Lombardi's Record
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Mike Lombardi is our GM, the man with overall responsibility on this team for talent acquisition. Let's see where he came from and how he has done. I am only looking at his NFL career here. He spent a few years as a coach/scout in college:
1984-1987 he was a scout for the 49ers. Not in control, only made suggestions.
During those years the 49ers did draft some outstanding talent: Guy McIntyre, Jerry Rice, Charles Haley, John Taylor, Harris Barton. If Lombardi had been the guy that had been responsible for choosing Jerry Rice and these other guys, don't you think we would have heard about that? I have never heard about it.
1987 -1991. Director or Pro Personnell for the Browns. This title I believe does not have him dealing with the draft, but with dealing with trades and "free agent" pickups. Though in those years FA wasn't like it was now. Free agency meant finding guys that have been cut that may be useful to your team.
If anyone can recall any blockbuster trades or "free agent" pickups made from 1987-1991, please let us know.
1992-1996 Director of Player Personnell for the Browns. Here he had overall control of the teams roster, including the draft. Here were his draft selections for the years he was in control of it:
1992
Tommy Vardell
Patrick Rowe
Bill Johnson
Gerald Dixon
Rico Smith
George Williams
Selwyn Jones
Tim Hill
Marcus Lowe
Augustin Olibia
Keithan McCant
Tim Simpson
1993
Steve Everitt
Dan Footman
Mike Caldwell
Herman Arvie
Rich McKenzie
Travis Hill
1994
Antonio Langham
Derrick Alexander
Romeo Brandiso
Isaac Booth
Robert Strait
Andre Hewitt
1995
Craig Powell
Eric Zeier
Tau Papua
Mike Miller
AC Tellison
FYI, not a single one of these players ever made a single Pro Bowl. The best players were a middle range WR in Alexander, a decent center in Everitt, and an average LB in Dixon.
So, this record kind of speaks for itself.
Of this group, Steve Everitt and Antonio Langham were decent football players. If you ever watched ESPN's "SEC Storied" series they have one episode about one of the greatest college games ever played -- Alabama vs. Florida -- where Langham made one of the most interceptions in college football history to win the game. Langham is a god in Alabama and it was interesting to see him on that program talk about the famous INT and his pro career, too . Langham was the top DB coming out of college that year but had some injuries and never quite achieved the potential everyone expected of him.
Skeptical2013 said:
Of this group, Steve Everitt and Antonio Langham were decent football players. If you ever watched ESPN's "SEC Storied" series they have one episode about one of the greatest college games ever played -- Alabama vs. Florida -- where Langham made one of the most interceptions in college football history to win the game. Langham is a god in Alabama and it was interesting to see him on that program talk about the famous INT and his pro career, too . Langham was the top DB coming out of college that year but had some injuries and never quite achieved the potential everyone expected of him.
While most Browns fans liked Langham..me too, and while he did some big things in Alabama, he was just an average guy here. That is an example of why you cannot get totally invested with a guy that had a big college career.
Being the BMOC in college don't mean bo diddly in the NFL.
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After leaving the Browns, Lombardi spent one year with the Eagles as Pro Personell Director...again having no draft connection
1998-2007 Senior Personnel Director. He was again in charge of the Raider entire roster....subject to the whims of Al Davis.
I those 10 years, assuming he was in charge only the following players were Pro Bowl selections:
Darrell Russell
Charles Woodson
Shane Lechler
Sebastian Janikowsi
Zach Miller
Nnamdi Asomguha
Roderick Coleman
so, almost one third of that group was a punter and a kicker. Five Pro Bowl players drafted in 10 years at the helm. Woodson was a semi-no-brainer. The others, OK.
But he also made these choices, just in his first rounds:
Matt Stinchcomb
Derrick Gibson
Phillip Bucanon
Robert Gallery
Fabian Washington
Jamarcus Russell.
Some of these were outright busts. Others decidedly mediocre or underachievers.
So, bottom line: The track record of our man in charge is, in my opinion, quite, quite bad. And it is no wonder he had to spend 5 years in the media. Who would hire someone with that poor of a track record?
Well, Mr. Joseph Banner, with the blessings of his owner.
It does not instill in one a sense of optimism. We can only hope that the years of sitting back and observing have improved this guy's eye for talent. But I have no great expectations that that is the case.
Thinking about the present I, like many others, was willing to say, hey, Lombardi may have learned some things over the years as he gained maturity and experience. The draft picks the Browns made you can argue about, but they are not horrible. But what really dismayed me was the trading of the 4th and 5th rounders. There are different schools of thought on that strategy, I understand, but I would have preferred using those picks to acquire talent now that I could use in 2013 to develop them in a rebuilding year, rather than wasting another year to use those picks in 2014. I really don't know if the Browns will get any better players in 2014 than they could have gotten in the draft this year. Now, people say they will use those two extra picks to move up and get a great QB.
But what happens if Weeden has a good year? That's not inconceivable. I think Weeden is going to have chip on his shoulder coming in to this season after the way he was savaged both locally and natoinally by the media and the fans. When you watched some of Weeden's college games, this guy did get it done in the clutch in some really big games. He did not display that ability with the Browns last year, to say the least. But I wouldn't give up on Brandon and if he passes muster in 2013 that makes getting a #1 QB less of an urgency. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Skeptical2013 said:
Thinking about the present I, like many others, was willing to say, hey, Lombardi may have learned some things over the years as he gained maturity and experience. The draft picks the Browns made you can argue about, but they are not horrible. But what really dismayed me was the trading of the 4th and 5th rounders. There are different schools of thought on that strategy, I understand, but I would have preferred using those picks to acquire talent now that I could use in 2013 to develop them in a rebuilding year, rather than wasting another year to use those picks in 2014. I really don't know if the Browns will get any better players in 2014 than they could have gotten in the draft this year. Now, people say they will use those two extra picks to move up and get a great QB.
Yea, sure, we could have used those picks to get guys like Herman Arvie and Romeo Brandison.
And get a great QB? Jamarcus Russell was #1 overall, Ryan Leaf #2. Who knows if you are going to get a good QB.
Where in the above posts have you seen where Mike Lombardi has ever had a hand in drafting even a mediocre QB?
I mean, Eric Zeier and Jamarcus Russell.
But what happens if Weeden has a good year? That's not inconceivable. I think Weeden is going to have chip on his shoulder coming in to this season after the way he was savaged both locally and natoinally by the media and the fans. When you watched some of Weeden's college games, this guy did get it done in the clutch in some really big games. He did not display that ability with the Browns last year, to say the least. But I wouldn't give up on Brandon and if he passes muster in 2013 that makes getting a #1 QB less of an urgency. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
BW3 damned well better work out because from all evidence having Lombardi having a say in the selection of a QB could be fucking disastrous.
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I like him. I dig that he's into analytics because I'm a nerd for that stuff. Like that he has a clear sense of what's going on in the league today, what wins ballgames. Like that he's popular with his colleagues who say he's a good guy, easy to work with, first in and last out.
But for the record: Lombardi has basically never had final word. Al Davis decided who the Raiders drafted... and I believe it was Ernie Accorsi who was the Browns GM during those years?
For what it's worth, he has a lot of fans, obviously including Banner and Belicheck. Banners gives a lot of credit to Lombardi for building those Eagles teams.
Oh, listing Russell as a Lombardi pick has been shot down repeatedly, including by Pluto. He had zero involvement in that draft, was on his way out the door. And everybody who ran under a 4.4 was Al Davis' pick, including Fabian Washington.
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I'll add this: Lombardi was part of a sequence of drafts for the Browns that were horrible indeed and contributed to the Browns leaving town. I really had no idea who did what for the Browns back then, to be honest, but I figured it out later. And also that he never had final word. Really never has.
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I like him. I dig that he's into analytics because I'm a nerd for that stuff. Like that he has a clear sense of what's going on in the league today, what wins ballgames. Like that he's popular with his colleagues who say he's a good guy, easy to work with, first in and last out.
But for the record: Lombardi has basically never had final word. Al Davis decided who the Raiders drafted... and I believe it was Ernie Accorsi who was the Browns GM during those years?
For what it's worth, he has a lot of fans, obviously including Banner and Belicheck. Banners gives a lot of credit to Lombardi for building those Eagles teams.
Oh, listing Russell as a Lombardi pick has been shot down repeatedly, including by Pluto. He had zero involvement in that draft, was on his way out the door. And everybody who ran under a 4.4 was Al Davis' pick, including Fabian Washington.
I like him. I dig that he's into analytics because I'm a nerd for that stuff. Like that he has a clear sense of what's going on in the league today, what wins ballgames. Like that he's popular with his colleagues who say he's a good guy, easy to work with, first in and last out.
But for the record: Lombardi has basically never had final word. Al Davis decided who the Raiders drafted... and I believe it was Ernie Accorsi who was the Browns GM during those years?
For what it's worth, he has a lot of fans, obviously including Banner and Belicheck. Banners gives a lot of credit to Lombardi for building those Eagles teams.
Oh, listing Russell as a Lombardi pick has been shot down repeatedly, including by Pluto. He had zero involvement in that draft, was on his way out the door. And everybody who ran under a 4.4 was Al Davis' pick, including Fabian Washington.
Yes, we do need to cut Lombadi some slack over J. Russell. But to imply he had minimal influence on the Raiders draft selections is untrue.
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I like him. I dig that he's into analytics because I'm a nerd for that stuff. Like that he has a clear sense of what's going on in the league today, what wins ballgames. Like that he's popular with his colleagues who say he's a good guy, easy to work with, first in and last out.
But for the record: Lombardi has basically never had final word. Al Davis decided who the Raiders drafted... and I believe it was Ernie Accorsi who was the Browns GM during those years?
For what it's worth, he has a lot of fans, obviously including Banner and Belicheck. Banners gives a lot of credit to Lombardi for building those Eagles teams.
Oh, listing Russell as a Lombardi pick has been shot down repeatedly, including by Pluto. He had zero involvement in that draft, was on his way out the door. And everybody who ran under a 4.4 was Al Davis' pick, including Fabian Washington.
Yes, we do need to cut Lombadi some slack over J. Russell. But to imply he had minimal influence on the Raiders draft selections is untrue.
Didn't say he had minimal influence. I said Al Davis made all final decisions and we know he doesn't delegate. And I just wanted to set the record straight on J-Fat.
Skeptical2013 said:
Yes, we do need to cut Lombadi some slack over J. Russell. But to imply he had minimal influence on the Raiders draft selections is untrue.
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I think it can't be understated how much control Al Davis had on the Raiders. For better or worse, I honestly believe Lombardi was around with Oakland for so long because he was a yes man to big Al.
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Honestly, that's a much better case to make, Skeptical. It's always fascinated me that Lombardi is really respected around the league (and I do like his general philosophies)... but he's never really been given the keys.
Heckert made some nice finds but I just don't agree with his "vision" of team building. It's gonna take one helluva lot to make sense of trading up to get a back at #3 overall in a passing league. They get hurt (check) and they're easily found all over the draft (check).
You just need to run the ball well enough to run out the clock and hold a lead. That's really it. Being good on the ground is better than being bad but not at any kind of premium price of dollars or draft picks. I love what the Packers did in the last draft.
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everyone knows Davis made all the decisions.
Same with jerry jones. since jimmy Johnson left jerry has done the drafting and well the proof is in the pudding
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Honestly, that's a much better case to make, Skeptical. It's always fascinated me that Lombardi is really respected around the league (and I do like his general philosophies)... but he's never really been given the keys.
Heckert made some nice finds but I just don't agree with his "vision" of team building. It's gonna take one helluva lot to make sense of trading up to get a back at #3 overall in a passing league. They get hurt (check) and they're easily found all over the draft (check).
You just need to run the ball well enough to run out the clock and hold a lead. That's really it. Being good on the ground is better than being bad but not at any kind of premium price of dollars or draft picks. I love what the Packers did in the last draft.
Honestly, that's a much better case to make, Skeptical. It's always fascinated me that Lombardi is really respected around the league (and I do like his general philosophies)... but he's never really been given the keys.
Heckert made some nice finds but I just don't agree with his "vision" of team building. It's gonna take one helluva lot to make sense of trading up to get a back at #3 overall in a passing league. They get hurt (check) and they're easily found all over the draft (check).
You just need to run the ball well enough to run out the clock and hold a lead. That's really it. Being good on the ground is better than being bad but not at any kind of premium price of dollars or draft picks. I love what the Packers did in the last draft.
Nice, thoughtful post.
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If Lombardi was so respected why was he not even given a sniff for a job for 5 years. Haslam and Banner
said everyone they talked to said "if you have a chance to hire Mike Lombardi hire him". Where were these
experts for 5 years. Why was Lombardi never even mentioned for a GM job? His track record speaks for
itself. He will be out of a job when Haslam is forced to sell. Hopefully he does not do much damage until
then.
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Well, he had a job and I've read that he was really into his family and didn't want to move just anywhere to do just anything. People say the same about Mayock, that he can't be a genius if nobody's turning over their franchise to him... but you make a lot of money in television and you don't have to leave home all the time. And it has been suggested that Lombardi has turned away jobs.
The people who dig him say he's undergone a lot of growth and development as a person and as a personnel guy, embracing the ways the league has changed and what that means as far as building a franchise to last. He's also more fun to be around, to shoot the shit and talk shop. There were a lot of young guns in and around the Browns at that time and most of them needed to grow up, including Belicheck.
Everything we've heard about him since he joined the team has supported that. No sense in committing to hating a guy, right? Let's see how it plays out at least.
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Honestly, that's a much better case to make, Skeptical. It's always fascinated me that Lombardi is really respected around the league (and I do like his general philosophies)... but he's never really been given the keys.
Heckert made some nice finds but I just don't agree with his "vision" of team building. It's gonna take one helluva lot to make sense of trading up to get a back at #3 overall in a passing league. They get hurt (check) and they're easily found all over the draft (check).
You just need to run the ball well enough to run out the clock and hold a lead. That's really it. Being good on the ground is better than being bad but not at any kind of premium price of dollars or draft picks. I love what the Packers did in the last draft.
Nice, thoughtful post.
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I like him. I dig that he's into analytics because I'm a nerd for that stuff. Like that he has a clear sense of what's going on in the league today, what wins ballgames. Like that he's popular with his colleagues who say he's a good guy, easy to work with, first in and last out.
But for the record: Lombardi has basically never had final word. Al Davis decided who the Raiders drafted... and I believe it was Ernie Accorsi who was the Browns GM during those years?
For what it's worth, he has a lot of fans, obviously including Banner and Belicheck. Banners gives a lot of credit to Lombardi for building those Eagles teams.
Oh, listing Russell as a Lombardi pick has been shot down repeatedly, including by Pluto. He had zero involvement in that draft, was on his way out the door. And everybody who ran under a 4.4 was Al Davis' pick, including Fabian Washington.
I like him. I dig that he's into analytics because I'm a nerd for that stuff. Like that he has a clear sense of what's going on in the league today, what wins ballgames. Like that he's popular with his colleagues who say he's a good guy, easy to work with, first in and last out.
But for the record: Lombardi has basically never had final word. Al Davis decided who the Raiders drafted... and I believe it was Ernie Accorsi who was the Browns GM during those years?
For what it's worth, he has a lot of fans, obviously including Banner and Belicheck. Banners gives a lot of credit to Lombardi for building those Eagles teams.
Oh, listing Russell as a Lombardi pick has been shot down repeatedly, including by Pluto. He had zero involvement in that draft, was on his way out the door. And everybody who ran under a 4.4 was Al Davis' pick, including Fabian Washington.
As I pointed out, he had control of the draft....subject to the whims of Al Davis. It was not my intent to understate Davis's whims. Still, these guys stand as part of Lombardi's record...be it that he had final say or not.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Don't be surprised if Shamarko Thomas is another NFL player who haunts Lombardi.
Thomas is the guy the Steelers took when they traded for the Browns' 4th round pick. Never trade with your bitter rivals and this could be a reason why.
Thomas is undersized but a human dynamo. He ran the fastest 40 at the Combine of any safety and he outbenched several well known linebackes, including Ziggy Ansah.
It won't surprise me at all if this kid becomes a really good player and plays like a second round draft choice, not a 4th. We all know he'll probably play his best games against the Browns. Thomas played strong safety in college but the Steelers are grooming him for the free safety role. It'll be interesting to see who has the better career, Thomas Gipson or the Browns.
Here's an article about Thomas:
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/05/13/pittsburgh-steelers-draft-breaking-down-shamarko-thomas/
Can we have this post deleted? And any others where he brings up the DB in an inappropriate place in a thread?
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Skeptical2013 said:
Don't be surprised if Shamarko Thomas is another NFL player who haunts Lombardi.
Thomas is the guy the Steelers took when they traded for the Browns' 4th round pick. Never trade with your bitter rivals and this could be a reason why.
Thomas is undersized but a human dynamo. He ran the fastest 40 at the Combine of any safety and he outbenched several well known linebackes, including Ziggy Ansah.
It won't surprise me at all if this kid becomes a really good player and plays like a second round draft choice, not a 4th. We all know he'll probably play his best games against the Browns. Thomas played strong safety in college but the Steelers are grooming him for the free safety role. It'll be interesting to see who has the better career, Thomas Gipson or the Browns.
Here's an article about Thomas:
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/05/13/pittsburgh-steelers-draft-breaking-down-shamarko-thomas/
Can we have this post deleted? And any others where he brings up the DB in an inappropriate place in a thread?
Can we have this post deleted? And any others where he brings up the DB in an inappropriate place in a thread?
Gotta love how you, Zombo and your little band try to control content on this board. We see this kind of thing happening in China, Venezuela, Iran and other parts of the Middle East and it eventually fails or will fail.
BTW, the post I made is about Mike Lombardi, which this thread is about. Lombardi is the one who made the historically bad decision to trade with the Browns' fierecest rival and give them the opportunity to fill a need by drafting Shamarko Thomas, a guy who may haunt this franchise for many years to come.
Meanwhile, a lot of your posts have nothing to do with Browns football at all (although I don't care). But if you adere to hyour personal control standards, maybe you should be the one calling for your own posts to be deleted!
Also gotta love your little game of hacking in to my board name. I truly feel sorry for you and your silly and immature little hoard.
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Can we have this post deleted? And any others where he brings up the DB in an inappropriate place in a thread?
Gotta love how you, Zombo and your little band try to control content on this board. We see this kind of thing happening in China, Venezuela, Iran and other parts of the Middle East and it eventually fails or will fail.
BTW, the post I made is about Mike Lombardi, which this thread is about. Lombardi is the one who made the historically bad decision to trade with the Browns' fierecest rival and give them the opportunity to fill a need by drafting Shamarko Thomas, a guy who may haunt this franchise for many years to come.
Meanwhile, a lot of your posts have nothing to do with Browns football at all (although I don't care). But if you adere to hyour personal control standards, maybe you should be the one calling for your own posts to be deleted!
Also gotta love your little game of hacking in to my board name. I truly feel sorry for you and your silly and immature little hoard.
SkepticalOne said:
Gotta love how you, Zombo and your little band try to control content on this board. We see this kind of thing happening in China, Venezuela, Iran and other parts of the Middle East and it eventually fails or will fail.
BTW, the post I made is about Mike Lombardi, which this thread is about. Lombardi is the one who made the historically bad decision to trade with the Browns' fierecest rival and give them the opportunity to fill a need by drafting Shamarko Thomas, a guy who may haunt this franchise for many years to come.
Meanwhile, a lot of your posts have nothing to do with Browns football at all (although I don't care). But if you adere to hyour personal control standards, maybe you should be the one calling for your own posts to be deleted!
Also gotta love your little game of hacking in to my board name. I truly feel sorry for you and your silly and immature little hoard.
Lets get this straight.....you can do anything you want.....but be boring.
And you have become the ultimate bore. The valid points you have to make, if any, are overwhelmed by the drone. You have become like fingernails on a blackboard.
I complained about your post because it had not one goddamn thing to do with the subject of the thread. This constant obsession of yours over the backfield, and your attempt to bring every single subject matter that is on this board back to that subject is why I complained.
What I cannot fathom is if anyone in your "real life" can stand to be around you if you are this neurotic and obsessed over a single subject.
So, why don't you talk some football,...or anything else (yes, I do talk about a lot that is not just Browns) without having every single post be about your obsession. Then maybe some of us will be able to tolerate you.
And FYI, I have nothing to do with your screen name. I am not an administrator of this board and have no control over anything other than what I type on here.
Talk to Z or Stan or Hoorta.
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