So Kiko isn't being fined?
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I'm not winning this one am I lol? ah well go Browns!
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Gipson led with his shoulder.
Kiko clearly led with his helmet. Hoyer shouldn't have slid like that - if he hadn't, he'd probly be okay.
But leading with the helmet is not a clean, legal hit on a defenseless player.
If Kiko had simply led with his shoulder, it would have been fine.
That's just how I see it. We'll see if he gets fined or not.
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well from what i remember didn't he also do a troy polygirl jump the line at the QB move right as the ball was snapped?
polygirl does that every game abd has never been fined. i thought 'launching' yourself with helmet first was the big no no nowadays?
so if you launch yourself with your arms out in front of you but still make contact with your helmet first shouldn't that be a fine? (not saying that is what happened in the hoyer hit....i thought that was clean)....even though the guy is a roided up dick.
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It could go either way. What speaks against a fine is that Alonso dropped to that level practically simultaneously with Brian doing the same. He could not have predicted that. These guys have to make millisecond decisions when making their plays. That said, and what speaks for a fine, is the poor tackling tecnique that he used. It is more of a late lead with helmet dive than a clean arm wrap up attempt.
calfoxwc, I mostly agree with what you said except for the "defenseless player" part. A quarterback, when deciding to scramble, is not a defenseless player just because he´s a quarterback.
At any rate I wish both Brian and EJ quick recoveries.
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Can't find it anyway but I guess I'm wrong. We'll see Tuesday...
Can't find it anyway but I guess I'm wrong. We'll see Tuesday...
I think the top one here is what you are referring to: http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/03/brian-hoyer-took-a-hard-hit-from-kiko-alonso-appeared-to-twist-knee/
Sorry, can´t figure out how to enbed that here like Vapor Trail did.
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Can't find it anyway but I guess I'm wrong. We'll see Tuesday...
I think the top one here is what you are referring to: http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/03/brian-hoyer-took-a-hard-hit-from-kiko-alonso-appeared-to-twist-knee/
Sorry, can´t figure out how to enbed that here like Vapor Trail did.
I think the top one here is what you are referring to: http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/03/brian-hoyer-took-a-hard-hit-from-kiko-alonso-appeared-to-twist-knee/
Sorry, can´t figure out how to enbed that here like Vapor Trail did.
Oh wow. Imagine that Kiko looks up and then crowns him. Sorry for the shitty thread guys Vaportrail has put me in my place. I won't start any threads from now on. Go Browns.
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I think the top one here is what you are referring to: http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/03/brian-hoyer-took-a-hard-hit-from-kiko-alonso-appeared-to-twist-knee/
Sorry, can´t figure out how to enbed that here like Vapor Trail did.
Oh wow. Imagine that Kiko looks up and then crowns him. Sorry for the shitty thread guys Vaportrail has put me in my place. I won't start any threads from now on. Go Browns.
Oh wow. Imagine that Kiko looks up and then crowns him. Sorry for the shitty thread guys Vaportrail has put me in my place. I won't start any threads from now on. Go Browns.
You have no idea what you're talking about, you can see that he lines up for his ribs at the same time Hoyer decides to drop. It was definitely helmet to helmet, so there is an argument for a flag, but it was clearly not intentional so there's no cogent argument for a fine. Why are you still whining about it?
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that's what kiko is paid to do. he won't get fined for a legal hit. if anything he will get a bonus check for a job well done
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Had Hoyer not slid, it would a been a near textbook hit to the ribs, minus Kiko not wrapping up.
However, Hoyer chose to slide instead of stepping out of bounds, which means Kiko hit him higher.
A unfortunate injury, but a clean hit. No fines.
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Oh wow. Imagine that Kiko looks up and then crowns him. Sorry for the shitty thread guys Vaportrail has put me in my place. I won't start any threads from now on. Go Browns.
You have no idea what you're talking about, you can see that he lines up for his ribs at the same time Hoyer decides to drop. It was definitely helmet to helmet, so there is an argument for a flag, but it was clearly not intentional so there's no cogent argument for a fine. Why are you still whining about it?
You have no idea what you're talking about, you can see that he lines up for his ribs at the same time Hoyer decides to drop. It was definitely helmet to helmet, so there is an argument for a flag, but it was clearly not intentional so there's no cogent argument for a fine. Why are you still whining about it?
Actually, this view gives me a new perspective on it. Again, the hit to the head had nothing to do with causing the injury...but it is a fact that he does lower his head in order to make helmet to helmet contact.
That is clear to me.
What may also be apparent is that he is allowed to do this...one Hoyer breaks contain and starts to scramble he loses his protection and is just another runner....who, apparently under the rules, can be the subject of a helmet to helmet hit.
Remember the James Harrison hit on Josh Cribbs a couple of years back? He planted the crown of his helmet into Cribb's helmet.....no penalty, no fine, no nothing. This is apparently the same sort of thing.
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You can lead with your helmet? Surely that can't be.... I understand that he's a runner...
but spearing anybody with the helmet surely isn't legal.
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You can lead with your helmet? Surely that can't be.... I understand that he's a runner...
but spearing anybody with the helmet surely isn't legal.
You can lead with your helmet? Surely that can't be.... I understand that he's a runner...
but spearing anybody with the helmet surely isn't legal.
It's not even legal to do it as the runner any more. To be fair, he's at most leading half with his helmet, more with his shoulder. Trouble is, if you try to tackle someone with your shoulder, you're head's going to be in the vicinity, you can't lead with your shoulder and leave your head behind...
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ya, but the shoulder straight on, leads with the head first. He could
have side-shoulder bumped him out of bounds in a huge way, sending him flying
out of bounds - but he clearly dove at him helmet first. I don't see an attempt
to hit him with the shoulder there. Or shoved him out of bounds with his hands.
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You have no idea what you're talking about, you can see that he lines up for his ribs at the same time Hoyer decides to drop. It was definitely helmet to helmet, so there is an argument for a flag, but it was clearly not intentional so there's no cogent argument for a fine. Why are you still whining about it?
Actually, this view gives me a new perspective on it. Again, the hit to the head had nothing to do with causing the injury...but it is a fact that he does lower his head in order to make helmet to helmet contact.
That is clear to me.
What may also be apparent is that he is allowed to do this...one Hoyer breaks contain and starts to scramble he loses his protection and is just another runner....who, apparently under the rules, can be the subject of a helmet to helmet hit.
Remember the James Harrison hit on Josh Cribbs a couple of years back? He planted the crown of his helmet into Cribb's helmet.....no penalty, no fine, no nothing. This is apparently the same sort of thing.
Actually, this view gives me a new perspective on it. Again, the hit to the head had nothing to do with causing the injury...but it is a fact that he does lower his head in order to make helmet to helmet contact.
That is clear to me.
What may also be apparent is that he is allowed to do this...one Hoyer breaks contain and starts to scramble he loses his protection and is just another runner....who, apparently under the rules, can be the subject of a helmet to helmet hit.
Remember the James Harrison hit on Josh Cribbs a couple of years back? He planted the crown of his helmet into Cribb's helmet.....no penalty, no fine, no nothing. This is apparently the same sort of thing.
I just have to disagree, he is lowering his head to chest-level before Hoyer drops and ends up with his head at that same level. I don't think the helmet-to-helmet contact is intentional. It wasn't even a direct helmet-to-helmet hit. I love Hoyer, but the injury is on him. He should have either stayed upright and ran out of bounds, or entered a clean QB slide earlier.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
ya, but the shoulder straight on, leads with the head first. He could
have side-shoulder bumped him out of bounds in a huge way, sending him flying
out of bounds - but he clearly dove at him helmet first. I don't see an attempt
to hit him with the shoulder there. Or shoved him out of bounds with his hands.
ya, but the shoulder straight on, leads with the head first. He could
have side-shoulder bumped him out of bounds in a huge way, sending him flying
out of bounds - but he clearly dove at him helmet first. I don't see an attempt
to hit him with the shoulder there. Or shoved him out of bounds with his hands.
You can see in the gif the arms go round, he's trying to wrap him up, rather than knock him out of bounds. It's just bad luck for the helmet to helmet.
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Actually, this view gives me a new perspective on it. Again, the hit to the head had nothing to do with causing the injury...but it is a fact that he does lower his head in order to make helmet to helmet contact.
That is clear to me.
What may also be apparent is that he is allowed to do this...one Hoyer breaks contain and starts to scramble he loses his protection and is just another runner....who, apparently under the rules, can be the subject of a helmet to helmet hit.
Remember the James Harrison hit on Josh Cribbs a couple of years back? He planted the crown of his helmet into Cribb's helmet.....no penalty, no fine, no nothing. This is apparently the same sort of thing.
I just have to disagree, he is lowering his head to chest-level before Hoyer drops and ends up with his head at that same level. I don't think the helmet-to-helmet contact is intentional. It wasn't even a direct helmet-to-helmet hit. I love Hoyer, but the injury is on him. He should have either stayed upright and ran out of bounds, or entered a clean QB slide earlier.
I just have to disagree, he is lowering his head to chest-level before Hoyer drops and ends up with his head at that same level. I don't think the helmet-to-helmet contact is intentional. It wasn't even a direct helmet-to-helmet hit. I love Hoyer, but the injury is on him. He should have either stayed upright and ran out of bounds, or entered a clean QB slide earlier.
Well, the key phrase as you said is "lowering his helmet".... on that play, to me seeing it, it is completely counterproductive for him to have lowered his helmet. His tackle would have been far more efficient if he had not lowered the helmet. The only purpose I see for him lowering his head is to crashbang into Hoyer's head.
Again...I am not saying that this play was illegal or should have been penalized, nor do I believe at all that the head to head hit had anything to do with the injury (it could actually have been worse had he kept his head up). I just say that lowering his helmet was superfluous.
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NEW RULE: A ban on a ball carrier initiating contact with the crown of his helmet in the open field or by a defender while making a tackle.
What the rule changes: A 15-yard penalty will be called if a runner or a tackler initiates forcible contact by delivering a blow with the top/crown of his helmet against an opponent when both players clearly are outside the tackle box (an area extending from tackle-to-tackle and from 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team's end line). Incidental contact by the helmet of a runner or a tackler against an opponent would not be deemed a foul.
To my eye what helmet to helmet there was, was an incidental, glancing blow.
And clearly from the gif the contact was with the side and not the crown of Alonso's helmet.
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