Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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You just said it Shep- the College game and Pro game are two different animals. Johnny Football relies on his legs (panics if you will) @ the first sign of pressure. Not buying your "he's standing in the pocket more" mantra. He's an elusive runner alright- but in the Pro game you need be unelusive but once, and your season- or career is over. Me and Mik are seeing the same thing- Manziel already has gotten dinged by the college lightweights- when Ngata sits on him, it's a trip to the hospital with multiple broken ribs.
Yeah, he looked pretty good against Alabama- how many of those guys on the Tide's roster are going to be playing on Sunday? Their entire front seven? If you haven't noticed, their secondary is a mess this year. Ever think Johnny Football scrambles around because he can't pre-read a college defense? It gets 10X tougher in the pros.
Wow Alabama only has the 11 rank passing defense in the FBS. Man I would hate to think how good they might be if the secondary wasn't in such a mess.
Number of teams that have thrown for 250 yards or more against Alabama 1.
Number of teams that have scored more than 17 points against Alabama 1.
Name the player and team that Alabama spent 6+ months preparing for this off season? Johnny Manziel and Texas A&M.
I came into the season not liking Manziel at all but man the more I watch him the more I like the way he plays. This dude isn't QBing for a team that gives up like 15 points a game he has to score points.. Texas A&M has one of the worst defense in the whole FBS.
Everyone says the SEC is the be all end all for football, the toughest conference there is and yet every week Manziel is tearing it up.
I came into the season not liking Manziel at all but man the more I watch him the more I like the way he plays. This dude isn't QBing for a team that gives up like 15 points a game he has to score points..
Much as you, I was a hater.. then grew enamoured... Now?
I'm cooling on Johnny as our QB for two reasons:
1. The team we are close to being is only going to give up 15 points or so a game. We won't need a gunslinger and I do not think Johnny has it in him to "dial back" his aggression (recklessness)... not for a few seasons anyway. This is the basis for the Favre comparison I made a couple days ago.
2. I was seeing Johnny as one of those QBs who was smart enough to avoid hits while on the run, e.g., Russell Wilson. Then in the past couple games he took some big hits. I now think significant injury awaits him in the NFL.
It doesn't have to make sense, I'm going to be stubborn on this. I have to, after all of the garbage I talked about him in the offseason.
I'm not sure stubborn is allowed here...
Here's an article that praises Skrine and Gipson...
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/11/cleveland_browns_secondary_sho.html
Good article... shows that putting in the hours studying tape is a key to playing well at the NFL level.
I really wish there was a free site with the pass defense metrics quoted in the article
In my eyes, a successful defense needs three things: a badass ballhawk safety, an intelligent and hard hitting MLB and an effective pass rushing OLB. Those are primary needs. With those pieces in place, you can begin to focus on building a strong secondary and strong defensive line.
We have two of the three, and a solid safety who is neither a liability nor a playmaker. We have a solid line, a great CB, a solid #2 CB, a run supporting SS, and a plethora of rushers. We're one playmaker away from having the absolute best defense in the NFL.
We're at a point now where we can afford to take BPA almost all draft. We don't have a need so glaring that we will have to reach (QB excluded). If the BPA in the second is a safety, id like to see us go safety. If it's a TE, I would like to go TE.
Also a Reed fan. Flip a coin between he and Ronnie Lott. Ed had more big years; Ronnie had more years. Seems both end their careers with the Jets...
Kinda agree on your 3 keys. If talking 3-4, then to your three I have to add the NT for a total of four. For a 4-3 I can stay with 3, but would sub a pass rushing DE for your OLB. Clearly we have our NT, but I think we are still shy both an ILB and an OLB from being a dominant D.
On the BPA approach... I'm right there with you. Hopped on that bandwagon a week or so ago. And with my McCarron fettish I don't even exclude the QB position.
And after all that... you know it's coming... "the best teams are the teams with the best quarterbacks."
Which is appropriate for this thread... and this thread only!!!Awful lot of saftey talk for a QB thread lately...
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Jack Del Rio may have gotten credit for a win as head coach but Peyton Manning runs half the team.
That's the point.
Bad coaches can win with great talent.
That's the point.
Bad coaches can win with great talent.
And great talent can lose with bad coaching. Again, I use the KC Chiefs as Exhibit A.
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Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us.
I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them.
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Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us.
I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them.
Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us.
I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them.
Manning's health is an issue in that game.
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For sure, but something tells me he'll be fine. He doesn't need to practice (as he just said) so he can pretty much spend the week healing. He doesn't run so as long as he can plant and throw, he's good.
It's gonna be a situation where Alex Smith has to make plays... which he's proven he can do, more than once. But he still seems a little uncomfortable in this offense. Dude was literally the most accurate passer in the NFL last year but isn't anywhere near those numbers now. It's weird.
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For sure, but something tells me he'll be fine. He doesn't need to practice (as he just said) so he can pretty much spend the week healing. He doesn't run so as long as he can plant and throw, he's good.
It's gonna be a situation where Alex Smith has to make plays... which he's proven he can do, more than once. But he still seems a little uncomfortable in this offense. Dude was literally the most accurate passer in the NFL last year but isn't anywhere near those numbers now. It's weird.
For sure, but something tells me he'll be fine. He doesn't need to practice (as he just said) so he can pretty much spend the week healing. He doesn't run so as long as he can plant and throw, he's good.
It's gonna be a situation where Alex Smith has to make plays... which he's proven he can do, more than once. But he still seems a little uncomfortable in this offense. Dude was literally the most accurate passer in the NFL last year but isn't anywhere near those numbers now. It's weird.
If there was ever a game to worry about Manning being injured, it's this one.
Division rivals, playing for first, Manning has an injured ankle and the Chiefs have the best pass rushing defense in the league.
It's almost like a movie.
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Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us.
I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them.
Actually, the Chiefs had talent everywhere but where it matters most by miles, quarterback. Then they got a competent one (and that's about all he is this year, competent) and they're winning. Much like us.
I don't see Smith or Dalton in a Super Bowl, though, and I'm a Smith fan. Ditto McCarron and Murray. Probably Hoyer, too. I expect the Broncos to dismantle the Chiefs. Hell, we should've beaten them.
that's because they sucked for 10 years and had #1 top ten picks who they scored on for those many years.
yes, all they needed was a QB and some offensive weapons. too bad bowe blows and smokes.
andy reid fell into the perfect head coaching position. but it shows you how bitched-out they are (the FO and coaching staff) to play bowe given his problems.
think andy's sweating in his jockeys.
god damn right.
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I don't know or care enough about the Chiefs history but I kind of wonder how many of those high pics are still there and developing. Unlike the Cleveland Browns who usually have a new front office and coaching staff with every cycle of the moon who all feel the need to purge the entire draft of their predecessors.
WSS
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We've had mostly good drafts, which is why so much of our team is homegrown, including UDFAs: Thomas, Mack, Lauvao, Schwartz, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Cameron, Kiki, Taylor, Ruben, DQJ, Robertson (kind of), Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Ward, McFadden, Bryant.
We just whiffed on the 2012 first round. Badly. But we've accumulated a lot of drafted or UDFA talent everywhere but QB and RB. This team is really built for the long haul, very much like the Steelers.
And that's prior to an offseason teed up to be epic, with 10 picks and tons of cash. I think the next 10 years will be a fun time to be a Browns fan, including stadium and uniform upgrades. I think we'll be relevant.
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We've had mostly good drafts, which is why so much of our team is homegrown, including UDFAs: Thomas, Mack, Lauvao, Schwartz, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Cameron, Kiki, Taylor, Ruben, DQJ, Robertson (kind of), Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Ward, McFadden, Bryant.
We just whiffed on the 2012 first round. Badly. But we've accumulated a lot of drafted or UDFA talent everywhere but QB and RB. This team is really built for the long haul, very much like the Steelers.
And that's prior to an offseason teed up to be epic, with 10 picks and tons of cash. I think the next 10 years will be a fun time to be a Browns fan, including stadium and uniform upgrades. I think we'll be relevant.
We've had mostly good drafts, which is why so much of our team is homegrown, including UDFAs: Thomas, Mack, Lauvao, Schwartz, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Cameron, Kiki, Taylor, Ruben, DQJ, Robertson (kind of), Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Ward, McFadden, Bryant.
We just whiffed on the 2012 first round. Badly. But we've accumulated a lot of drafted or UDFA talent everywhere but QB and RB. This team is really built for the long haul, very much like the Steelers.
And that's prior to an offseason teed up to be epic, with 10 picks and tons of cash. I think the next 10 years will be a fun time to be a Browns fan, including stadium and uniform upgrades. I think we'll be relevant.
I agree & the Richardson trade has cemented Fan confidence in this Front Office, something that has long been missing.
Mike
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Yep the future is bright.
Jared Abberderis is the best wide reciever in college.
Blake Bortles game winning throw was amazing....maybe the best game winning catch I've ever seen.
Michigan blows and all their players want out lol.
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Bortles had another solid day.
27/38 404 yards 4 TDs 0 INT
I'll take this love affair to the grave. I think he'll have a better NFL career than many of the top QB's in this draft.
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Bortles had another solid day.
27/38 404 yards 4 TDs 0 INT
I'll take this love affair to the grave. I think he'll have a better NFL career than many of the top QB's in this draft.
Bortles had another solid day.
27/38 404 yards 4 TDs 0 INT
I'll take this love affair to the grave. I think he'll have a better NFL career than many of the top QB's in this draft.
who?
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Bryce Petty is likely going to be the steal of the draft. He's like Mariota, but with the tradeoff of rushing ability for pocket presence and passing skills.
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That's why I put Bryce Petty in my draft mock, dumb as it is at this point.
I honestly think he may be the only qb in this draft that I would trade up for...
he's elite in qb smarts, and is mobile, and really, really accurate.
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I don't think many people are expecting Petty to enter this year's draft... but, you never know. He has been the best college QB this season and if he declares, his name will fire up draft boards...
Blake Bortles is the QB for UCF. He's 6'4" 240lbs. Really having a great season and is starting to turn some heads. The game against Louisville where he lead his team to 38 points against the now #1 ranked scoring defense was impressive. He is a junior and not many are expecting him to declare this year, but again you never know.
#Justsayin' -
There are a lot of underclassmen who will need to decide if they're coming out, or staying back another year:
Bryce Petty - BAY
Johnny Manziel - TA&M - pretty clear he'll be declaring
Teddy Twatwater - LSU - no brainer
Marcus Mariota - ORE
Blake Bortles - UCF
Brett Hundley - UCLA
Kevin Hogan - Stan
The seniors are:
Derek Carr - FresSt
Tajh Boyd - CLEM
Zach Mettenberger - LSU
AJ McCarron - ALA
Aaron Murray - UGA
Stephen Morris - MIA
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