Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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I'll take a chance on him If banner and Lombardi like him. I'm giving this ownership/front office the stamp of approval thus far.
I'll take a chance on him If banner and Lombardi like him. I'm giving this ownership/front office the stamp of approval thus far.
I'll root for him as well if our FO thinks he's the guy. I just hope they don't think he's the guy.
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Assuming the Browns draft a long-term guy in round one, I think neither Campbell nor Hoyer would accept being the guy who isn't Now OR The Future, you know what I'm saying? If you aren't starting the opener and you aren't (say) Manziel, you're really just wasting a year of your career after showing you can play.
I think the Browns would basically have TWO guys who should be starting and then mentoring when they only need one. Let someone else have the other one to mentor THEIR rookie... and take one of their higher picks for the privilege!
Assuming the Browns draft a long-term guy in round one, I think neither Campbell nor Hoyer would accept being the guy who isn't Now OR The Future, you know what I'm saying? If you aren't starting the opener and you aren't (say) Manziel, you're really just wasting a year of your career after showing you can play.
I think the Browns would basically have TWO guys who should be starting and then mentoring when they only need one. Let someone else have the other one to mentor THEIR rookie... and take one of their higher picks for the privilege!
Assuming Campbell plays light out the rest of the way- it gets interesting. I thought he was on a one year contract- but wrong-o on my part. We have him for 2014 on the cheap. Hoyer is getting paid peanuts. Sure, we're going to trade one of them-not- because Weeden is so gone, it's unfathomable the Browns would even consider keeping him as a backup, and no way you can get two quarterbacks hurt in the same year. In case you didn't notice Green Bay is in even worse shape than the Browns with Rodgers and now Wallace out. Tennessee is going to be relying on Fitzpatrick, and if he gets the injury bug, they're down to a guy by the name of Rusty Smith. Ever hear of him? They say you can't have enough cornerbacks- at least for next year, the Browns can't have too many quarterbacks. Let's say Campbell does play lights out the rest of the way- what is a reasonable offer for the guy, assuming Lombardi is convinced Hoyer can be "The Guy" for the next 5-8 years? I'd want nothing less than a TR level fleecing of a needy team.
McCarron is so limited and TRULY a "game manager." I think he'll make somebody a nice backup for a long time. Feels a little too Trent Edwards for me. I see him in round 3 with no upside.
Carr and Manziel continued their rises yesterday and Hundley is doing some nice damage control. My gut says one of those three. And thanks, Couch, I like your posts, too.
BUT... I think the Browns do dig Manziel. He's 20. He's proven he can pass from the pocket. He's faster and taller than Wilson. He'd get a year to get physically stronger and watch Hoyer. Don't be too shocked.
Based on not getting near Bridgewater or Mariota, I'm paying the most attention to those three guys.
I finally had a chance to take a brief perusal of Johnny Football's talents. I'm with TC on Manziel. The Browns will IMO give him serious negative points for the off-field crap. Did see him make a couple NFL caliber throws, but his propensity to take of running is going to get him killed in the NFL in short order- he'll get broken in half faster than you can say RG III blown ACL.
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Hard to say he lacks a leadership personality when he was out on the field playing ridiculously hurt yesterday doing everything he could to help his team win.
Hard to say he lacks a leadership personality when he was out on the field playing ridiculously hurt yesterday doing everything he could to help his team win.
True. I just have never seen him talking to his offense on the sideline and there was the playoff game a couple years ago he took himself out of when the Bears were still in it.
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Some of you guys are behind the curve. Manziel is running less and navigating the pocket more. He put up 490 yards last week, mostly from the pocket, almost like he was showing scouts that he can do either and both.
He has a better arm than Dalton and wheels/creativity probably only topped by a healthy Mike Vick. He doesn't do drugs or beat up undersized Asian students or anything. He likes to have fun and he's 20. How dare he?
It'll be interesting. Carr, Hundley, and Manziel. Which one is best suited for the Browns? Carr is mature and experienced while Hundley and Manziel are both 20.
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Some of you guys are behind the curve. Manziel is running less and navigating the pocket more. He put up 490 yards last week, mostly from the pocket, almost like he was showing scouts that he can do either and both.
He has a better arm than Dalton and wheels/creativity probably only topped by a healthy Mike Vick. He doesn't do drugs or beat up undersized Asian students or anything. He likes to have fun and he's 20. How dare he?
It'll be interesting. Carr, Hundley, and Manziel. Which one is best suited for the Browns? Carr is mature and experienced while Hundley and Manziel are both 20.
Some of you guys are behind the curve. Manziel is running less and navigating the pocket more. He put up 490 yards last week, mostly from the pocket, almost like he was showing scouts that he can do either and both.
He has a better arm than Dalton and wheels/creativity probably only topped by a healthy Mike Vick. He doesn't do drugs or beat up undersized Asian students or anything. He likes to have fun and he's 20. How dare he?
It'll be interesting. Carr, Hundley, and Manziel. Which one is best suited for the Browns? Carr is mature and experienced while Hundley and Manziel are both 20.
I go back and forth on Manziel. If we can get him, let him sit for a year maybe, just to get used to the system, maybe get some maturity that seems to be missing, he could be special for us.
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While we're on the QB subject... Cutler is a FA this year. I don't know how old he is and i'm too lazy to look it up but is there any interest there? Cutler, Campbell, Hoyer next year and use the draft for everything else we need.
While we're on the QB subject... Cutler is a FA this year. I don't know how old he is and i'm too lazy to look it up but is there any interest there?
Jay is 30... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm
Cutler has all the tangibles to be sure, but has never pulled it all altogether.
I just think he is a giant QB tease at the NFL level... a perennial 2nd tier QB with a penchant for critical turnovers.
I'm on board with (Steelers drafting Manziel)!
Patchwork O-line he don't stand a chance.
Actually with his scrambling ability, Manziel might be the perfect pick for a patchwork line.
While I could accept Manziel as a Brown, I'd have to also accept that he is a swashbuckler. I'd have to accept that while he will win games we would have had no right to win, he will also lose games we should have won.
Never occurred to me until I wrote the above, but that is how I felt about another recently retired, "great" QB. Manziel may be the 2nd coming of Brett Favre.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Honestly, he looks like Brownie
LMAO... the demented one for sure...
McCarron is so limited and TRULY a "game manager."
Agree on game manager, which by the way is not a bad thing...
But "limited"??? Seriously?
Moves well... not slow... arm is plenty strong enough... great touch... and has it between his ears in spades.
A review of his performance vs LSU...
"Frankly, NFL scouts probably couldn't care less about McCarron's Heisman chances. They likely were instead noting the poise McCarron demonstrated on the big stage, as well as decision-making and easily caught passes that helped guide the Tide to the victory." - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com
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Just read something interesting about Manziel brought up by his passing "guru," George Whitfield: He has enormous hands like Drew Brees, which allows him to really torque the ball, put everything he has into it without losing spin or accuracy. He wears a size 15 shoe, bigger than Roethlisberger, another Whitfield protege (who is 6'5").
Brugler was saying that while Manziel may not have a "great" arm, he certainly has a good one. He throws accurately to all parts of the field.
Sure, the Browns are gonna have to make sure that off-field Johnny starts growing up... because on-field Johnny is willing to play hurt and will spark any team with his creativity and fire.
I can make a case for Manziel (just did) and Carr (quick feet, great arm talent, mature, can hone footwork for a year and then provide legit Top Five talent) and Hundley (freakish measurables, inconsistent, only 20 like Manziel). I can't make a case that McCarron will ever be as good as Brian Hoyer. Unlike the other three, there isn't that chance that he could be special. At least IMHO.
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The hands thing was included in the feature Countdown did on Wilson this past Sunday. Turns out he has sizable meat hooks as well...
And, Shep, I assume all here post their honest opinions...
I get that McCarron plays on a great team... THE dominant college team in the 2010's. But the turnover on that team has been substantial over the past 3 seasons. Player changes at nearly every position save one... QB. My experience tells me that when you change all but one variable and get the same result, then the unchanged variable is controlling the outcome.
It also does not hurt that those outcomes come against the best competition available.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
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What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
the first time I saw him throw a 5 yard out and it looked like the ball was spinning end over end, I was done evaluating him.What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
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Small guys that like to run around tend not to last long in the NFL.
I don't see Bret Favre in Manziel.
Maybe Jake Plummer.
Zombo
Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.Zombo said:
Small guys that like to run around tend not to last long in the NFL.
I don't see Bret Favre in Manziel.
Maybe Jake Plummer.
Zombo
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What did you mean about honest opinions? Oh... ha. I get it now. Never mind. I meant, "In my humble opinion."
I think the consistent factor in Alabama that overrates their RBs AND QBs is the absurd offensive line size and quality. They beat up other teams. And because they always field an NFL caliber defense, it's perfectly okay for McCarron to throw for 142 yards.
He's just so tough to evaluate.
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The hands thing was included in the feature Countdown did on Wilson this past Sunday. Turns out he has sizable meat hooks as well...
And, Shep, I assume all here post their honest opinions...
I get that McCarron plays on a great team... THE dominant college team in the 2010's. But the turnover on that team has been substantial over the past 3 seasons. Player changes at nearly every position save one... QB. My experience tells me that when you change all but one variable and get the same result, then the unchanged variable is controlling the outcome.
It also does not hurt that those outcomes come against the best competition available.
The hands thing was included in the feature Countdown did on Wilson this past Sunday. Turns out he has sizable meat hooks as well...
And, Shep, I assume all here post their honest opinions...
I get that McCarron plays on a great team... THE dominant college team in the 2010's. But the turnover on that team has been substantial over the past 3 seasons. Player changes at nearly every position save one... QB. My experience tells me that when you change all but one variable and get the same result, then the unchanged variable is controlling the outcome.
It also does not hurt that those outcomes come against the best competition available.
There is another unchanged variable you may be missing... his name is Nick Saban...
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Point taken 23... but as great as coaches may be, players still have to deliver.
Raises an interesting point though...
Everyone says that Saben "has the best talent". And not just collectively, but at individual positions.
Why would he settle for a lesser talent at the most important position on the field???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Point taken 23... but as great as coaches may be, players still have to deliver.
Raises an interesting point though...
Everyone says that Saben "has the best talent". And not just collectively, but at individual positions.
Why would he settle for a lesser talent at the most important position on the field???
He's a good college QB, nobodys debating that. And he may even stick in the NFL for a while, but he'll never be a top 10 QB. One of those high floor, low ceiling guys like Dalton.Point taken 23... but as great as coaches may be, players still have to deliver.
Raises an interesting point though...
Everyone says that Saben "has the best talent". And not just collectively, but at individual positions.
Why would he settle for a lesser talent at the most important position on the field???
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Tour, college and the NFL are two different things entirely as far as the dominance of the QB position. So-so quarterbacks at Florida (three times under 2 coaches!), Tennessee (the year AFTER Manning), Oklahoma, and a lot of other big programs have won it all. There's no weighted draft and about 100 D1 programs instead of 32, so you like your chances of winning championships by simply being bigger and/or faster than everybody else... instead of waging war over 5 or so legit high school QBs a year.
College is coach/recruiter driven; pros are quarterback driven.
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Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.Zombo said:
Small guys that like to run around tend not to last long in the NFL.
I don't see Bret Favre in Manziel.
Maybe Jake Plummer.
Zombo
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Depends on how good they are at avoiding contact and how smart they are....Manziel seems to avoid contact and he may be the smartest of the whole bunch.
dude he's playing against college players. in the NFL one big hit by soemone 300lbs+ and it's all over for johnny football.
and believe me there will be a lot of big mandikas standing in line waiting to punish that spoiled brat.
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