TRICH traded to colts
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I posted this on another T-Rich thread so it's probably been missed.
I think you all might want to see a few examples of our OL Run Blocking :
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
Here, if this posts correctly you should see something interesting:
Followed by play result:
There is more analysis and pictures on the link.
I saw that. It proves what I've been saying since March of last year...Richardson is an average back in a beast body.
I'm sure thee were multiple examples of this. But our line is still tied for last in the league as of yesterday (per CBS Sports Radio) and there have also been examples of bad run blocking as well.
Greco and Lauvao need time together starting and the line needs to jell. OL is a cohesive unit, plug and play replacements rarely get the job done.
But our line is still tied for last in the league as of yesterday (per CBS Sports Radio) and there have also been examples of bad run blocking as well.
Who'd we tie with? And yes, there's been bad run blocking as well. I documented a couple in my breakdown. As with the pass blocking most of the bad run blocking is somehow Cousins related.
Zombo said:
Zombo.com
Freaking great site... made me feel very "Welcome"... and you even have T-shirts...
http://www.15footstick.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=EZCMS&file=index&menu=14&page_id=6
It's a shame we couldn't have gotten Andy Reid for him. Pretty amazing what the right coaching staff can do in the NFL. KC 3-0
You can have Andy... I'll take Chud and Alex Smith... I'll even throw in Wheezy.
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Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
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PM me...face value is $290 each and I can meet you at the Gander Mtn in Twinsburg anytime this weekend.
Club seats for the thurs. Night Buffalo game should be a great game...their starters against our practice squad
Oh...and bring cash...I'm old school too
I'm leaving tomorrow for Pittsburgh to see my daughter. Pirates games Saturday & Sunday and the company she works for has a box forSunday's Steeler game I can't believe I'll be there to watch the squeelers raise their record to 0-3. I have to find someone to go to the Bills game as my wife is a Surgical Nurse and is on call Tues Wed and Thurs nights... I live 120 miles away so any pickup would have to be game day
I live 120 miles away so any pickup would have to be game day
funny how things work out that way.
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no i don't think he's a troll.
i think he's the funniest thing since shit hit a windshield with no wiper blades.
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I also believe they never planned to let Weeden start this year. The plan was to let Hoyer start all along. Two things can happen. Hoyer plays good and they decide they dont need to draft a franchise qb next year. Which makes the TRich trade pointless, or Hoyer is bad and they have to backtrack and name Weeden the starter again.
Two things can happen. Hoyer plays good and they decide they dont need to draft a franchise qb next year. Which makes the TRich trade pointless, or Hoyer is bad and they have to backtrack and name Weeden the starter again.
What im saying doesnt effect if they draft a qb, but neither did trading Richardson. If Hoyer goes out and wins 5 games and Browns get 5th pick. Do they still get the franchise qb? If your sitting behind Jax, Oak, Tb, and Min do you still get the franchise qb? This trade had no effect on the Browns getting a franchise qb.
Compare the underlined. Pick one...
If 5th pick does not put us in position for their guy, then the TR trade gave them more ammo to get a trade done. So it does "have an effect".
If Hoyer turns out to be the answer (he won't be IMO), then we have a late-ish #1 for other needs.
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Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
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I can see why you would think that, and I'm inclined to agree with you in regards to fatso! At any rate, I wouldn't say a decade! With the right personnel in the front office, and the way the NFL is set up, teams can and do go from worst to first relatively quicky. What remains to be seen is do we in fact have the right personnel this time? Time will tell. Though I wasn't a fan of bringing in Lombardi.
So right! Look at KC
So right! Look at KC
Absolutely! Now it's still early, but they've already exceeded their win total from last year! I think Chud can be a good coach, but why didn't Banner pursue Andy Reid to coach this team? Why didn't they grab Alex Smith in free agency? I would have been ALL OVER that!
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Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
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Okay, after the initial shock has worn off, and I've had a chance to listen to quite a few "experts" say that this is actually a better trade for the Browns, I'm sort of coming around on this trade. Here's why I like and don't like it ...
Reasons why I don't like it:
1) The obvious reason ... here we are hitting the "reset" button just 2-week into another season and we've given up on a top 3 pick just 17 games into his career. For us fans, that have to deal with a reset every 2-3 years, it would be nice if we just STUCK with something for a few years, and actually give it a chance to work.
2) We essentially used a 2012 #3 pick, a 4th rounder, 5th rounder and 7th rounder to trade DOWN to a #20'ish pick in the 2014 draft. And since it's happened so close to the actual draft, it feels a lot like hearing "There has been a trade" on Draft Day, and finding out that this was the trade we made. We're pretty much throwing up the white flag here and saying, "Yup ... we screwed up the 2012 draft royally"
Reasons why I DO like it:
1) We essentially screwed up the 2012 draft royally. We gave up three later picks to move up a few slots and take a RB in a QB-controlled league, then over-drafted a 29 year old QB in the late first round. The Front Office was pretty much screaming, "we've got one year left to prove ourselves before we get canned, so we're just going to go all-out in trying to build instant offense". So we ended up with an over-drafted RB, that we're trying to fit into a league that wants you to pass the ball 50+ times a game, and a rookie quarterback that's older than Aaron Rodgers.
2) You don't win Super Bowls with franchise runningbacks! Seriously, who was the last franchise-type RB to win one? The two biggest "Franchise-type" RBs of the last 10 years are so are Peterson and LT, and they couldn't even make it to the Super Bowl. LT came the closest, and that was because Philip Rivers had become a franchise-type QB by then. I really didn't like the TR pick back when we made it. Not because I didn't like TR, but because i didn't want us to build an offense around a RB.
3) Trent was starting to get William Green Disease already, and is a potential bust. On top of the 3.5 YPC/65 yards per game stats that have been tossed out there already, you could sort of see hesitation in Trent's running already. He wasn't hitting creases. He wasn't taking what there was and squeezing out 4 yards with momentum. He was dancing around and waiting for big holes to open up. This is what Green used to do. Dance in the backfield and wait for some giant hole to open up, rather than hit he hole that was there and squeeze out a few yards just by moving his weight forward. Even when he did get the holes, he didn't seem like he could burst through to the second level or get loose.
4) Trent was already starting to be a bit "injury prone". Not much to say here, but he was already showing signs that he wasn't as durable as we were hoping.
5) RBs are replaceable and have short shelf-lives anyway. Of the top 20 rushing leaders last year, only about a third were drafted in the first round. Of the top 20 QBs, only Brady, Romo and Fitzpatrick were draft later than the first round or very early 2nd round. It's just a QB driven league. Of the top 20 rushers, only AP had a QB that WASN'T as equally good (or better) and still made the playoffs.
6) We got something of value back. This is what the pundits are talking about. Rather than sit on a #3 pick and HOPING he turns into Adrian Peterson in a league that needs QBs not RBs, we're taking the bold move of cutting our losses while we can still get something of value back. If we were to wait till the end of the year, or even another season or two ... it's doubtful we get a first round pick for a guy that's averaging 3.5 YPC and seems to be prone to injury. Now we've got two first rounders, it what is supposed to be a pretty strong draft. Honestly though, if TR continues to do in Indy what he was doing here, what do you think his trade value becomes? What if he picks up another major injury?
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So right! Look at KC
Absolutely! Now it's still early, but they've already exceeded their win total from last year! I think Chud can be a good coach, but why didn't Banner pursue Andy Reid to coach this team? Why didn't they grab Alex Smith in free agency? I would have been ALL OVER that!
Absolutely! Now it's still early, but they've already exceeded their win total from last year! I think Chud can be a good coach, but why didn't Banner pursue Andy Reid to coach this team? Why didn't they grab Alex Smith in free agency? I would have been ALL OVER that!
Alex Smith wasn't a free agent. The Chiefs and Andy Reid traded for him. I wouldn't have pursued Andy Reid...he looked so overdone in Philly the last few years I didn't think he would be a good choice. The other thing to keep in mind in KC, they won 2 games last year with 6 pro bowlers on the roster. They were truly only a QB away from being fairly decent.
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Good Morning Browns fans
I'm a Jacksonville Jaguar fan but follow every team in the NFL closely, I know this has been discussed at nauseam but you guys pulled off a heck of trade netting a first round pick for Trent Richardson. It was a mistake to draft Trent 3rd overall to begin with as a RB has to have a rare combination of size, speed, vision, lateral agility, power, and quickness (an Adrian Peterson clone) to warrant being taken so high, Trent never possessed those elite traits for the Browns (Mike Holmgren and Co) to make such a pick.
I'm also not buying the Indianapolis Colts hype, they are more than a RB away from being considered a legit contender, that team can easily be 0-2 right now and will be 1-2 after this week’s game against San Francisco. I watch the Colts a lot and that is a team that doesn't win at the line of scrimmage on the offensive or defensive side of the ball, and because of that I don't believe they'll win more than 7 games this year. The Browns have a legit chance of having 2 picks in the top 10 in the 2014 NFL draft, a draft that is loaded at the front end with elite QB and pass rushing prospects. Your team is merely a competent QB away from being a legit contender; I like the Browns chance of finding one next year. Both of our organizations have struggled for an extremely long time, but it finally looks like there are better days ahead for both of us.
Good Morning Browns fans
Your team is merely a competent QB away from being a legit contender; I like the Browns chance of finding one next year. Both of our organizations have struggled for an extremely long time, but it finally looks like there are better days ahead for both of us.
Morning...
Agreed with most of post, but we are more than a "competant QB" away... and we know it. Without upgrades on O-line and WR we are a great QB away.
Also, excuse me, but you came late to the party in '94... and with a sweetheart deal to boot. We have more suffering in a pinky than you have in your entire body.
But thanks anyway... and don't take this the wrong way, but...
... your Jags' helmets are FUGLY... What's up with the half-flat/ half-gloss two-tone look?
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Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
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I wonder if SF would have taken TR for Alex Smith... and maybe have thrown in a pick (2nd? 3rd?)...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
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I wonder if SF would have taken TR for Alex Smith... and maybe have thrown in a pick (2nd? 3rd?)...
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Good Morning Browns fans
Your team is merely a competent QB away from being a legit contender; I like the Browns chance of finding one next year. Both of our organizations have struggled for an extremely long time, but it finally looks like there are better days ahead for both of us.
Morning...
Agreed with most of post, but we are more than a "competant QB" away... and we know it. Without upgrades on O-line and WR we are a great QB away.
Also, excuse me, but you came late to the party in '94... and with a sweetheart deal to boot. We have more suffering in a pinky than you have in your entire body.
But thanks anyway... and don't take this the wrong way, but...
... your Jags' helmets are FUGLY... What's up with the half-flat/ half-gloss two-tone look?
Morning...
Agreed with most of post, but we are more than a "competant QB" away... and we know it. Without upgrades on O-line and WR we are a great QB away.
Also, excuse me, but you came late to the party in '94... and with a sweetheart deal to boot. We have more suffering in a pinky than you have in your entire body.
But thanks anyway... and don't take this the wrong way, but...
... your Jags' helmets are FUGLY... What's up with the half-flat/ half-gloss two-tone look?
Haha none taken, I'm not a huge fan of the helmets but hopefully winning will help. In regards to your offensive line, there aren't many teams in the NFL that have good offensive lines; I believe yours is good enough to compete. I do agree that with the WR position, you can use another dynamic talent on the outside or in the slot, but you're not in bad shape right now with what you have. You guys will probably go QB/WR or QB/OL with your first two picks in the 2014 NFL draft, and the QB's at the top end of the draft are definitely good enough to make an immediate impact in this league,
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Point taken... like I said... I was dreaming while watching last nite's game. Then again he's a 30 yo RB with an injury history. TR would have made a heck of a near-term back up/ long-term heir apparent... Oh well...
And I was simultaneously thankful Chip Kelly "used us" rather than joined us. I had this epiphany that a pace of play that works with 20 yo's won't necessarily work with 30 yo's. Then there's that whole read offense thing that I give another two seasons to fizzle.
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It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
Actually not, but thanks for giving us reasons for optimism. Without Richardson, we have no running game to speak of, Greg Little has been the reincarnation of Braylon Edwards this year, Cousins positively stinks @ RG, and we need a decent corner to compliment Haden- Skrine is more of a nickel back type. a decent saftey opposite Ward wouldn't hurt either. Yes, I know every team has holes somewhere.
Sure, we're going QB shopping next year- problem is the Natives are getting mighty restless. Down the road this trade might come out golden, but it's not going to help us much this year. Add in Lombardi has to prove he can do better than drafting guys like Robert Gallery. He has about one stud pick in his 20 year draft resume- Namdi Asomugah.
See you in December for the Bridgewater Bowl.
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We are in a lose-lose.
1. If Hoyer is a franchise QB, there was no need to deal Trent.
2. If Hoyer lays a turd, then Lombardi looks like an idiot (for blowing Hoyer as much as he has), and he's absolutely not the guy I want looking for and drafting our franchise QB in April.
3. If Hoyer is just ok, then he plays well enough to eek us out 5-6 wins and out of the running for a top QB in the draft. Nobody is taking just our extra (late) first rounder to move up 5-6 slots to the #1 pick.
Wish this move happened before or after the season.
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Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
This draft could be loaded with 'not-quite-Andrew-Luck' calibre QBs. I feel like unless the FO fall in love with one of them, we stay where we are (at 3-6) and take whoever's there, then just BPA for a few picks.
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