Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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Some bad luck and poor utilization but to get a franchise QB that's a risk I think you have to take. Especially in the situation we are in now similar to the mid / early 2000's Steelers being only a QB away from a legit team.
Just not sold on there being a real top notch QB in this up coming draft, then again I'm not too savvy on that sorta thing only time will tell.
Yeah, and Rothlisberger fell to the Steelers @ #9. Two first round picks? OK. Three firsts and a second? You're out of your damn mind. Go look at the draft value chart and tell me I'm wrong as to what Washington stupidly did.
& That's exactly it- I like what I've seen of Bridgewater- (he's no Luck or Elway fer sure BTW) but the Browns will need MORE than a RG III deal to move up that far.
IMHO the Browns are exactly in the position the Steelers were before Big Bum, or KC last year- get your franchise qb LAST. and no need to throw away multiple drafts to get him either.
Yeah, and Rothlisberger fell to the Steelers @ #9. Two first round picks? OK. Three firsts and a second? You're out of your damn mind. Go look at the draft value chart and tell me I'm wrong as to what Washington stupidly did.
& That's exactly it- I like what I've seen of Bridgewater- (he's no Luck or Elway fer sure BTW) but the Browns will need MORE than a RG III deal to move up that far.
IMHO the Browns are exactly in the position the Steelers were before Big Bum, or KC last year- get your franchise qb LAST. and no need to throw away multiple drafts to get him either.
I think that draft value chart is pretty much irrelevent anymore with the new rookie wage scales and premiums on QB's.
And yes the Skins did overpay for Griffin but it's easy to say that now that he was injured and they aren't doing as well this season. Last year when he was playing like the second coming of Vick with some actual QB abilities the trade was looking a lot more in their favor. Draft picks are only numbers it's about the player you take with it, before we traded Richardson say the Skins were to offer us Griffin for Weeden,Richardson Schwartz and next years 1#, something similar to what they paid for him pick wise, you don't think the Browns would have made that trade immediately?
I don't know if there is any QB in next years draft that warrants a blockbuster deal similar to that, I think we can stay put and still get our guy.You have to like what we've seen from Banner so far trade wise,he's the guy doing the screwing and is 2for2 in my book with his trades, you won't see any ridiculous deals like the Minnesota trade to move up one spot. I really hope they don't sell the farm for a QB because we are loaded with picks, just hope they aren't all Leon McFadden's.
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I'm definitely on board with building a great team before getting a QB.
I'm just not that big on drafting a QB that high either, unless it's Teddy.
AJ McCarron in the 3rd would be a steal, and if we can't get Teddy I don't want anyone ranked above him.
<E> Didn't we trade for Dion Lewis? That really didn't work out, but it's no one's fault.
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Height thing does seem in flux. Brees used to be a total anomaly but he towers over Russell Wilson. RG3 (like Hoyer) is 6'2", only one inch taller than Brees. If we figure out how to keep a mobile QB healthy and alive, you will see some smaller, quicker guys playing the position, I think.
Seems like there won't be that one 6'4" prototype.
Agree... I still have a soft spot in my heart (or head) for McCarron...
Height thing does seem in flux. Brees used to be a total anomaly but he towers over Russell Wilson. RG3 (like Hoyer) is 6'2", only one inch taller than Brees. If we figure out how to keep a mobile QB healthy and alive, you will see some smaller, quicker guys playing the position, I think.
Seems like there won't be that one 6'4" prototype.
Even tall QBs need to find throwing lanes. Right, Wheezy? Well, maybe not Osweiler...
Shorter QBs just slide in the pocket to find them.
I don't know if there is any QB in next years draft that warrants a blockbuster deal similar to that, I think we can stay put and still get our guy. I really hope they don't sell the farm for a QB because we are loaded with picks, just hope they aren't all Leon McFadden's.
I think that draft value chart is pretty much irrelevent anymore with the new rookie wage scales and premiums on QB's.
Agree... not yet wowed, but like a couple (and still looking). So if the draft ends up being preceived as QB deep as some of the current hype is promoting it, then hopefully the right one falls our way.
And agree as well on the chart... With the rookie cap in place the value of the top picks is much greater than before. Top picks are so much more affordable that sticking with a high pick is not the nearly the risk it once was.
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The rule of thumb in team building is simple: If you don't have a great quarterback, you aren't relevant and you get one just as soon as possible. It's the hardest piece to acquire and you don't pass on it with plans to circle back for one later.
Again, as Chuckie and many others have said: Once you have your guy at QB, everything else seems easy. Gruden says it's the biggest lesson he's learned over the years. He makes your OL better, your receivers better, and all that makes your running game and pass rush better. Nobody in all of team sports has so much influence on everything else.
The Browns have a shitload of assets with which to acquire key upgrades next offseason, namely TEN draft picks and about $30 million that almost forces them to be more aggressive than last year. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to be stingy in trading up to get the quarterback they really want because it'll cost them a draft pick. They have more than they can use on a team already filled with a lot of (very) young talent.
Let's say the Browns draft 8th and they really want Mariota. They feel like they can get him at #3. They trade the 26th pick to accomplish that, maybe with that extra fourth rounder tossed in, too.
Who really cares? The Browns still have a high 2nd round pick, two thirds, and a fourth, not to mention the rest of the draft for depth. They can trade back into round 2 with that high third and a 4th, giving them 2 seconds, a third, and several free agent chips to play (probably 4 serious guys). They can add a WR, a RB, a rightside blocker, a corner, and more... in addition to Mariota.
Frankly, if this team ONLY had at least "good" QB play, like we'd get from Brian Hoyer? 9 wins would be reasonable. Really good QB play? 11. We have really good corners and pass rushers, one of the best left tackles in the game, a very nice pair of ILBs, a legit #1 WR in Gordon and a Pro Bowl TE in Cameron.
The difference between the Browns and winning teams isn't at guard or RB or even WR. It's at QB. And the team has every intention of drafting one way up high which is what that other first round pick is earmarked for. So we can keep talking "if" but it's a waste of time. The real conversation is "who."
At RB, it's Dion, Obie, and a high third round pick. At WR, we could add a guy with that 2nd round pick. Free agents on the OL, CB, and another WR, all serious guys. I could also see a TE high in the 4th.
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IF they want Mariota... stay tuned...
Meanwhile couple very good games to take a hard look at Mssrs. Hundley and Boyd this weekend.
(9) UCLA @ (13) Stanford --- Sat 10/19 14:30 EDT --- The lower ranked Cardinal is favored by 6 at home.
(5) Florida St @ (3) Clemson --- Sat 10-19 19:00 EDT --- The higher ranked Tigers are a 3 point dog at home!
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The rule of thumb in team building is simple: If you don't have a great quarterback, you aren't relevant and you get one just as soon as possible. It's the hardest piece to acquire and you don't pass on it with plans to circle back for one later Shep
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It depends on when you start building. When they drafted Couch, they didn't have the team
around him to succeed. Even Eli Manning struggled, and there was a lot of talk that he may have been a bust
back then,
It's no different than when Archie Manning went to the Saints. He got the hell beaten out of him.
QB's get ruined by being picked to a team that can't protect them, doesn't have the talent around them to succeed.
Give them enough talent around them, and you can draft a Joe Montana in the 3rd round to make it take off.
But now is the time for the Browns to draft a qb. This class, to me, seems large qb-wise, but I don't
see that there is one qb to move up to get. In fact, depending on which qb they want, they could draft
Lee, wr, with their first pick, and move up from their second first rounder, and still get their qb.
Or not.
Mariota may end up being the first qb taken, and that isn't taking anything away from Bridgewater or Boyd - who knows?
The Browns need that Randall Cobb/Hines Ward kind of wr, regardless who the qb ends up being.
But, with Hoyer hopefully being the starter next year, they need to get that future qb in camp, and let
him learn the game for at least a half year, and the new kid takes over.
The big difference is, now, that the Browns have a staff that really, really knows what they are doing,
and what talent fits what they need. Whoever the Browns draft next year, if they spend some picks
to move up for that one guy, it's because it will be the right decision.
Offhand, Bridgewater and Mariota seem to be the top two qb's. It's way, way early.
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I'm definitely on board with building a great team before getting a QB.
I'm just not that big on drafting a QB that high either, unless it's Teddy.
AJ McCarron in the 3rd would be a steal, and if we can't get Teddy I don't want anyone ranked above him.
<E> Didn't we trade for Dion Lewis? That really didn't work out, but it's no one's fault.
I'm definitely on board with building a great team before getting a QB.
I'm just not that big on drafting a QB that high either, unless it's Teddy.
AJ McCarron in the 3rd would be a steal, and if we can't get Teddy I don't want anyone ranked above him.
<E> Didn't we trade for Dion Lewis? That really didn't work out, but it's no one's fault.
We moved an LB who never saw the field. Not exactly the worst trade, especially considering the quality of linebackers we have employed at the moment.
Dion, from many reports, is a very nearly a clone of Shady McCoy, only slightly shifter.
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Dion Lewis is exactly what the Browns want to do at RB. I think he and Obie would be a really nice tandem. Obie's a classic one-cut runner with more burst than you expect. Love to see him get more carries. Still think we'll add a guy who can run/catch like both of those guys, maybe high in round 3 (Bernard Pierce territory). That's a nice group of backs.
This is a really good situation for a quarterback to step into, a bit of a doughnut team with most of the other key building blocks in place: Pass rushers? Check. Great left tackle? Check. #1 Receiver? Check. Safety blanket TE? Check. #1 corner? Check. Backs who can catch? Check.
The Browns will basically do whatever it takes to get their guy at QB because adding the other pieces is easy-breezy after that. We could bring in a WR, another TE, that RB, maybe a corner with size, some depth at safety... but none of that is code red, top five stuff. Not at all.
As Grossi said just yesterday when somebody was listing what the Browns need to do to be a playoff team next year, he said something to the effect of, "That's all secondary to getting the right quarterback." Stone cold fact.
Again, it's not if... it's who the Browns will draft in the top five at quarterback. Assuming we can't get to Bridgewater, I think it's Mariota. Someone (King?) just said if Kaepernick and Peyton Manning had a baby, it'd be Marcus Mariota.
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My bad. I didn't know it was actually a "rule" that a QB had to be 6'4 to be a smart QB.
I'm not talking about them being smart.
I'm talking about them being successful.
The stats point to bigger QB's being successful. Of course there are a few exceptions...but generally speaking, bigger QB's tend to have more success. It's a hell of a lot easier to find a tall, successful QB than it is to find a short one. That's not because they're always better, but because shorter QB's tend to be phased out of that position early on in their careers. High school and college coaches are going to nearly always try and plug in the bigger guy and move the smaller guy to slot receiver or DB. It's not fair, but it tends to be the case.
Of course, as I said, there are exceptions.
I didn't know it was a "rule" that a QB had to be under 6'4 to be considered smart. Not all tall QB's are Derek Anderson.
I'm not talking about them being smart.
I'm talking about them being successful.
The stats point to bigger QB's being successful. Of course there are a few exceptions...but generally speaking, bigger QB's tend to have more success. It's a hell of a lot easier to find a tall, successful QB than it is to find a short one. That's not because they're always better, but because shorter QB's tend to be phased out of that position early on in their careers. High school and college coaches are going to nearly always try and plug in the bigger guy and move the smaller guy to slot receiver or DB. It's not fair, but it tends to be the case.
Of course, as I said, there are exceptions.
I didn't know it was a "rule" that a QB had to be under 6'4 to be considered smart. Not all tall QB's are Derek Anderson.
Did you guys know Joe Montana was 6'5? True story.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
If he's there I wouldnt' mind seeing Cleveland pick up Hyde in the later rounds as the heavy.
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Hyde's a freaking beast. Love that guy. Give me Hyde, Obie, and Lewis... all bases covered.
I can't stress enough how against the grain you are if you think this is a quarterback class to pass on. It's one of the best in the last decade with 7 or 8 guys who could very easily end up long-term winning starters in this league.
Andy Dalton would be the 10th best QB in this draft. That's pretty amazing. CBS updated on 10/15 and has 6 quarterbacks in the top 25. Moved Johnny Cash up to #9... but also list him at 5'11". Thought he'd proven he's truly 6'1"?
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I'm not talking about them being smart.
I'm talking about them being successful.
The stats point to bigger QB's being successful. Of course there are a few exceptions...but generally speaking, bigger QB's tend to have more success. It's a hell of a lot easier to find a tall, successful QB than it is to find a short one. That's not because they're always better, but because shorter QB's tend to be phased out of that position early on in their careers. High school and college coaches are going to nearly always try and plug in the bigger guy and move the smaller guy to slot receiver or DB. It's not fair, but it tends to be the case.
Of course, as I said, there are exceptions.
I didn't know it was a "rule" that a QB had to be under 6'4 to be considered smart. Not all tall QB's are Derek Anderson.
Did you guys know Joe Montana was 6'5? True story.
Did you guys know Joe Montana was 6'5? True story.
Did you guys know that you can count the number of HOF QB's under 6 feet tall on one hand?
Did you know that the average height and weight of all 55 NFL QBs that started throughout the 2011 season was 6'3, 225 lbs?
Did you know that 29 of the 32 starting NFL QB's were at least 6'3?
Did you know that fifteen starting QB that year were at least 6'5?
True stories.
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I swear Shep is really a draft fan, not a football fan. And his QB picks are usually off.
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Forgot Rodgers is 6'2", just like RG3. Vick and Brees are 6'. It's been a good height over the years for mobile QBs. The average for all time is 6'2"... obviously taller right now.
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I swear Shep is really a draft fan, not a football fan. And his QB picks are usually off.
I swear Shep is really a draft fan, not a football fan. And his QB picks are usually off.
Really, really good post. Worth the time. Keep us updated on your ill will. I'm going to Kansas City in a week to watch the Chiefs and Browns hold a draft.
(There really should be an IQ test to join a board.)
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Wow, lol.
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As I watch more and more of Mariota play I am liking this kid more and more. He seems like a more accurate and more intelligent Cam Newton. That kind of ability would give us a huge advantage.
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