Skip to content
The Browns Board
Theme
  • System
  • Light
  • Dark
  • Login
  • Register
  • Forums
  • Recent
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Donate
  1. Home
  2. The Browns Board
  3. Lombardi draft record

Lombardi draft record

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Browns Board
33 Posts 18 Posters 2.0k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • Browns149 Browns149B Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
    • 10k Posts
    • 2k Reputation
    Browns149B Browns149 wrote on last edited by
    #8

    I don't think Lombardi has much authority on player personel . He's named GM because someone has to have that title, I guess. He wasn't even in Berea when they traded Trent. He was scouting out of town. I'm sure he has some say and his scouting and evaluations are taken into the decisions, but at the end of the day, Banner is the one calling the shots

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
    1 Reply Last reply
    Quote Reply
    • alwardc4 A
      • 67 Posts
      • 1 Reputation
      A alwardc4 wrote on last edited by
      #9

      With all the information available nowadays I think being good or bad at drafting is closer to a zero-sum game than fans realize.

      For example, possibly the worst GM (Mike Brown) has had some of the most success over the last few years in the draft. This isn't 1985 anymore (hell 1995 even). Information is EVERYWHERE.

      1 Reply Last reply
      Quote Reply
      • miktoxicM miktoxic

        i'm praying someone on this QB roster will play so damn good that picking another QB with our first pick would seem ridiculous making them go in another direction with their first couple of picks.

        my biggest fear (jcam22) is that they package both our 1st rounders and maybe even our second rounder to move up to number 1 for a bust QB.

        i will go apeshit!

        jrb12711 jrb12711J Conversation Starter Reacting Well Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
        • 5k Posts
        • 1k Reputation
        jrb12711J jrb12711 wrote on last edited by jrb12711
        #10

        @miktoxic said:

        i'm praying someone on this QB roster will play so damn good that picking another QB with our first pick would seem ridiculous making them go in another direction with their first couple of picks.

        my biggest fear (jcam22) is that they package both our 1st rounders and maybe even our second rounder to move up to number 1 for a bust QB.

        i will go apeshit!

        So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

        jcam222J miktoxicM 2 Replies Last reply
        Quote Reply
        • Flyin J Flyin JF One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
          • 2k Posts
          • 114 Reputation
          Flyin JF Flyin J wrote on last edited by
          #11

          Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

          post-17815-0-64740300-1379965901_thumb.jpeg

          The GipperT flyingfooldougF 2 Replies Last reply
          Quote Reply
          • Flyin JF Flyin J

            Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

            post-17815-0-64740300-1379965901_thumb.jpeg

            The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
            • 57k Posts
            • 4k Reputation
            The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
            #12

            XxDaBuckeyexX said:

            Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

            I count 70 players on that list.....and the best choice he ever made was a kicker.....Janikowski. Plus a few solid pros. Asomghua for a bit, and Huff some.

            But truly his success rate is about 10%....unless I am missing something. Particularly his Browns years. (first stint)

            flyingfooldougF 1 Reply Last reply
            Quote Reply
            • Flyin JF Flyin J

              Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

              post-17815-0-64740300-1379965901_thumb.jpeg

              flyingfooldoug flyingfooldougF One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
              • 4k Posts
              • 728 Reputation
              flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug wrote on last edited by
              #13

              XxDaBuckeyexX said:

              Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

              I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

              The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
              Quote Reply
              • jrb12711J jrb12711

                @miktoxic said:

                i'm praying someone on this QB roster will play so damn good that picking another QB with our first pick would seem ridiculous making them go in another direction with their first couple of picks.

                my biggest fear (jcam22) is that they package both our 1st rounders and maybe even our second rounder to move up to number 1 for a bust QB.

                i will go apeshit!

                So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

                jcam222 jcam222J Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                • 3k Posts
                • 873 Reputation
                jcam222J jcam222 wrote on last edited by
                #14

                @jrb12711 said:

                So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

                I think the point is our luck at first round QB's sucks. Rolling a bunch of picks into a bust would set us back many years. If it pans out of course I and most of us would climb on the band wagon.

                1 Reply Last reply
                Quote Reply
                • jrb12711J jrb12711

                  @miktoxic said:

                  i'm praying someone on this QB roster will play so damn good that picking another QB with our first pick would seem ridiculous making them go in another direction with their first couple of picks.

                  my biggest fear (jcam22) is that they package both our 1st rounders and maybe even our second rounder to move up to number 1 for a bust QB.

                  i will go apeshit!

                  So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

                  miktoxic miktoxicM
                  • 13k Posts
                  • 1k Reputation
                  miktoxicM miktoxic wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  @jrb12711 said:

                  So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

                  of course not. but luck was a virtual lock.

                  do you see one in next year's draft? cuz i sure don't.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  Quote Reply
                  • flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug

                    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

                    Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

                    I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

                    The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
                    • 57k Posts
                    • 4k Reputation
                    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    @flyingfooldoug said:

                    I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

                    He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

                    His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

                    miktoxicM flyingfooldougF 2 Replies Last reply
                    👍
                    Quote Reply
                    • The GipperT The Gipper

                      XxDaBuckeyexX said:

                      Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

                      I count 70 players on that list.....and the best choice he ever made was a kicker.....Janikowski. Plus a few solid pros. Asomghua for a bit, and Huff some.

                      But truly his success rate is about 10%....unless I am missing something. Particularly his Browns years. (first stint)

                      flyingfooldoug flyingfooldougF One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                      • 4k Posts
                      • 728 Reputation
                      flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      @the-gipper said:

                      I count 70 players on that list.....and the best choice he ever made was a kicker.....Janikowski. Plus a few solid pros. Asomghua for a bit, and Huff some.

                      But truly his success rate is about 10%....unless I am missing something. Particularly his Browns years. (first stint)

                      And if memory serves me right, using a first round pick on a kicker started a whole lot of shit in that draft and he took heavy criticism for that pick.

                      cdl15C 1 Reply Last reply
                      Quote Reply
                      • Z Zombo

                        @jcam222 said:

                        I was looking through an accounting of draft picks under his direction. My god his hit rate on talent is abysmal. I love our stockpiling draft picks to fill the team with fresh talent. The thing is I am terrified he will squander all of the picks on garbage. It will set us back many years. Does anyone else hope he somehow is toasted and gone before next years draft?

                        Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

                        Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

                        Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

                        Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

                        Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

                        Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

                        Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

                        Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

                        Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

                        Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

                        I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

                        Zombo

                        jcam222 jcam222J Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                        • 3k Posts
                        • 873 Reputation
                        jcam222J jcam222 wrote on last edited by
                        #18

                        Zombo said:

                        Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

                        Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

                        Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

                        Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

                        Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

                        Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

                        Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

                        Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

                        Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

                        Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

                        I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

                        Zombo

                        Good post. You have actually swayed my thinking some. The points are valid that the decisions thus far have been very good. I will stay positive unless they trade Gordon. If they do I will likely go off the deep end lol

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        Quote Reply
                        • miktoxic miktoxicM
                          • 13k Posts
                          • 1k Reputation
                          miktoxicM miktoxic wrote on last edited by
                          #19

                          if the browns were smart they'd send to lombardi to hawaii on vaca during draft week and when he calls with his opinions just have the FO guy that picks up the phone make that squelching noise and say "sorry mike, but your breaking up!" and hang the fuck up.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          Quote Reply
                          • The GipperT The Gipper

                            @flyingfooldoug said:

                            I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

                            He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

                            His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

                            miktoxic miktoxicM
                            • 13k Posts
                            • 1k Reputation
                            miktoxicM miktoxic wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            @the-gipper said:

                            He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

                            His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

                            LMAO!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            Quote Reply
                            • flyingfooldoug flyingfooldougF One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                              • 4k Posts
                              • 728 Reputation
                              flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug wrote on last edited by
                              #21

                              Mike Lombardi aka League Source....there will be no front office secrets from what I understand of this guy. Knifes and backs go hand in hand for him

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              Quote Reply
                              • The GipperT The Gipper

                                @flyingfooldoug said:

                                I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

                                He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

                                His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

                                flyingfooldoug flyingfooldougF One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                • 4k Posts
                                • 728 Reputation
                                flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                @the-gipper said:

                                He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

                                His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

                                LOL...and if they make mistakes will they be "Grand"

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                Quote Reply
                                • Shep S
                                  • 961 Posts
                                  • 55 Reputation
                                  S Shep wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

                                  Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

                                  Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

                                  The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

                                  The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

                                  Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

                                  They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

                                  Tim Couch Pulls OutT 1 Reply Last reply
                                  Quote Reply
                                  • Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
                                    • 30k Posts
                                    • 6k Reputation
                                    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by Tour2ma
                                    #24

                                    True, Shep, but Heckert also tabbed Josh Gordon, who certainly belongs at least at the tail end of any WR discussion at the Julio and AJ level (with Calvin in a class by himself).

                                    Also not sure about your Tannehill theory. He was a mega-ballsy pick at #8... at #4 it'd been off the charts balsy.

                                    But I do agree that all the moves to date looks promising, if not already solid. Plus, as others have pointed out elsewhere, a whole room full of people will have input into our selection process.

                                    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    Quote Reply
                                    • S Shep

                                      Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

                                      Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

                                      Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

                                      The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

                                      The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

                                      Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

                                      They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

                                      Tim Couch Pulls Out Tim Couch Pulls OutT Very Popular Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                      • 8k Posts
                                      • 1k Reputation
                                      Tim Couch Pulls OutT Tim Couch Pulls Out wrote on last edited by Tim Couch Pulls Out
                                      #25

                                      @shep said:

                                      Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

                                      Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

                                      Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

                                      The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

                                      The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

                                      Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

                                      They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

                                      Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Montario Hardesty, Shaun Lauvao, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Motchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin were also taken by Heckert, so factor that into your decision as well.

                                      He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

                                      Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

                                      Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

                                      We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

                                      Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

                                      Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

                                      Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

                                      Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

                                      The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

                                      Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

                                      He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

                                      Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

                                      And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

                                      I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
                                      miktoxicM RichiswhereR 2 Replies Last reply
                                      Quote Reply
                                      • Tim Couch Pulls OutT Tim Couch Pulls Out

                                        @shep said:

                                        Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

                                        Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

                                        Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

                                        The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

                                        The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

                                        Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

                                        They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

                                        Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Montario Hardesty, Shaun Lauvao, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Motchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin were also taken by Heckert, so factor that into your decision as well.

                                        He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

                                        Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

                                        Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

                                        We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

                                        Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

                                        Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

                                        Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

                                        Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

                                        The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

                                        Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

                                        He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

                                        Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

                                        And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

                                        miktoxic miktoxicM
                                        • 13k Posts
                                        • 1k Reputation
                                        miktoxicM miktoxic wrote on last edited by
                                        #26

                                        @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

                                        Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Montario Hardesty, Shaun Lauvao, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Motchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin were also taken by Heckert, so factor that into your decision as well.

                                        He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

                                        Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

                                        Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

                                        We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

                                        Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

                                        Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

                                        Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

                                        Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

                                        The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

                                        Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

                                        He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

                                        Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

                                        And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

                                        great post. learned a lot.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        Quote Reply
                                        • Z Zombo

                                          @jcam222 said:

                                          I was looking through an accounting of draft picks under his direction. My god his hit rate on talent is abysmal. I love our stockpiling draft picks to fill the team with fresh talent. The thing is I am terrified he will squander all of the picks on garbage. It will set us back many years. Does anyone else hope he somehow is toasted and gone before next years draft?

                                          Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

                                          Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

                                          Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

                                          Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

                                          Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

                                          Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

                                          Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

                                          Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

                                          Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

                                          Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

                                          I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

                                          Zombo

                                          ballpeen ballpeenB Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                          • 9k Posts
                                          • 2k Reputation
                                          ballpeenB ballpeen wrote on last edited by
                                          #27

                                          Zombo said:

                                          Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

                                          Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

                                          Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

                                          Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

                                          Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

                                          Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

                                          Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

                                          Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

                                          Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

                                          Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

                                          I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

                                          Zombo

                                          Nice recap.

                                          I think some people aren't looking at what is happening. So far, every move we have made is solid.

                                          If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
                                          miktoxicM 1 Reply Last reply
                                          Quote Reply

                                          Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.

                                          Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.

                                          With your input, this post could be even better 💗

                                          Register Login
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          Theme
                                          • System
                                          • Light
                                          • Dark
                                          The Browns Board Terms Privacy

                                          The Browns Board is an independent fan community. It is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or sponsored by the Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cavaliers, Cleveland Guardians, the NFL, NBA, MLB, or any of their affiliates. Team names, logos, and other marks are the property of their respective owners.

                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Forums
                                          • Recent
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Donate