Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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The hands thing was included in the feature Countdown did on Wilson this past Sunday. Turns out he has sizable meat hooks as well...
And, Shep, I assume all here post their honest opinions...
I get that McCarron plays on a great team... THE dominant college team in the 2010's. But the turnover on that team has been substantial over the past 3 seasons. Player changes at nearly every position save one... QB. My experience tells me that when you change all but one variable and get the same result, then the unchanged variable is controlling the outcome.
It also does not hurt that those outcomes come against the best competition available.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
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What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
the first time I saw him throw a 5 yard out and it looked like the ball was spinning end over end, I was done evaluating him.What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
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Small guys that like to run around tend not to last long in the NFL.
I don't see Bret Favre in Manziel.
Maybe Jake Plummer.
Zombo
Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.Zombo said:
Small guys that like to run around tend not to last long in the NFL.
I don't see Bret Favre in Manziel.
Maybe Jake Plummer.
Zombo
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What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
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The hands thing was included in the feature Countdown did on Wilson this past Sunday. Turns out he has sizable meat hooks as well...
And, Shep, I assume all here post their honest opinions...
I get that McCarron plays on a great team... THE dominant college team in the 2010's. But the turnover on that team has been substantial over the past 3 seasons. Player changes at nearly every position save one... QB. My experience tells me that when you change all but one variable and get the same result, then the unchanged variable is controlling the outcome.
It also does not hurt that those outcomes come against the best competition available.
The hands thing was included in the feature Countdown did on Wilson this past Sunday. Turns out he has sizable meat hooks as well...
And, Shep, I assume all here post their honest opinions...
I get that McCarron plays on a great team... THE dominant college team in the 2010's. But the turnover on that team has been substantial over the past 3 seasons. Player changes at nearly every position save one... QB. My experience tells me that when you change all but one variable and get the same result, then the unchanged variable is controlling the outcome.
It also does not hurt that those outcomes come against the best competition available.
There is another unchanged variable you may be missing... his name is Nick Saban...
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Point taken 23... but as great as coaches may be, players still have to deliver.
Raises an interesting point though...
Everyone says that Saben "has the best talent". And not just collectively, but at individual positions.
Why would he settle for a lesser talent at the most important position on the field???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Point taken 23... but as great as coaches may be, players still have to deliver.
Raises an interesting point though...
Everyone says that Saben "has the best talent". And not just collectively, but at individual positions.
Why would he settle for a lesser talent at the most important position on the field???
He's a good college QB, nobodys debating that. And he may even stick in the NFL for a while, but he'll never be a top 10 QB. One of those high floor, low ceiling guys like Dalton.Point taken 23... but as great as coaches may be, players still have to deliver.
Raises an interesting point though...
Everyone says that Saben "has the best talent". And not just collectively, but at individual positions.
Why would he settle for a lesser talent at the most important position on the field???
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Tour, college and the NFL are two different things entirely as far as the dominance of the QB position. So-so quarterbacks at Florida (three times under 2 coaches!), Tennessee (the year AFTER Manning), Oklahoma, and a lot of other big programs have won it all. There's no weighted draft and about 100 D1 programs instead of 32, so you like your chances of winning championships by simply being bigger and/or faster than everybody else... instead of waging war over 5 or so legit high school QBs a year.
College is coach/recruiter driven; pros are quarterback driven.
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Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.Zombo said:
Small guys that like to run around tend not to last long in the NFL.
I don't see Bret Favre in Manziel.
Maybe Jake Plummer.
Zombo
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.
dude he's playing against college players. in the NFL one big hit by soemone 300lbs+ and it's all over for johnny football.
and believe me there will be a lot of big mandikas standing in line waiting to punish that spoiled brat.
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Tour, college and the NFL are two different things entirely as far as the dominance of the QB position. So-so quarterbacks at Florida (three times under 2 coaches!), Tennessee (the year AFTER Manning), Oklahoma, and a lot of other big programs have won it all. There's no weighted draft and about 100 D1 programs instead of 32, so you like your chances of winning championships by simply being bigger and/or faster than everybody else... instead of waging war over 5 or so legit high school QBs a year.
College is coach/recruiter driven; pros are quarterback driven.
Tour, college and the NFL are two different things entirely as far as the dominance of the QB position. So-so quarterbacks at Florida (three times under 2 coaches!), Tennessee (the year AFTER Manning), Oklahoma, and a lot of other big programs have won it all. There's no weighted draft and about 100 D1 programs instead of 32, so you like your chances of winning championships by simply being bigger and/or faster than everybody else... instead of waging war over 5 or so legit high school QBs a year.
College is coach/recruiter driven; pros are quarterback driven.
Please, tell us one more time. We didn't get your point.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.
dude he's playing against college players. in the NFL one big hit by soemone 300lbs+ and it's all over for johnny football.
and believe me there will be a lot of big mandikas standing in line waiting to punish that spoiled brat.
Unlike the SEC?
dude he's playing against college players. in the NFL one big hit by soemone 300lbs+ and it's all over for johnny football.
and believe me there will be a lot of big mandikas standing in line waiting to punish that spoiled brat.
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Tour, college and the NFL are two different things entirely as far as the dominance of the QB position. So-so quarterbacks at Florida (three times under 2 coaches!), Tennessee (the year AFTER Manning), Oklahoma, and a lot of other big programs have won it all. There's no weighted draft and about 100 D1 programs instead of 32, so you like your chances of winning championships by simply being bigger and/or faster than everybody else... instead of waging war over 5 or so legit high school QBs a year.
College is coach/recruiter driven; pros are quarterback driven.
Please, tell us one more time. We didn't get your point.
I/we have never made that comparison. You need to hold your gotchas 'til you got one!
Please, tell us one more time. We didn't get your point.
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http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Walt changing his tune on Carr... here's his updated mock for the Browns...
1a #12 - Derek Carr, QB Fresno St
1b #26 - A.J. Johnson, ILB Tennessee
2- Lamarcus Joyner, S FSU
3a - Michael Dyer, RB LOU
3b - Odell Beckham, WR, LSU
I like the Carr and Johnson picks (as of now). We need a WR somewhere in there, probably even earlier, but Beckham is a hell of a player. Also, I'd rather have OLine over RB, but it is just a mock and a much better one than his past couple...
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http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Walt changing his tune on Carr... here's his updated mock for the Browns...
1a #12 - Derek Carr, QB Fresno St
1b #26 - A.J. Johnson, ILB Tennessee
2- Lamarcus Joyner, S FSU
3a - Michael Dyer, RB LOU
3b - Odell Beckham, WR, LSU
I like the Carr and Johnson picks (as of now). We need a WR somewhere in there, probably even earlier, but Beckham is a hell of a player. Also, I'd rather have OLine over RB, but it is just a mock and a much better one than his past couple...
I like all the picks on offense a lot. We have a #1 and a #2 target (Gordon/Cameron) so adding a guy like Beckham to go with Little, Bess, and Benjamin seems about right.
My problem is Walter taking a 2nd round safety when our starters are playing great football, probably because he doesn't know who Tashaun Gipson IS! I'd take a TE there.
Don't mind drafting an ILB, though. We're thin. He better be able to run and cover.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Walt changing his tune on Carr... here's his updated mock for the Browns...
1a #12 - Derek Carr, QB Fresno St
1b #26 - A.J. Johnson, ILB Tennessee
2- Lamarcus Joyner, S FSU
3a - Michael Dyer, RB LOU
3b - Odell Beckham, WR, LSU
I like the Carr and Johnson picks (as of now). We need a WR somewhere in there, probably even earlier, but Beckham is a hell of a player. Also, I'd rather have OLine over RB, but it is just a mock and a much better one than his past couple...
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I like all the picks on offense a lot. We have a #1 and a #2 target (Gordon/Cameron) so adding a guy like Beckham to go with Little, Bess, and Benjamin seems about right.
My problem is Walter taking a 2nd round safety when our starters are playing great football, probably because he doesn't know who Tashaun Gipson IS! I'd take a TE there.
Don't mind drafting an ILB, though. We're thin. He better be able to run and cover.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Walt changing his tune on Carr... here's his updated mock for the Browns...
1a #12 - Derek Carr, QB Fresno St
1b #26 - A.J. Johnson, ILB Tennessee
2- Lamarcus Joyner, S FSU
3a - Michael Dyer, RB LOU
3b - Odell Beckham, WR, LSU
I like the Carr and Johnson picks (as of now). We need a WR somewhere in there, probably even earlier, but Beckham is a hell of a player. Also, I'd rather have OLine over RB, but it is just a mock and a much better one than his past couple...
I would absolutely love this draft. I have Dyer and Johnson in my last mock, and getting Carr as well as Joyner would be perfect. Honestly, Dyer is probably the best RB available in terms of talent. Johnson is the top ILB and Joyner is one of the top S. We'd be getting high quality players even into round 3.I like all the picks on offense a lot. We have a #1 and a #2 target (Gordon/Cameron) so adding a guy like Beckham to go with Little, Bess, and Benjamin seems about right.
My problem is Walter taking a 2nd round safety when our starters are playing great football, probably because he doesn't know who Tashaun Gipson IS! I'd take a TE there.
Don't mind drafting an ILB, though. We're thin. He better be able to run and cover.
Shep, Gipson has played very well, much better than I expected him to, I'll admit. But Joyner was the fastest recruit in the nation in his class and has been very productive for the Noles. He fits Horton's profile, he is a small guy who is a big hitter...but he also has the ball hawking skills of a true FS. He was recruited as a corner but his size was a hindrance, so they moved him to safety. I feel he can be very, very good.
To me, adding a playmaking FS would do a little more than adding a second TE. Even if Gipson is playing lights out.
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I look at it like this: What could Joyner do so much better than Gipson that we would win more games? When Gipson is playing great in both phases and we give up a league low YPA? It's virtually impossible at that position to be SO much better than Gipson that it would actually move the dial.
Based on Gipson's career arc and age, I imagine he's the guy teams are looking for... not looking to bench. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Now another TE does because you put them on the field together a LOT. You're not gonna put a third safety on the field much so you're really just trading one good player for another good player at FS.
I still think our defense is going to get even better, which would make them a championship defense. It's going to be tough for us to do much on that side of the ball to change or fortunes next year. We cover, we sack, we stop the run.
I think it's about the offense... and based on how we play with anyone not named Weeden, not really all that much. We need to run the ball better, for sure. We need our long-term solution at QB. Maybe another weapon in the pass game.
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Tour, college and the NFL are two different things entirely as far as the dominance of the QB position. So-so quarterbacks at Florida (three times under 2 coaches!), Tennessee (the year AFTER Manning), Oklahoma, and a lot of other big programs have won it all. There's no weighted draft and about 100 D1 programs instead of 32, so you like your chances of winning championships by simply being bigger and/or faster than everybody else... instead of waging war over 5 or so legit high school QBs a year.
College is coach/recruiter driven; pros are quarterback driven.
Please, tell us one more time. We didn't get your point.
Please, tell us one more time. We didn't get your point.
I did not see a point.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
1a #12 - Derek Carr, QB Fresno St - Sr.
1b #26 - A.J. Johnson, ILB Tennessee - Jr.
2- Lamarcus Joyner, S FSU - Sr.
3a - Michael Dyer, RB LOU - Jr.
3b - Odell Beckham, WR, LSU - Jr.
What is the value of:
1. A 5'8", big-hitting FS in a league that is legislating big hits in the secondary out of the game?
2. A RB that has been dismissed from not one, but two schools for disciplinary reasons? Would concern me even more if he declares as a Jr. rather than sticking for his Sr. year.
On the plus side Johnson is a good pick, if he comes out. Just be careful filling out that card as he could be one of up to four A.J. Johnsons in the 2014 draft.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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