Minicamp Reports, 5-23
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Skeptical2013 said:
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going Deep
How the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years: Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
Do you think the system they ran last year might have something to do with that? I swear dude, every single post I've read of yours bitches about one thing or another. Now I know as Browns fans we are miserable a lot, but you seriously take it to the next level. Do you even enjoy being a browns fan??
To the mods, IMHO this guys the next candidate for a name change. Please punch me hard in the face.....would be my suggestion. TY
Do you think the system they ran last year might have something to do with that? I swear dude, every single post I've read of yours bitches about one thing or another. Now I know as Browns fans we are miserable a lot, but you seriously take it to the next level. Do you even enjoy being a browns fan??
To the mods, IMHO this guys the next candidate for a name change. Please punch me hard in the face.....would be my suggestion. TY
Yes, the system was a contributing factor, But I think a lot of factors contributed to the pathetic downfield performance by the receivers, and that includes the play of the receivers themselves!
Obviously Weeden had some problems, but the offensive line blocking was good. Browns receivers, like Gordon and Little, deserve some of the criticism, too, for the team's poor record vs. other teams in downfield receptions. That includes dropped passes and poor route running. Most OBJECTIVE people in football have observed that Gordon and Little are not great route runners, and that has inhibited their performance. Maybe they'll be better this year at route running. Let's hope so.
Bad route running doesn't seem to a problem for the top receivers on other AFC North foes!
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Oh, man... I love Gordon and Little going into 2013. I feel like the ceiling is SO high. Not many teams field a pair of receivers that big and strong and fast. Little does a 41" vertical, Gordon runs like a gazelle. Could be terrorizing defenses for a long time.
Oh, man... I love Gordon and Little going into 2013. I feel like the ceiling is SO high. Not many teams field a pair of receivers that big and strong and fast. Little does a 41" vertical, Gordon runs like a gazelle. Could be terrorizing defenses for a long time.
Interesting item here picks Gordon as the number one Fantasy Sleeper player for 2013.
http://voices.yahoo.com/fantasy-football-sleepers-2013-top-10-nfl-underrated-11952446.html
Despie all the enthusiasm here, Gordon and Little still have a lot to prove that they are one of the better receiving tandems in the NFL. It could happen this year, but then again maybe not.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going Deep
How the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years:
Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
I don't care about that shit. What I want to know is which team's Wide Receiving Corps YOU rank as the best for the upcoming 2013 season.
Can you understand the question?
Is it that difficult for you to do?
I don't care about that shit. What I want to know is which team's Wide Receiving Corps YOU rank as the best for the upcoming 2013 season.
Can you understand the question?
Is it that difficult for you to do?
You're not a very nice person, are you? Yesterday I listed 19 teams with wide receiving tandems better than Gordon/Little going in to this season, even though I am hoping for improvement from Gordon/Little this year and hope they move up the list. They offer promise, but you still have to do it on the field of play.
For my money, the best 1-2 receiving punch is in Atlanta. Probably Denver second with Miami and Chicago behind them and then a second tier of good ones in Green Bay, Cincy, Indy and NY Giants. In the AFC North, I'd rate the 1-2 receiving tandems as follows: Cincy, Balt., Cleveland, Pitts.
If Ashon jeffrey of Chicago can stay healthy, he's going to be a terrific NFL receiver. He was fabulous in the SEC. His one drawback is he lacks top line speed, but he knows how to get open better than Gordon does, at least at this point.
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago -
Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long agoDallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
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I don't care about that shit. What I want to know is which team's Wide Receiving Corps YOU rank as the best for the upcoming 2013 season.
Can you understand the question?
Is it that difficult for you to do?
You're not a very nice person, are you? Yesterday I listed 19 teams with wide receiving tandems better than Gordon/Little going in to this season, even though I am hoping for improvement from Gordon/Little this year and hope they move up the list. They offer promise, but you still have to do it on the field of play.
For my money, the best 1-2 receiving punch is in Atlanta. Probably Denver second with Miami and Chicago behind them and then a second tier of good ones in Green Bay, Cincy, Indy and NY Giants. In the AFC North, I'd rate the 1-2 receiving tandems as follows: Cincy, Balt., Cleveland, Pitts.
If Ashon jeffrey of Chicago can stay healthy, he's going to be a terrific NFL receiver. He was fabulous in the SEC. His one drawback is he lacks top line speed, but he knows how to get open better than Gordon does, at least at this point.
Skeptical2013 said:
You're not a very nice person, are you? Yesterday I listed 19 teams with wide receiving tandems better than Gordon/Little going in to this season,
Where did you list them? In your mind? I didn't see them here.
...OK, never mind....somehow I overlooked that post. Not sure how I missed it.
even though I am hoping for improvement from Gordon/Little this year and hope they move up the list. They offer promise, but you still have to do it on the field of play.
For my money, the best 1-2 receiving punch is in Atlanta. Probably Denver second with Miami and Chicago behind them and then a second tier of good ones in Green Bay, Cincy, Indy and NY Giants. In the AFC North, I'd rate the 1-2 receiving tandems as follows: Cincy, Balt., Cleveland, Pitts.
If Ashon jeffrey of Chicago can stay healthy, he's going to be a terrific NFL receiver. He was fabulous in the SEC. His one drawback is he lacks top line speed, but he knows how to get open better than Gordon does, at least at this point.
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
Alshon Jeffrey was rated "Most likely to be a bust" when he was drafted. So far, nothing has changed that evaluation.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
But this question involves an entire WR corps, not just one guy
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
....or so little. Like I said about the Baltimore WR before: they lost their glue with Boldin gone. It is totally speculative if they will much good without him.
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013...either because he will be good, or because he will suck swamp water. Who knows?
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Chicago - Alshon Jeffery was a lot bigger than most CBs in the SEC. In the NFL they are all bigger. I realize you could say that about anyone joining the NFL, but that was the only attribute that really stood out for him. I still think I would rate them higher, based on the fact that you can put nearly anyone along side Brandon Marshall
KC - I agree that Bowe is currently better than everything that we have (albeit not by a whole lot like the Marshalls, Megatrons, Fitzgeralds, AJ80s of the world), but the fact remains that their #2 is Donnie Avery. I'll take ours.
Balt - Jacoby Jones may have been rated #83. That's after a couple of big plays in the SuperBowl, and he was the hot topic at the time. He was also rated much higher based on the added value of the being a return man. He is not that good of a receiver.
Philly - Agreed. Jackson and Maclin are head and shoulders better than what we have.
Miami - This is a toss up for me. Mike Wallace is fast, but lacks good route running. It has been working for him so I digress, I just think that Gordon can be equally as good this year. And then you have Hartline who had a phenomenal season last year vs Little who had a phenomenal second half of the season. I think I would give a slight edge based on previous production to the Phins, but we'll be close.
StL - Their WR roster is composed of mostly rookies and a few second and third year pros. I will take what the Browns have every day, and twice on Sundays.
SF - If we're talking before injury, for sure SF. If we're taking in the fact that Vernon Davis is basically a WR, for sure SF. If they sign Brandon Loyd for sure them. If we do not take into account any/all of these ifs, it's a toss up. There is a reason (a couple really) that Boldin only costed a 6th rounder, and it wasn't only because the Ravens would have had to cut him any ways. He's getting old and getting slow. I think he is great in that procession receiver role, but needs a number 1 ahead of him. Jenkins and Patton along with Manningham comprise an intriguing group of talent battling for that #2 spot might still be hurt, I'm not sure. If the two rooks perform like people think they can, a big if, then I think it is for sure a toss up, but they need one of those 2-3 to step up, otherwise I will take ours.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Chicago - Alshon Jeffery was a lot bigger than most CBs in the SEC. In the NFL they are all bigger. I realize you could say that about anyone joining the NFL, but that was the only attribute that really stood out for him. I still think I would rate them higher, based on the fact that you can put nearly anyone along side Brandon Marshall
KC - I agree that Bowe is currently better than everything that we have (albeit not by a whole lot like the Marshalls, Megatrons, Fitzgeralds, AJ80s of the world), but the fact remains that their #2 is Donnie Avery. I'll take ours.
Balt - Jacoby Jones may have been rated #83. That's after a couple of big plays in the SuperBowl, and he was the hot topic at the time. He was also rated much higher based on the added value of the being a return man. He is not that good of a receiver.
Philly - Agreed. Jackson and Maclin are head and shoulders better than what we have.
Miami - This is a toss up for me. Mike Wallace is fast, but lacks good route running. It has been working for him so I digress, I just think that Gordon can be equally as good this year. And then you have Hartline who had a phenomenal season last year vs Little who had a phenomenal second half of the season. I think I would give a slight edge based on previous production to the Phins, but we'll be close.
StL - Their WR roster is composed of mostly rookies and a few second and third year pros. I will take what the Browns have every day, and twice on Sundays.
SF - If we're talking before injury, for sure SF. If we're taking in the fact that Vernon Davis is basically a WR, for sure SF. If they sign Brandon Loyd for sure them. If we do not take into account any/all of these ifs, it's a toss up. There is a reason (a couple really) that Boldin only costed a 6th rounder, and it wasn't only because the Ravens would have had to cut him any ways. He's getting old and getting slow. I think he is great in that procession receiver role, but needs a number 1 ahead of him. Jenkins and Patton along with Manningham comprise an intriguing group of talent battling for that #2 spot might still be hurt, I'm not sure. If the two rooks perform like people think they can, a big if, then I think it is for sure a toss up, but they need one of those 2-3 to step up, otherwise I will take ours.
Chicago - Alshon Jeffery was a lot bigger than most CBs in the SEC. In the NFL they are all bigger. I realize you could say that about anyone joining the NFL, but that was the only attribute that really stood out for him. I still think I would rate them higher, based on the fact that you can put nearly anyone along side Brandon Marshall
KC - I agree that Bowe is currently better than everything that we have (albeit not by a whole lot like the Marshalls, Megatrons, Fitzgeralds, AJ80s of the world), but the fact remains that their #2 is Donnie Avery. I'll take ours.
Balt - Jacoby Jones may have been rated #83. That's after a couple of big plays in the SuperBowl, and he was the hot topic at the time. He was also rated much higher based on the added value of the being a return man. He is not that good of a receiver.
Philly - Agreed. Jackson and Maclin are head and shoulders better than what we have.
Miami - This is a toss up for me. Mike Wallace is fast, but lacks good route running. It has been working for him so I digress, I just think that Gordon can be equally as good this year. And then you have Hartline who had a phenomenal season last year vs Little who had a phenomenal second half of the season. I think I would give a slight edge based on previous production to the Phins, but we'll be close.
StL - Their WR roster is composed of mostly rookies and a few second and third year pros. I will take what the Browns have every day, and twice on Sundays.
SF - If we're talking before injury, for sure SF. If we're taking in the fact that Vernon Davis is basically a WR, for sure SF. If they sign Brandon Loyd for sure them. If we do not take into account any/all of these ifs, it's a toss up. There is a reason (a couple really) that Boldin only costed a 6th rounder, and it wasn't only because the Ravens would have had to cut him any ways. He's getting old and getting slow. I think he is great in that procession receiver role, but needs a number 1 ahead of him. Jenkins and Patton along with Manningham comprise an intriguing group of talent battling for that #2 spot might still be hurt, I'm not sure. If the two rooks perform like people think they can, a big if, then I think it is for sure a toss up, but they need one of those 2-3 to step up, otherwise I will take ours.
This ESPN writer for the NFC North picks Alshon Jeffrey as one of the top breakout performers int he divison for 2012 based on what he has seen in training camp this year vs. last. I think Jeffrey is going to have a good year if he stays reasonably healthy. Gordon has more speed than Jeffrey, though.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/56742/alshon-jeffery-harrison-smith-to-break-out
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Measuring wide receiver talent strictly by stats is like saying Joe Horn sucked before he left KC for a near HOF career in New Orleans, right? Or that Larry Fitzgerald really peaked a few years ago. They're just SO dependent on QB play and ours wasn't terribly good last year.
But 806 yards at a 16 clip is an excellent rookie year, especially given that his QB had a 72.0 passer rating and ranked 22nd out of 23 in passes over 20 yards. Gordon has only scratched the surface. If anybody looks at that guy on tape, you see a potential superstar. Greg Little lacks only the long speed but he's still a physical freak (27 reps, 41" vert, runs like a back).
You have to watch the players play at that position. And those are two guys without physical limitations. Rare size as a duo. And after reading that Weeden's looking really good and really comfortable, I'm getting excited for the most explosive offense we've seen since 2007.
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Another upside is we don't have to complain about the quality of our bookend tackles anymore. YAY !
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Josh Gordon is 22 and Little just turned 24. They will only get better.
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
uh, no. bowe sucks. he's just a beneficiary of being the only target on that team. on any other team he'd be the #3.
i'd take gordon or little any day over him.
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Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Based on what I read, Barnidge played much of the 2012 season but toward the end of the season only was in for about 12-14 snaps a game. He did miss the entire 2011 season.
But that raises the question: Why did we bother to sign a guy who not only is non-productive as a receiver, but has a history of injuries? Seems to me this is a throw away signing. Focus instead, this off season, should have been on signing a TE with some producivity, like Oakland's TE last season.
Didn't they sign like 3 TEs? You have Kellen Davis, Barnidge, Gronkowski, Tannahill, and Jordan. So, the answer to your question is: why not? They can have a half dozen TEs on the roster and see what they can do.
Also,note: Turner is somewhat of a TE guru.....so maybe he thinks more highly of this group than you do. I will trust his judgment more than a guy that does, what did someone call you....just a Madden junkie and fantasy league noob.
Didn't they sign like 3 TEs? You have Kellen Davis, Barnidge, Gronkowski, Tannahill, and Jordan. So, the answer to your question is: why not? They can have a half dozen TEs on the roster and see what they can do.
Also,note: Turner is somewhat of a TE guru.....so maybe he thinks more highly of this group than you do. I will trust his judgment more than a guy that does, what did someone call you....just a Madden junkie and fantasy league noob.
You've said this about every member of our FO and coaching staff.
Do you have any thoughts of your own? Or do you just blindly trust in whatever a person in power does?
You are probably the most vanilla person I've had the pleasure in never meeting.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
Alshon Jeffrey was rated "Most likely to be a bust" when he was drafted. So far, nothing has changed that evaluation.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
But this question involves an entire WR corps, not just one guy
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
....or so little. Like I said about the Baltimore WR before: they lost their glue with Boldin gone. It is totally speculative if they will much good without him.
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013...either because he will be good, or because he will suck swamp water. Who knows?
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
Alshon Jeffrey was rated "Most likely to be a bust" when he was drafted. So far, nothing has changed that evaluation.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
But this question involves an entire WR corps, not just one guy
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
....or so little. Like I said about the Baltimore WR before: they lost their glue with Boldin gone. It is totally speculative if they will much good without him.
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013...either because he will be good, or because he will suck swamp water. Who knows?
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Just like you overrate the Browns secondary, you underrate Jeffrey. Jeffrey is a real talent, a former all SEC player, who had some fine moments for the Bears last year and he's also on the "players who will break out in 2013" fantasty football list I cited the other day. It'll be interesting to see if he can stay with Gordon this season in the statistical categories.
Ravens receivers wil lbe fine.
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Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
I don't think Gordon will reach 80 catches. That's way too optimistic.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
uh, no. bowe sucks. he's just a beneficiary of being the only target on that team. on any other team he'd be the #3.
i'd take gordon or little any day over him.
uh, no. bowe sucks. he's just a beneficiary of being the only target on that team. on any other team he'd be the #3.
i'd take gordon or little any day over him.
That's interesting because Bowe was named the 65th best player in the NFL for 2013 by the players themselves in the in-depth NFL Network listing being featured heavily on NFL Network right now. They've identified players 41-100 on the list so far and I haven't heard Josh Gordon's name called, Clearly the players have a mich higher opinoin of Bowe than you do!
The only Browns player onthe list so far is Trent Richardson, at #71. I suspect Joe Thomas will make the list and maybe Joe Haden.
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Measuring wide receiver talent strictly by stats is like saying Joe Horn sucked before he left KC for a near HOF career in New Orleans, right? Or that Larry Fitzgerald really peaked a few years ago. They're just SO dependent on QB play and ours wasn't terribly good last year.
But 806 yards at a 16 clip is an excellent rookie year, especially given that his QB had a 72.0 passer rating and ranked 22nd out of 23 in passes over 20 yards. Gordon has only scratched the surface. If anybody looks at that guy on tape, you see a potential superstar. Greg Little lacks only the long speed but he's still a physical freak (27 reps, 41" vert, runs like a back).
You have to watch the players play at that position. And those are two guys without physical limitations. Rare size as a duo. And after reading that Weeden's looking really good and really comfortable, I'm getting excited for the most explosive offense we've seen since 2007.
Measuring wide receiver talent strictly by stats is like saying Joe Horn sucked before he left KC for a near HOF career in New Orleans, right? Or that Larry Fitzgerald really peaked a few years ago. They're just SO dependent on QB play and ours wasn't terribly good last year.
But 806 yards at a 16 clip is an excellent rookie year, especially given that his QB had a 72.0 passer rating and ranked 22nd out of 23 in passes over 20 yards. Gordon has only scratched the surface. If anybody looks at that guy on tape, you see a potential superstar. Greg Little lacks only the long speed but he's still a physical freak (27 reps, 41" vert, runs like a back).
You have to watch the players play at that position. And those are two guys without physical limitations. Rare size as a duo. And after reading that Weeden's looking really good and really comfortable, I'm getting excited for the most explosive offense we've seen since 2007.
I agree with you and Josh Gordon is a fine young talent who will get only better as he gains experience. It'll be fascinating to watch who will end their careers as the better player: Josh Gordon or Torey Smith.
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Another upside is we don't have to complain about the quality of our bookend tackles anymore. YAY !
Another upside is we don't have to complain about the quality of our bookend tackles anymore. YAY !
Man, isn't that the truth . Thank you Tom Heckert! And the Browns also have excellent depth now on the OL. As I have mentioned, keep your eyes on Chris Faulk once he regains his health because this kid would have been a first round draft pick if he hadn't been hurt early last season at LSU. I also think Gilkey has a chance to be a good player. Everyone is breathing down the neck of Shawn Lauvao.
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