TRICH traded to colts
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Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
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I can see why you would think that, and I'm inclined to agree with you in regards to fatso! At any rate, I wouldn't say a decade! With the right personnel in the front office, and the way the NFL is set up, teams can and do go from worst to first relatively quicky. What remains to be seen is do we in fact have the right personnel this time? Time will tell. Though I wasn't a fan of bringing in Lombardi.
So right! Look at KC
So right! Look at KC
Absolutely! Now it's still early, but they've already exceeded their win total from last year! I think Chud can be a good coach, but why didn't Banner pursue Andy Reid to coach this team? Why didn't they grab Alex Smith in free agency? I would have been ALL OVER that!
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Someone new coming on here, posting positive things about the browns, saying we got a good deal for Richardson - must be a troll, right?
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
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Okay, after the initial shock has worn off, and I've had a chance to listen to quite a few "experts" say that this is actually a better trade for the Browns, I'm sort of coming around on this trade. Here's why I like and don't like it ...
Reasons why I don't like it:
1) The obvious reason ... here we are hitting the "reset" button just 2-week into another season and we've given up on a top 3 pick just 17 games into his career. For us fans, that have to deal with a reset every 2-3 years, it would be nice if we just STUCK with something for a few years, and actually give it a chance to work.
2) We essentially used a 2012 #3 pick, a 4th rounder, 5th rounder and 7th rounder to trade DOWN to a #20'ish pick in the 2014 draft. And since it's happened so close to the actual draft, it feels a lot like hearing "There has been a trade" on Draft Day, and finding out that this was the trade we made. We're pretty much throwing up the white flag here and saying, "Yup ... we screwed up the 2012 draft royally"
Reasons why I DO like it:
1) We essentially screwed up the 2012 draft royally. We gave up three later picks to move up a few slots and take a RB in a QB-controlled league, then over-drafted a 29 year old QB in the late first round. The Front Office was pretty much screaming, "we've got one year left to prove ourselves before we get canned, so we're just going to go all-out in trying to build instant offense". So we ended up with an over-drafted RB, that we're trying to fit into a league that wants you to pass the ball 50+ times a game, and a rookie quarterback that's older than Aaron Rodgers.
2) You don't win Super Bowls with franchise runningbacks! Seriously, who was the last franchise-type RB to win one? The two biggest "Franchise-type" RBs of the last 10 years are so are Peterson and LT, and they couldn't even make it to the Super Bowl. LT came the closest, and that was because Philip Rivers had become a franchise-type QB by then. I really didn't like the TR pick back when we made it. Not because I didn't like TR, but because i didn't want us to build an offense around a RB.
3) Trent was starting to get William Green Disease already, and is a potential bust. On top of the 3.5 YPC/65 yards per game stats that have been tossed out there already, you could sort of see hesitation in Trent's running already. He wasn't hitting creases. He wasn't taking what there was and squeezing out 4 yards with momentum. He was dancing around and waiting for big holes to open up. This is what Green used to do. Dance in the backfield and wait for some giant hole to open up, rather than hit he hole that was there and squeeze out a few yards just by moving his weight forward. Even when he did get the holes, he didn't seem like he could burst through to the second level or get loose.
4) Trent was already starting to be a bit "injury prone". Not much to say here, but he was already showing signs that he wasn't as durable as we were hoping.
5) RBs are replaceable and have short shelf-lives anyway. Of the top 20 rushing leaders last year, only about a third were drafted in the first round. Of the top 20 QBs, only Brady, Romo and Fitzpatrick were draft later than the first round or very early 2nd round. It's just a QB driven league. Of the top 20 rushers, only AP had a QB that WASN'T as equally good (or better) and still made the playoffs.
6) We got something of value back. This is what the pundits are talking about. Rather than sit on a #3 pick and HOPING he turns into Adrian Peterson in a league that needs QBs not RBs, we're taking the bold move of cutting our losses while we can still get something of value back. If we were to wait till the end of the year, or even another season or two ... it's doubtful we get a first round pick for a guy that's averaging 3.5 YPC and seems to be prone to injury. Now we've got two first rounders, it what is supposed to be a pretty strong draft. Honestly though, if TR continues to do in Indy what he was doing here, what do you think his trade value becomes? What if he picks up another major injury?
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So right! Look at KC
Absolutely! Now it's still early, but they've already exceeded their win total from last year! I think Chud can be a good coach, but why didn't Banner pursue Andy Reid to coach this team? Why didn't they grab Alex Smith in free agency? I would have been ALL OVER that!
Absolutely! Now it's still early, but they've already exceeded their win total from last year! I think Chud can be a good coach, but why didn't Banner pursue Andy Reid to coach this team? Why didn't they grab Alex Smith in free agency? I would have been ALL OVER that!
Alex Smith wasn't a free agent. The Chiefs and Andy Reid traded for him. I wouldn't have pursued Andy Reid...he looked so overdone in Philly the last few years I didn't think he would be a good choice. The other thing to keep in mind in KC, they won 2 games last year with 6 pro bowlers on the roster. They were truly only a QB away from being fairly decent.
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Good Morning Browns fans
I'm a Jacksonville Jaguar fan but follow every team in the NFL closely, I know this has been discussed at nauseam but you guys pulled off a heck of trade netting a first round pick for Trent Richardson. It was a mistake to draft Trent 3rd overall to begin with as a RB has to have a rare combination of size, speed, vision, lateral agility, power, and quickness (an Adrian Peterson clone) to warrant being taken so high, Trent never possessed those elite traits for the Browns (Mike Holmgren and Co) to make such a pick.
I'm also not buying the Indianapolis Colts hype, they are more than a RB away from being considered a legit contender, that team can easily be 0-2 right now and will be 1-2 after this weekβs game against San Francisco. I watch the Colts a lot and that is a team that doesn't win at the line of scrimmage on the offensive or defensive side of the ball, and because of that I don't believe they'll win more than 7 games this year. The Browns have a legit chance of having 2 picks in the top 10 in the 2014 NFL draft, a draft that is loaded at the front end with elite QB and pass rushing prospects. Your team is merely a competent QB away from being a legit contender; I like the Browns chance of finding one next year. Both of our organizations have struggled for an extremely long time, but it finally looks like there are better days ahead for both of us.
Good Morning Browns fans
Your team is merely a competent QB away from being a legit contender; I like the Browns chance of finding one next year. Both of our organizations have struggled for an extremely long time, but it finally looks like there are better days ahead for both of us.
Morning...
Agreed with most of post, but we are more than a "competant QB" away... and we know it. Without upgrades on O-line and WR we are a great QB away.
Also, excuse me, but you came late to the party in '94... and with a sweetheart deal to boot. We have more suffering in a pinky than you have in your entire body.
But thanks anyway... and don't take this the wrong way, but...
... your Jags' helmets are FUGLY... What's up with the half-flat/ half-gloss two-tone look?
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Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
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I wonder if SF would have taken TR for Alex Smith... and maybe have thrown in a pick (2nd? 3rd?)...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You guys could easily be 2-0 right now; you were in many games last year as well. You have a team that can win consistently at the line of scrimmage, you have a potential #1 receiver in Josh Gordon, an emerging talent that fits into Norv's vertical scheme in Jordan Cameron, I like this team a lot, just my opinion however.
It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
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I wonder if SF would have taken TR for Alex Smith... and maybe have thrown in a pick (2nd? 3rd?)...
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Good Morning Browns fans
Your team is merely a competent QB away from being a legit contender; I like the Browns chance of finding one next year. Both of our organizations have struggled for an extremely long time, but it finally looks like there are better days ahead for both of us.
Morning...
Agreed with most of post, but we are more than a "competant QB" away... and we know it. Without upgrades on O-line and WR we are a great QB away.
Also, excuse me, but you came late to the party in '94... and with a sweetheart deal to boot. We have more suffering in a pinky than you have in your entire body.
But thanks anyway... and don't take this the wrong way, but...
... your Jags' helmets are FUGLY... What's up with the half-flat/ half-gloss two-tone look?
Morning...
Agreed with most of post, but we are more than a "competant QB" away... and we know it. Without upgrades on O-line and WR we are a great QB away.
Also, excuse me, but you came late to the party in '94... and with a sweetheart deal to boot. We have more suffering in a pinky than you have in your entire body.
But thanks anyway... and don't take this the wrong way, but...
... your Jags' helmets are FUGLY... What's up with the half-flat/ half-gloss two-tone look?
Haha none taken, I'm not a huge fan of the helmets but hopefully winning will help. In regards to your offensive line, there aren't many teams in the NFL that have good offensive lines; I believe yours is good enough to compete. I do agree that with the WR position, you can use another dynamic talent on the outside or in the slot, but you're not in bad shape right now with what you have. You guys will probably go QB/WR or QB/OL with your first two picks in the 2014 NFL draft, and the QB's at the top end of the draft are definitely good enough to make an immediate impact in this league,
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Point taken... like I said... I was dreaming while watching last nite's game. Then again he's a 30 yo RB with an injury history. TR would have made a heck of a near-term back up/ long-term heir apparent... Oh well...
And I was simultaneously thankful Chip Kelly "used us" rather than joined us. I had this epiphany that a pace of play that works with 20 yo's won't necessarily work with 30 yo's. Then there's that whole read offense thing that I give another two seasons to fizzle.
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It's just funny, the glass-half-full guys on here (I guess that includes me) will say similar things, that we're probably 4 or 5 players away (QB, OG, RB, CB, S) away from having a legitimately competitive team, and the glass-half-empty types will shoot it down, and we'll have the same debate over and again. Just makes me chuckle someone comes innocently wandering in to all this!
Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
Actually not, but thanks for giving us reasons for optimism. Without Richardson, we have no running game to speak of, Greg Little has been the reincarnation of Braylon Edwards this year, Cousins positively stinks @ RG, and we need a decent corner to compliment Haden- Skrine is more of a nickel back type. a decent saftey opposite Ward wouldn't hurt either. Yes, I know every team has holes somewhere.
Sure, we're going QB shopping next year- problem is the Natives are getting mighty restless. Down the road this trade might come out golden, but it's not going to help us much this year. Add in Lombardi has to prove he can do better than drafting guys like Robert Gallery. He has about one stud pick in his 20 year draft resume- Namdi Asomugah.
See you in December for the Bridgewater Bowl.
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We are in a lose-lose.
1. If Hoyer is a franchise QB, there was no need to deal Trent.
2. If Hoyer lays a turd, then Lombardi looks like an idiot (for blowing Hoyer as much as he has), and he's absolutely not the guy I want looking for and drafting our franchise QB in April.
3. If Hoyer is just ok, then he plays well enough to eek us out 5-6 wins and out of the running for a top QB in the draft. Nobody is taking just our extra (late) first rounder to move up 5-6 slots to the #1 pick.
Wish this move happened before or after the season.
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Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
This draft could be loaded with 'not-quite-Andrew-Luck' calibre QBs. I feel like unless the FO fall in love with one of them, we stay where we are (at 3-6) and take whoever's there, then just BPA for a few picks.
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Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
Actually not, but thanks for giving us reasons for optimism. Without Richardson, we have no running game to speak of, Greg Little has been the reincarnation of Braylon Edwards this year, Cousins positively stinks @ RG, and we need a decent corner to compliment Haden- Skrine is more of a nickel back type. a decent saftey opposite Ward wouldn't hurt either. Yes, I know every team has holes somewhere.
Sure, we're going QB shopping next year- problem is the Natives are getting mighty restless. Down the road this trade might come out golden, but it's not going to help us much this year. Add in Lombardi has to prove he can do better than drafting guys like Robert Gallery. He has about one stud pick in his 20 year draft resume- Namdi Asomugah.
See you in December for the Bridgewater Bowl.
Actually not, but thanks for giving us reasons for optimism. Without Richardson, we have no running game to speak of, Greg Little has been the reincarnation of Braylon Edwards this year, Cousins positively stinks @ RG, and we need a decent corner to compliment Haden- Skrine is more of a nickel back type. a decent saftey opposite Ward wouldn't hurt either. Yes, I know every team has holes somewhere.
Sure, we're going QB shopping next year- problem is the Natives are getting mighty restless. Down the road this trade might come out golden, but it's not going to help us much this year. Add in Lombardi has to prove he can do better than drafting guys like Robert Gallery. He has about one stud pick in his 20 year draft resume- Namdi Asomugah.
See you in December for the Bridgewater Bowl.
You guys didn't have much of a running game with Trent Richardson, I know it's early in his career but he's averaged 3.5 YPC, I think he was overrated in college and had no business going 3rd overall. Getting a 1st round pick for a middle of the road running back is absolutely outstanding, you guys have a lot of reason for optimism. Offensive guard and RB are two of the easiest positions to scout and fill in the NFL; you'll have no trouble filling those positions. I think the Browns brass (much like the Jaguars brass) recognize the elite QB prospects in the 2014 NFL draft and are trying to position themselves accordingly, I don't think you can blame them as the quickest way to the Lombardi trophy is through a franchise QB. Teddy Twatwater is one of the best QB prospects in the last 10 years, if Marcus Mariota declares he'll also be considered one of the best, I know you guys (much like the Jags) have suffered for a long time, but if there is a year to be bad, this is the year.
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Got you beat there pal- I go back to 1957 and the Ernie Davis tragedy. Got in on my pals seniority back in 1999- 31 years worth and counting. StubHub says my tickets sell for an average of $175- still interested? If you guys want to rag on me for being pissed about the high probability of yet another wasted season, I'm asking top dollar for my section $250 per.
Edit: may I quote USA Today? βIf youβre a Browns season ticket holder this morning, the idea of heading to the stadium seven more times this year to watch Brian Hoyer and the decaying carcass of Willis McGahee lead your offense canβt be at all appealing.β
Yeah- real entertaining watching another loss, more like a nightmare horror show. Hi guys- it's just like the movie Groundhog Day. I don't call that entertainment- especially since I have to drive 220 miles to watch it.
It would be more fun to just let the empty seat show up- and watch the game at home on Sunday Ticket. Saves me seven hours of weekend driving. That's the kind of "statement" I just might make. Plus I have relatives in Cleveland I'll give the tickets to, depending on how the season unfolds.
Why would I want to give someone who wants a refund full price + for his tickets...you make zero sense I'll be in my nice and warm in my vibrating lounger sipping my Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve Whiskey watching football entertainment and I'll pick up cheap tickets outside when the attendance fall..
Why would I want to give someone who wants a refund full price + for his tickets...you make zero sense I'll be in my nice and warm in my vibrating lounger sipping my Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve Whiskey watching football entertainment and I'll pick up cheap tickets outside when the attendance fall..
Well, possibly you can understand some of the season ticket holders got damn POed about shelling out their cash- only to see the Front Office effectively throw the season in the toilet mid-September. Over reaction? Sure.
6-8 wins this year even with Richardson? Probably. Wheres the commitment to winning now, not in 2-3 years? We've been though how many 5 year plans, and I'm sick and tired of it. "Tanking for Teddy" excuse me while I barf. This team starts royally sucking, and I won't even bother watching the games- I'll hop on my bicycle for some long rides on these nice fall Sundays and catch the game later on DVR.
No need to be an ass about things when 1\2 the city wants to vent.
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This is sadly enlightening, especially the last play shown:
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
After looking at this, I'm starting to think maybe our Run Blocking isn't so bad - look at the size of some of those holes opened (the last one you could drive a truck through).
This is the Higdon article, correct? It's fantastic. We were starting to make excuses for Richardson like we did for all our quarterbacks. In truth, he's a very old 23 with a lot of surgeries... and not at all special at a position already being diminished. The pick got a little crazier with each passing month.
Getting a first for him? Brilliant. Trading 5 for 4 and 4 for 3 in a better draft? Brilliant. Banner/Lombardi are going well outside the box but it sure looks smart to me.
This is sadly enlightening, especially the last play shown:
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
After looking at this, I'm starting to think maybe our Run Blocking isn't so bad - look at the size of some of those holes opened (the last one you could drive a truck through).
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Gft you coukd have done that and kept TRich. Also the major issue is the players in the locker room quitting on the coach,fo that quit on them after 2 games. Not to mention Paterson was telling players not to trust Banner and now they see why.
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Here's what I like about this regime:
1. They know the 2012 draft was Retarded. Excuse the political incorrectness.
2. They fully understand you can't win in this league without a "championship caliber QB," as the banner/Banner says in the War Room. As Chuckie said, "After that, everything else seems easy."
3. As to number 2, ask the Colts. Manning, playoffs. In between, 1-15. Luck, playoffs. The Browns have basically been the "in between" part since Kosar's peak.
4. They know the Colts were winning with a guy named Ballard, nobody can remember who plays RB for the Patriots, the Packers have won with Zombo playing RB, and there were 5 consecutive Super Bowls without a single 1,000 yard rusher (and their teams averaged #23 in rushing).
5. They actually understand the analytics of winning, the actual fact: Teams that win pass aggressively to take first half leads and then rush the passer. It's just a stone-cold fact.
6. They looked at Richardson's 3.3 YPC and thought, "Hell, McGahee or someone off the waiver wire could get us 3.7." Did they ever really think they could get a first for TR? I doubt it. It was a full-on Godfather offer.
7. This team is being built for 2015 and the new unis and stadium upgrades. We're going to bring in some serious talent next offseason, turning those 10 picks into two special players, one at #1. We're also going to have more cap space than anybody in the NFL and will be compelled by rules to spend it. I expect a serious haul... including a very good #2 cornerback, a very good WR, and a very good RG. And the clock's ticking on Schwartz, too. Teddy Twatwater's gonna walk into one hell of a sitch.
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