TRICH traded to colts
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We are in a lose-lose.
1. If Hoyer is a franchise QB, there was no need to deal Trent.
2. If Hoyer lays a turd, then Lombardi looks like an idiot (for blowing Hoyer as much as he has), and he's absolutely not the guy I want looking for and drafting our franchise QB in April.
3. If Hoyer is just ok, then he plays well enough to eek us out 5-6 wins and out of the running for a top QB in the draft. Nobody is taking just our extra (late) first rounder to move up 5-6 slots to the #1 pick.
Wish this move happened before or after the season.
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Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
Tour sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant is you said none of what I said effected if they draft a qb or not. My point is the Richardson trade doesnt effect if they draft a qb either. If your at #5 and say the Indy pick is #18. You think a team that also needs a franchise qb i.e Jax trades down to 5 for the #17 pick? I doubt it. They cant be that dumb to be crossing their fingers a tm will trade with them to get a qb. So my point is im not buying the qb thing at all.
This draft could be loaded with 'not-quite-Andrew-Luck' calibre QBs. I feel like unless the FO fall in love with one of them, we stay where we are (at 3-6) and take whoever's there, then just BPA for a few picks.
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Those debates are ongoing on every team (that is struggling) message board. However, when you're competing in just about every game you're playing in that is an obvious sign a team is close to contending, you simply can't look at records as records can be deceiving. The Chiefs and Jaguars won 2 games last year, the Jaguars were a true 2-Win team talent wise while the Chiefs weren't, and it's showing this year. Your team has a lot pieces (especially on the defensive side of the ball), a solid offensive line, and weapons that can win on the outside and down the middle, you are in a lot better position than most teams are. You make the argument that if the Browns had a QB it'd be a two team race (Bengals and Browns) for the AFC North title.
Actually not, but thanks for giving us reasons for optimism. Without Richardson, we have no running game to speak of, Greg Little has been the reincarnation of Braylon Edwards this year, Cousins positively stinks @ RG, and we need a decent corner to compliment Haden- Skrine is more of a nickel back type. a decent saftey opposite Ward wouldn't hurt either. Yes, I know every team has holes somewhere.
Sure, we're going QB shopping next year- problem is the Natives are getting mighty restless. Down the road this trade might come out golden, but it's not going to help us much this year. Add in Lombardi has to prove he can do better than drafting guys like Robert Gallery. He has about one stud pick in his 20 year draft resume- Namdi Asomugah.
See you in December for the Bridgewater Bowl.
Actually not, but thanks for giving us reasons for optimism. Without Richardson, we have no running game to speak of, Greg Little has been the reincarnation of Braylon Edwards this year, Cousins positively stinks @ RG, and we need a decent corner to compliment Haden- Skrine is more of a nickel back type. a decent saftey opposite Ward wouldn't hurt either. Yes, I know every team has holes somewhere.
Sure, we're going QB shopping next year- problem is the Natives are getting mighty restless. Down the road this trade might come out golden, but it's not going to help us much this year. Add in Lombardi has to prove he can do better than drafting guys like Robert Gallery. He has about one stud pick in his 20 year draft resume- Namdi Asomugah.
See you in December for the Bridgewater Bowl.
You guys didn't have much of a running game with Trent Richardson, I know it's early in his career but he's averaged 3.5 YPC, I think he was overrated in college and had no business going 3rd overall. Getting a 1st round pick for a middle of the road running back is absolutely outstanding, you guys have a lot of reason for optimism. Offensive guard and RB are two of the easiest positions to scout and fill in the NFL; you'll have no trouble filling those positions. I think the Browns brass (much like the Jaguars brass) recognize the elite QB prospects in the 2014 NFL draft and are trying to position themselves accordingly, I don't think you can blame them as the quickest way to the Lombardi trophy is through a franchise QB. Teddy Twatwater is one of the best QB prospects in the last 10 years, if Marcus Mariota declares he'll also be considered one of the best, I know you guys (much like the Jags) have suffered for a long time, but if there is a year to be bad, this is the year.
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Got you beat there pal- I go back to 1957 and the Ernie Davis tragedy. Got in on my pals seniority back in 1999- 31 years worth and counting. StubHub says my tickets sell for an average of $175- still interested? If you guys want to rag on me for being pissed about the high probability of yet another wasted season, I'm asking top dollar for my section $250 per.
Edit: may I quote USA Today? βIf youβre a Browns season ticket holder this morning, the idea of heading to the stadium seven more times this year to watch Brian Hoyer and the decaying carcass of Willis McGahee lead your offense canβt be at all appealing.β
Yeah- real entertaining watching another loss, more like a nightmare horror show. Hi guys- it's just like the movie Groundhog Day. I don't call that entertainment- especially since I have to drive 220 miles to watch it.
It would be more fun to just let the empty seat show up- and watch the game at home on Sunday Ticket. Saves me seven hours of weekend driving. That's the kind of "statement" I just might make. Plus I have relatives in Cleveland I'll give the tickets to, depending on how the season unfolds.
Why would I want to give someone who wants a refund full price + for his tickets...you make zero sense I'll be in my nice and warm in my vibrating lounger sipping my Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve Whiskey watching football entertainment and I'll pick up cheap tickets outside when the attendance fall..
Why would I want to give someone who wants a refund full price + for his tickets...you make zero sense I'll be in my nice and warm in my vibrating lounger sipping my Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve Whiskey watching football entertainment and I'll pick up cheap tickets outside when the attendance fall..
Well, possibly you can understand some of the season ticket holders got damn POed about shelling out their cash- only to see the Front Office effectively throw the season in the toilet mid-September. Over reaction? Sure.
6-8 wins this year even with Richardson? Probably. Wheres the commitment to winning now, not in 2-3 years? We've been though how many 5 year plans, and I'm sick and tired of it. "Tanking for Teddy" excuse me while I barf. This team starts royally sucking, and I won't even bother watching the games- I'll hop on my bicycle for some long rides on these nice fall Sundays and catch the game later on DVR.
No need to be an ass about things when 1\2 the city wants to vent.
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This is sadly enlightening, especially the last play shown:
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
After looking at this, I'm starting to think maybe our Run Blocking isn't so bad - look at the size of some of those holes opened (the last one you could drive a truck through).
This is the Higdon article, correct? It's fantastic. We were starting to make excuses for Richardson like we did for all our quarterbacks. In truth, he's a very old 23 with a lot of surgeries... and not at all special at a position already being diminished. The pick got a little crazier with each passing month.
Getting a first for him? Brilliant. Trading 5 for 4 and 4 for 3 in a better draft? Brilliant. Banner/Lombardi are going well outside the box but it sure looks smart to me.
This is sadly enlightening, especially the last play shown:
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
After looking at this, I'm starting to think maybe our Run Blocking isn't so bad - look at the size of some of those holes opened (the last one you could drive a truck through).
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Gft you coukd have done that and kept TRich. Also the major issue is the players in the locker room quitting on the coach,fo that quit on them after 2 games. Not to mention Paterson was telling players not to trust Banner and now they see why.
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Here's what I like about this regime:
1. They know the 2012 draft was Retarded. Excuse the political incorrectness.
2. They fully understand you can't win in this league without a "championship caliber QB," as the banner/Banner says in the War Room. As Chuckie said, "After that, everything else seems easy."
3. As to number 2, ask the Colts. Manning, playoffs. In between, 1-15. Luck, playoffs. The Browns have basically been the "in between" part since Kosar's peak.
4. They know the Colts were winning with a guy named Ballard, nobody can remember who plays RB for the Patriots, the Packers have won with Zombo playing RB, and there were 5 consecutive Super Bowls without a single 1,000 yard rusher (and their teams averaged #23 in rushing).
5. They actually understand the analytics of winning, the actual fact: Teams that win pass aggressively to take first half leads and then rush the passer. It's just a stone-cold fact.
6. They looked at Richardson's 3.3 YPC and thought, "Hell, McGahee or someone off the waiver wire could get us 3.7." Did they ever really think they could get a first for TR? I doubt it. It was a full-on Godfather offer.
7. This team is being built for 2015 and the new unis and stadium upgrades. We're going to bring in some serious talent next offseason, turning those 10 picks into two special players, one at #1. We're also going to have more cap space than anybody in the NFL and will be compelled by rules to spend it. I expect a serious haul... including a very good #2 cornerback, a very good WR, and a very good RG. And the clock's ticking on Schwartz, too. Teddy Twatwater's gonna walk into one hell of a sitch.
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I posted this on another T-Rich thread so it's probably been missed.
I think you all might want to see a few examples of our OL Run Blocking :
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
Here, if this posts correctly you should see something interesting:
Followed by play result:
There is more analysis and pictures on the link.
alright in everybody's eyes now TR is/was a bum. i think the guys was class act. no not worth a #3 pick. no not a RB dynamo.
BUT in his defense, do you think this might be a miscommunication, a RB not getting the play call right?
i mean zombo could have made a yard in that hole.
alright in everybody's eyes now TR is/was a bum. i think the guys was class act. no not worth a #3 pick. no not a RB dynamo.
BUT in his defense, do you think this might be a miscommunication, a RB not getting the play call right?
i mean zombo could have made a yard in that hole.
I don't think Trent is a bum, I think he's a beast, but he just hasn't developed his vision.
Maybe he never will (develop vision), but if/when he does, he'll be something.
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First off..Holmgren would quit if the vending machine ran out of ring dings...
He helped craft the drafting of T Rich, of course he liked the pick. Many of us thought it was a stupid pick and the current FO seems to be of the same mindset.
I was pretty happy with the FO before that TRich Weeden draft (and shurmur in general), but seriously...what was that? A RB #3 and a 30 year old rookie QB with a lot of questionmarks?
Who cares what Mike Holmgren has to say? It never seemed like he liked Cleveland much even when he was making millions to ride around in his rascal scooter smoking cigars.
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Agree he was not a "bum"... but how some think our win total this season dropped when he was traded mystifies me.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Here's what I like about this regime:
1. They know the 2012 draft was Retarded. Excuse the political incorrectness.
2. They fully understand you can't win in this league without a "championship caliber QB," as the banner/Banner says in the War Room. As Chuckie said, "After that, everything else seems easy."
3. As to number 2, ask the Colts. Manning, playoffs. In between, 1-15. Luck, playoffs. The Browns have basically been the "in between" part since Kosar's peak.
4. They know the Colts were winning with a guy named Ballard, nobody can remember who plays RB for the Patriots, the Packers have won with Zombo playing RB, and there were 5 consecutive Super Bowls without a single 1,000 yard rusher (and their teams averaged #23 in rushing).
5. They actually understand the analytics of winning, the actual fact: Teams that win pass aggressively to take first half leads and then rush the passer. It's just a stone-cold fact.
6. They looked at Richardson's 3.3 YPC and thought, "Hell, McGahee or someone off the waiver wire could get us 3.7." Did they ever really think they could get a first for TR? I doubt it. It was a full-on Godfather offer.
7. This team is being built for 2015 and the new unis and stadium upgrades. We're going to bring in some serious talent next offseason, turning those 10 picks into two special players, one at #1. We're also going to have more cap space than anybody in the NFL and will be compelled by rules to spend it. I expect a serious haul... including a very good #2 cornerback, a very good WR, and a very good RG. And the clock's ticking on Schwartz, too. Teddy Twatwater's gonna walk into one hell of a sitch.
Here's what I like about this regime:
1. They know the 2012 draft was Retarded. Excuse the political incorrectness.
2. They fully understand you can't win in this league without a "championship caliber QB," as the banner/Banner says in the War Room. As Chuckie said, "After that, everything else seems easy."
3. As to number 2, ask the Colts. Manning, playoffs. In between, 1-15. Luck, playoffs. The Browns have basically been the "in between" part since Kosar's peak.
4. They know the Colts were winning with a guy named Ballard, nobody can remember who plays RB for the Patriots, the Packers have won with Zombo playing RB, and there were 5 consecutive Super Bowls without a single 1,000 yard rusher (and their teams averaged #23 in rushing).
5. They actually understand the analytics of winning, the actual fact: Teams that win pass aggressively to take first half leads and then rush the passer. It's just a stone-cold fact.
6. They looked at Richardson's 3.3 YPC and thought, "Hell, McGahee or someone off the waiver wire could get us 3.7." Did they ever really think they could get a first for TR? I doubt it. It was a full-on Godfather offer.
7. This team is being built for 2015 and the new unis and stadium upgrades. We're going to bring in some serious talent next offseason, turning those 10 picks into two special players, one at #1. We're also going to have more cap space than anybody in the NFL and will be compelled by rules to spend it. I expect a serious haul... including a very good #2 cornerback, a very good WR, and a very good RG. And the clock's ticking on Schwartz, too. Teddy Twatwater's gonna walk into one hell of a sitch.
Agree the Draft trades/upgrades were a good move - 2013 Draft was weak, 2014 is rich.
I'm not sure if we're actually going to end up with two #1's, as I think we may need to bundle some picks to move up.
#1 - The 2012 first round was total stupidity.
#5 - They actually had Jackson (who we just cut) at RB didn't they? Even so, it supports your point.
#6 - I'm thinking McGahee has better production than Trent as well.
#7 - I actually think we'll be competitive next year, and I think getting Cousins out at RG will help Schwartz.
We get a QB, CB, WR as top priority and it'll shift the win/loss record.
Throw in a good RB and OG(s) and now we're looking at doing some damage.
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Agree he was not a "bum"... but how some think our win total this season dropped when he was traded mystifies me.
Agree he was not a "bum"... but how some think our win total this season dropped when he was traded mystifies me.
After finding that Blocking analysis I linked, I want to see how McGahee does.
Hate to say it, but with Gordon, Luavao, and Rubin back and Hoyer at QB, I'm starting to think we win this Sunday.
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Take away AP's season opening TD run and he's averaging around 2 YPC.
Just throwing it out there.
Peterson also has a 2,000 yard rushing season to his credit- get back to me when Richardson can say the same.
Peterson also has a 2,000 yard rushing season to his credit- get back to me when Richardson can say the same.
Once.
He's also only played a full season three times in his career.
I'm not comparing the two because AP is clearly in a different league. I'm saying that, through two games, even the best RB in the league has been shitty. And people complaining about Trent being injury prone tend to forget that AP is as well.
It's a two way street. You can argue both ways. I'm for the trade because it makes sense and you can get quality RB's anywhere. I'm against the fact that we laid 14 million for a Trent and got rid of him after 17 games.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
This is sadly enlightening, especially the last play shown:
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
After looking at this, I'm starting to think maybe our Run Blocking isn't so bad - look at the size of some of those holes opened (the last one you could drive a truck through).
This is sadly enlightening, especially the last play shown:
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/
After looking at this, I'm starting to think maybe our Run Blocking isn't so bad - look at the size of some of those holes opened (the last one you could drive a truck through).
First, that was last year when our line was relatively intact, so no... it was not as bad.
Second, actually the hole in that last example was drawn up between Schwartz and the pulling Greco. There's a crease there that should have been hit hard before the LB Greco picked up could spin inside as he ultimately did. It was the only analysis that the blogger missed.
Lombardi is not our primary drafter... Joe Banner is, along with guys like Ray Farmer, John Sandusky, and Ken Kovash. Also, veteran coaches such as Norv Turner and Ray Horton. Our player personnel department is filled with quality guys, including a mix of "football guys" and "analytics" guys. I would imagine Banner pulled the trigger on this trade b/c he is smart enough to realize TRich is not worth a 1st round pick, and we may have gotten a steal.
Don't forget, while us fans have to go through this "rebuilding" sh** again and again, this is theses guys' first season. They are trully trying to re-build, and I believe they are trying to do it correctly, and quickly.
Spot on.. and well said. Isn't Lombardi our "cap wizard"... or is that Banner as well?
i agree with the old newbie that we have to give every shot available to see if weeden can actually run this team. if he looks good and the losses aren't on him, then why even consider the dreaded 'drafting a franchise QB' next year. and the gamble that it is. we can't be doing this shit every 3 years. that's this teams problem.
i'd rather finish the defense off with a corner and safety, get the best right guard available and wide receiver(s). picks in no necessary order.
One way or another Weeden will get his second shot this year to make the Offense his... I have no doubt of that. Also have little doubt that he will fail... again...
But this is the year to make a QB determination and get "our guy". The more we improve our D and Offense around whichever QB we have (or can get cheap), the better our record will be and the harder it will be to draft "our guy".
Here's what I like about this regime:
3. ... ask the Colts. Manning, playoffs. In between, 1-15. Luck, playoffs. The Browns have basically been the "in between" part since Kosar's peak.
6. Did they ever really think they could get a first for TR? I doubt it. It was a full-on Godfather offer.
7. This team is being built for 2015 and the new unis and stadium upgrades. We're going to bring in some serious talent next offseason, turning those 10 And the clock's ticking on Schwartz, too.
3. You're forgetting the DA peak... more of a spike really though...
6. I doubt it, too.... but did Irsay wake up to find a severed horse head in his bed?
7. You just had to bring up the uni's... didn't ya?
10. Agree on Schwartz.... I'd actually like to see what Butler can do at RT
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Peterson also has a 2,000 yard rushing season to his credit- get back to me when Richardson can say the same.
Once.
He's also only played a full season three times in his career.
I'm not comparing the two because AP is clearly in a different league. I'm saying that, through two games, even the best RB in the league has been shitty. And people complaining about Trent being injury prone tend to forget that AP is as well.
It's a two way street. You can argue both ways. I'm for the trade because it makes sense and you can get quality RB's anywhere. I'm against the fact that we laid 14 million for a Trent and got rid of him after 17 games.
Once.
He's also only played a full season three times in his career.
I'm not comparing the two because AP is clearly in a different league. I'm saying that, through two games, even the best RB in the league has been shitty. And people complaining about Trent being injury prone tend to forget that AP is as well.
It's a two way street. You can argue both ways. I'm for the trade because it makes sense and you can get quality RB's anywhere. I'm against the fact that we laid 14 million for a Trent and got rid of him after 17 games.
+1. This is really how I've felt about the trade since it happened. I mean his trade value was only going to go down but I at least wanted to see the guy play half a season this year before throwing in the towel.
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Why would I want to give someone who wants a refund full price + for his tickets...you make zero sense I'll be in my nice and warm in my vibrating lounger sipping my Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve Whiskey watching football entertainment and I'll pick up cheap tickets outside when the attendance fall..
Well, possibly you can understand some of the season ticket holders got damn POed about shelling out their cash- only to see the Front Office effectively throw the season in the toilet mid-September. Over reaction? Sure.
6-8 wins this year even with Richardson? Probably. Wheres the commitment to winning now, not in 2-3 years? We've been though how many 5 year plans, and I'm sick and tired of it. "Tanking for Teddy" excuse me while I barf. This team starts royally sucking, and I won't even bother watching the games- I'll hop on my bicycle for some long rides on these nice fall Sundays and catch the game later on DVR.
No need to be an ass about things when 1\2 the city wants to vent.
This team starts royally sucking, and I won't even bother watching the games- I'll hop on my bicycle for some long rides on these nice fall Sundays and catch the game later on DVR.
Pretty sure Zombo.com was created to give Brownie fans something to do on Sundays until December 1st.
You should give it a look.
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Not exactly but agrees with the trade.
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I feel really sorry for most of you. You are in a normal "make excuses for my organization" mode when your organization just made one of the biggest blunders in sports history.
RB is an important position, but it is a meaningless position if the offense has nothing else. Cleveland has terrible QB's and thus far in 2013 has trotted out the worst set of wideouts in the entire league, though obviously that will change when Gordon returns.
Trying to insinuate that teams DON'T put 8 in the box and don't try and focus on Richardson is laughable to anyone that actually watches the games.
I'm sure it was frustrating to have Richardson and to watch as he struggled. But it doesn't mean he doesn't hit the holes fast, that he isn't good and that he can't be fantastic.
He will be a superstar in Indianapolis, and you guys will miss the boat again. It's absolutely laughable to think that you fleeced a team because you got a first rounder. The first rounder is completely worthless unless you use it to actually get a player that is better than the one you gave away. Judging by the decisions made thus far, you don't have a lot to look forward to in that regard.
Trent now goes to a team that actually has a modern offense and isn't stuck in the 1950's. Jim Brown would have been fortunate to get 4 ypc in this offense.
I probably wouldn't watch any Colts games if I were you guys, because it will be extremely depressing.
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I feel really sorry for most of you. You are in a normal "make excuses for my organization" mode when your organization just made one of the biggest blunders in sports history.
RB is an important position, but it is a meaningless position if the offense has nothing else. Cleveland has terrible QB's and thus far in 2013 has trotted out the worst set of wideouts in the entire league, though obviously that will change when Gordon returns.
Trying to insinuate that teams DON'T put 8 in the box and don't try and focus on Richardson is laughable to anyone that actually watches the games.
I'm sure it was frustrating to have Richardson and to watch as he struggled. But it doesn't mean he doesn't hit the holes fast, that he isn't good and that he can't be fantastic.
He will be a superstar in Indianapolis, and you guys will miss the boat again. It's absolutely laughable to think that you fleeced a team because you got a first rounder. The first rounder is completely worthless unless you use it to actually get a player that is better than the one you gave away. Judging by the decisions made thus far, you don't have a lot to look forward to in that regard.
Trent now goes to a team that actually has a modern offense and isn't stuck in the 1950's. Jim Brown would have been fortunate to get 4 ypc in this offense.
I probably wouldn't watch any Colts games if I were you guys, because it will be extremely depressing.
I feel really sorry for most of you. You are in a normal "make excuses for my organization" mode when your organization just made one of the biggest blunders in sports history.
RB is an important position, but it is a meaningless position if the offense has nothing else. Cleveland has terrible QB's and thus far in 2013 has trotted out the worst set of wideouts in the entire league, though obviously that will change when Gordon returns.
Trying to insinuate that teams DON'T put 8 in the box and don't try and focus on Richardson is laughable to anyone that actually watches the games.
I'm sure it was frustrating to have Richardson and to watch as he struggled. But it doesn't mean he doesn't hit the holes fast, that he isn't good and that he can't be fantastic.
He will be a superstar in Indianapolis, and you guys will miss the boat again. It's absolutely laughable to think that you fleeced a team because you got a first rounder. The first rounder is completely worthless unless you use it to actually get a player that is better than the one you gave away. Judging by the decisions made thus far, you don't have a lot to look forward to in that regard.
Trent now goes to a team that actually has a modern offense and isn't stuck in the 1950's. Jim Brown would have been fortunate to get 4 ypc in this offense.
I probably wouldn't watch any Colts games if I were you guys, because it will be extremely depressing.
Signed: Mike Holmgren
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