player that was available so we'd be in cap hell for the next decade WAAHHHH... as far as T.E. and C.B. goes, they made attempts to upgrade, just didn't happen. Take your tampon out and move the fuck on already. I really really can't wait for the season to start and I hope the players in the positions your crying about play well so you can finally shut the fuck up and quit your bitching dude.
I think it was always the Browns plan to go for a CB in the draft. Any pursuit of a FA CB seemed to me to be half-hearted.
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Dude you are just a whiney ass bitch. How many times are you going to cry about the same old shit? So you wanted the F.O. to do what philly did last year huh? How has that worked for them so far? I'm pretty damn sure they picked ahead of us this year. Its the FIRST YEAR of this new regime and they have a plan in place and they're not gonna deviate from it just to satisfy whiney ass fans such as yourself. Did they make every single move they could have? No. Did they fill all the holes and needs of the team? No. They targeted the players they were interested in, some they got, some they didn't. WAAHHH they didn't throw tons of $ at every player that was available so we'd be in cap hell for the next decade WAAHHHH... as far as T.E. and C.B. goes, they made attempts to upgrade, just didn't happen. Take your tampon out and move the fuck on already. I really really can't wait for the season to start and I hope the players in the positions your crying about play well so you can finally shut the fuck up and quit your bitching dude.
I think it was always the Browns plan to go for a CB in the draft. Any pursuit of a FA CB seemed to me to be half-hearted.
I think it was always the Browns plan to go for a CB in the draft. Any pursuit of a FA CB seemed to me to be half-hearted.
I agree. They seemed settled on beefing up the front seven, if their guys was available (which he was), and plan A was to use the next pick on a DB, the best available in their opinion.
Not sure whether to be happy the FO got their plan A, or slightly concerned that the plan A guys were still available when we drafted! But let's not open that can of worms again
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Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
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Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Dude you are just a whiney ass bitch. How many times are you going to cry about the same old shit? So you wanted the F.O. to do what philly did last year huh? How has that worked for them so far? I'm pretty damn sure they picked ahead of us this year. Its the FIRST YEAR of this new regime and they have a plan in place and they're not gonna deviate from it just to satisfy whiney ass fans such as yourself. Did they make every single move they could have? No. Did they fill all the holes and needs of the team? No. They targeted the players they were interested in, some they got, some they didn't. WAAHHH they didn't throw tons of $ at every player that was available so we'd be in cap hell for the next decade WAAHHHH... as far as T.E. and C.B. goes, they made attempts to upgrade, just didn't happen. Take your tampon out and move the fuck on already. I really really can't wait for the season to start and I hope the players in the positions your crying about play well so you can finally shut the fuck up and quit your bitching dude.
Dude you are just a whiney ass bitch. How many times are you going to cry about the same old shit? So you wanted the F.O. to do what philly did last year huh? How has that worked for them so far? I'm pretty damn sure they picked ahead of us this year. Its the FIRST YEAR of this new regime and they have a plan in place and they're not gonna deviate from it just to satisfy whiney ass fans such as yourself. Did they make every single move they could have? No. Did they fill all the holes and needs of the team? No. They targeted the players they were interested in, some they got, some they didn't. WAAHHH they didn't throw tons of $ at every player that was available so we'd be in cap hell for the next decade WAAHHHH... as far as T.E. and C.B. goes, they made attempts to upgrade, just didn't happen. Take your tampon out and move the fuck on already. I really really can't wait for the season to start and I hope the players in the positions your crying about play well so you can finally shut the fuck up and quit your bitching dude.
No, I just want a GM who is smart and is trying to win EVERY year, not two or three or four years down the road. Especially when the "long-term" plan approach has been modus operandi for 14 years now! Browns were mediocre in free agency despite having the most money of any team. And then in the draft, Browns could have used those 4th and 5th round picks to add a quality free safety, not this one legged and slow ND safety, Slaughter, and picked up a nice TE prospect to groom. I dislike incompetence and that it was Browns fans get year after year after year with the pathetic management people they hire.
Even Barky Mingo, a nice guy by all counts with a lot of athletic ability, but the great pass rushers all had a mean streak to them, like Harrison and Taylor. Mingo seems too nice for pro football! I hope not.
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Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Skeptical2013 said:
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
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gipper you are a blowhard with a self inflated opinion and knowledge base. i knew the ravens didnt do shit on the dline but because espn has him as a de you do as well. he wont be playing de for the ravens. you also graded out the moves like the draft or the free agents were the sole "answer" for the recent starter vacancies which is why this thread is mind numbing and short sighted. stupid thread is stupid.
This thread had a very, very simple premise: Take a look at the players a team has lost from its roster due to free agency.
Compare that to the players they picked up in free agency and the draft....and give it a grade.
I don't know how I could have dumbed it down any more for the likes of you.
It was never intended to be a comprehensive ranking or analysis of a team's entire roster.
By all means....if YOU have a premise that you want to explore....a method of evaluating teams that you want to delve into....go ahead....start your own thread. Nothing is stopping you from doing things the way you want to.
Don't like what I have to offer? Do something yourself.
This thread had a very, very simple premise: Take a look at the players a team has lost from its roster due to free agency.
Compare that to the players they picked up in free agency and the draft....and give it a grade.
I don't know how I could have dumbed it down any more for the likes of you.
It was never intended to be a comprehensive ranking or analysis of a team's entire roster.
By all means....if YOU have a premise that you want to explore....a method of evaluating teams that you want to delve into....go ahead....start your own thread. Nothing is stopping you from doing things the way you want to.
Don't like what I have to offer? Do something yourself.
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Skeptical2013 said:
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Well, they drafted a CB they needed: Leon McFadden
They drafted a FS they needed: Jamoris Slaughter
The brought in two FA DBs: Barnes and Owens
They got rid of guys we all thought were not doing a very good job: Sheldon Brown/ Usama Young.
They still have: Haden, Ward, Hagg, Skrine, T. Gipson, Wade, Prince Miller, Bademosi, Kent Richardson
They've got bodies.....some are pretty good, some are developing. I don't think they are as bad as you think, but no, they probably don't have a Pro Bowler at every position....or do they?
Haden is All Pro Caliber
Ward is Pro Bowl Caliber
Maybe McFadden is the find of the draft.
Maybe Jamoris Slaughter recovers and really develops.
Sorry Chicken Little, I don't thinkt he sky is falling on our defensive backfield....though maybe a little rain is falling.
And if our front 7 is as badass as we hope, that will make this backfield better.
-
This thread had a very, very simple premise: Take a look at the players a team has lost from its roster due to free agency.
Compare that to the players they picked up in free agency and the draft....and give it a grade.
I don't know how I could have dumbed it down any more for the likes of you.
It was never intended to be a comprehensive ranking or analysis of a team's entire roster.
By all means....if YOU have a premise that you want to explore....a method of evaluating teams that you want to delve into....go ahead....start your own thread. Nothing is stopping you from doing things the way you want to.
Don't like what I have to offer? Do something yourself.
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
All I did was compare what teams lost vs. what teams gained....and tried to determine if those moves constituted an upgrade or a downgrade.
I pointed out in many cases if a team had major losses.....like the Ravens losing their top 3 LBs....or major gains...like the Browns getting 3 decent LBs in lieu of 3 poor LBs...or the Bengals getting Tyler Eifert.
But in many other cases I pointed out very minor changes....like the Browns losing no one on the OL, but taking an OL in the 7th round.
The thread did what it did. Not sure why you are trying to pervert it or make it something it isn't. It is supposed to be a simple, fun exercise. You want to turn it into World War Z.
-
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
All I did was compare what teams lost vs. what teams gained....and tried to determine if those moves constituted an upgrade or a downgrade.
I pointed out in many cases if a team had major losses.....like the Ravens losing their top 3 LBs....or major gains...like the Browns getting 3 decent LBs in lieu of 3 poor LBs...or the Bengals getting Tyler Eifert.
But in many other cases I pointed out very minor changes....like the Browns losing no one on the OL, but taking an OL in the 7th round.
The thread did what it did. Not sure why you are trying to pervert it or make it something it isn't. It is supposed to be a simple, fun exercise. You want to turn it into World War Z.
All I did was compare what teams lost vs. what teams gained....and tried to determine if those moves constituted an upgrade or a downgrade.
I pointed out in many cases if a team had major losses.....like the Ravens losing their top 3 LBs....or major gains...like the Browns getting 3 decent LBs in lieu of 3 poor LBs...or the Bengals getting Tyler Eifert.
But in many other cases I pointed out very minor changes....like the Browns losing no one on the OL, but taking an OL in the 7th round.
The thread did what it did. Not sure why you are trying to pervert it or make it something it isn't. It is supposed to be a simple, fun exercise. You want to turn it into World War Z.
I don't enjoy the occasionally ridiculous banter for which I usually participate. I would much rather be civil and concede valid opinions when they are valid and not try and "haterade" them with the rivalry juices. When I read over this thread I took it one way. You were going through the losses and gains but then evaluating each loss and gain like those replacements whether via the draft or free agency were the immediate starters. Obviously we both know this isn't true. I also don't believe the Ravens or the Steelers are going to be hurting anywhere close to as much as you want them to be. The Ratbirds added Dumvervill and Arthur Brown. You won't get the kind of leadership out of Brown that you would Lewis or the immediate savvy BUT it's not like Lewis was in his prime when he retired. I expect Arthur Brown to be similarly productive when looking at how Lewis was playing when he retired. Who knows how he will be from that point on and then same can be said for the departure of James Harrison. I hated to see him go but I'm very confident in the ability of Worilds and the potential prowess of Jones. On paper the Steelers, REALLY, REALLY drafted well and each guy is of very high character something they've gambled with a bit as of late (Rainey, Ta'amu, Anthony Smith, Mike Wallace etc)
-
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Skeptical2013 said:
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
Tj ward top 10? Haden is top 10 but not top 5, all of which is of course my opinion. I guess we will find out.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
What we did was get two guys that greatly enhanced the Browns talent at the positions they played. Maybe they are or maybe they are not Pro Bowlers.....they are a damn sight better than Kaluka Maiava and Chris Gocong.....and they were the top rated players at their position.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
Who was out there at CB or FS that was so great? A decrepit Ed Reed which the Browns wanted no part of because of his age. Maybe Dashon Goldon....who is a safety who may be a SS....and not better than Ward who we had. There weren't any "great CBs" available. Hell....the guy we cut loose, Sheldon Brown was considered to be one of the top CB FAs this year.
And, like I said, the Browns DID pick up two DBs....Owens and Barnes.
Bottom line: the Browns were going to get their DBs in the draft.
Perhaps a justified criticism would be to say they should have taken Millner. ( I thought they would). But I think they are satisfied with McFadden, even if you are not.
Perhaps a justified criticism is trading those two picks for picks next year.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I am a Browns fan, and maybe I do see orange and brown. But, if I see a basis for criticism, I am certainly going to make it. Have you not paid all these years? I spend half my time criticizing them for one reason or another.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with your poor judgment in these matters.
I have my own damned opinions...and they are far sight more cogent than yours.
-
Zombo said:
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
Tj ward top 10? Haden is top 10 but not top 5, all of which is of course my opinion. I guess we will find out.
Tj ward top 10? Haden is top 10 but not top 5, all of which is of course my opinion. I guess we will find out.
Name 5 CBs better than Haden. Name 10 SS better than Ward.
In the words of Mike Singletary: Can't do it.
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