Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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We'll see today against Manziel. It's a huge day for both guys, really.
I like the mobility of Carr, Manziel, and Hundley... and I think Chud does, too. He'd love to toss in some designed QB sweeps like SF and some RO like he ran with Newton.
Really looking forward to the A&M/ LSU tilt today...
Not looking forward to any Browns' QB-sweeps... Can't you tell Chud to put that out of his mind?
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As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
At the NFL level, I think it's more about minimizing the hitches that you can (patting the ball, dropping your shoulder, extended delivery, etc.) and utilizing the others (lower release point, misguided feet, etc.).
Agree
Fundamentally speaking, Hundley has a problem with his footwork and winds up on longer throws. His footwork isn't bad per se, he just takes a number of useless steps and sometimes doesn't set correctly. These are things that can be fixed, as they aren't motions that he constantly does not are they unique to his throwing style.His wind up bugs me. A QB that for no apparent reason is inconsistant in his mechanics actually bothers me more than one who is consistantly off.
If he had a long delivery, a pitchers wind up (cough, cough) or a wandering elbow, that would be a little different. Those are fatal flaws that are very hard to overcome for a QB.LOL... I think you meant to say (wheeze, wheeze). Wheezy is one of the worst I've seen...
All in all, I think the best way to take a QB is to find a guy who fits your mold and has the least amount of "unfixables". He may not always be a first rounder. If you like a guy in the mid to late rounds, taking him and learning him up is never a bad move.Agree... QBs with perfect mechanics are just rare. The closest to perfection seem to either have a coach (Elway) or QB (Mannings, Luck) for a father. But if the head is good, it can go a long way toward overcoming non-fatal flaws.
I'm actually becoming more and more impressed with Hundley's athleticism and attitude the more I research him. He reminds me of Manuel, a leader with a great personality and endless athletic talent.
What are your thoughts on either Hundley with our first pick or Bortles in the second (assuming he declares)?
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
The thing I like most of Bortles is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
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The thing I like most of Bortles is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
The thing I like most of Hundley is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
When did UCLA become a mid-major?
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The thing I like most of Hundley is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
When did UCLA become a mid-major?
When did UCLA become a mid-major?
I meant Bortles, not Hundley. My mistake.
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Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
#Justsayin' -
Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
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all this means nothing. Great QB's are made in the NFL, with good coaching.. College means about squat. Look at Tom Brady, he was a 6th round afterthought. Then there was Tim Couch, and Ryan Leaf,. There is no for sure fire way to tell if a college QB will do well in the NFL.
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, and Gino Torretta won the Heisman.
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all this means nothing. Great QB's are made in the NFL, with good coaching.. College means about squat. Look at Tom Brady, he was a 6th round afterthought. Then there was Tim Couch, and Ryan Leaf,. There is no for sure fire way to tell if a college QB will do well in the NFL.
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, and Gino Torretta won the Heisman.
But on the flip side, there's players like Andrew Luck and Cam Newton who succeed at both levels.all this means nothing. Great QB's are made in the NFL, with good coaching.. College means about squat. Look at Tom Brady, he was a 6th round afterthought. Then there was Tim Couch, and Ryan Leaf,. There is no for sure fire way to tell if a college QB will do well in the NFL.
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, and Gino Torretta won the Heisman.
You're absolutely correct. All it proves is that there's no one way to find a QB, but there's about a million ways to not find one.
All you can really do is look for the qualities you deem most important and find the guy who possesses the most of them.
After all, part of the success has to be attributed to the system. Tom Brady, Matt Ryan and Peyton Manning wouldn't be as successful in a system like San Fran's. Flacco wouldn't be as successful in Kansas City. Stafford wouldn't be as successful in Carolina.
There's about a 15 item checklist that I, personally, have...and I'm no scout. The items on that list are weighted and of this years crop, there's about three QB's I'd love to have. Not all of them are in the first round, either.
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so it comes down to the scout, who see's these attributes with his own eyes. They never get the credit though. I'm sure Bill Belicheck wasn't at meatchicken games, watching Tom Brady.
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
Unfortunately for CLE, this monster push from him means that he will be drafted before CLE's pick. But I've been on Carr's case for a long time. He's a phenomenal passer that elevates his otherwise pitiful team.
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so it comes down to the scout, who see's these attributes with his own eyes. They never get the credit though. I'm sure Bill Belicheck wasn't at meatchicken games, watching Tom Brady.
so it comes down to the scout, who see's these attributes with his own eyes. They never get the credit though. I'm sure Bill Belicheck wasn't at meatchicken games, watching Tom Brady.
It doesn't come down to him, but he is involved. It's a thankless job.
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I just read that Aaron Murray tore his ACL. Somewhere else had him as a 3-5 round pick. I would be totally for drafting him in the 5th round, kind of do what Washington did last year with drafting two QBs.
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Well after watching Mettenberger, Manziel, Hundley and the late-coming Petty fairly closely yesterday, the one that arguably had the worst game impressed me the most... Manziel.
One of the issues I've had with Manziel is what I saw as his swashbuckling, do-or-die style. When he threw he just seemed to take too many chances for my taste... chances that he was getting away with at the collegiate level, but would not at the pro level. And all too often he chose to run too quickly. I did not see either tendency yesterday.
Yesterday I saw a patient QB who surveyed the field thoroughly and sometimes exhaustively. I can only recall one forced pass, and it was on a 4th and goal play when he was under a big rush. He still ran numerous times, but as a last resort. He still ran into more collisions than I want to see, but he did survive.
A&M ran into a LSU buzzsaw yesterday and while Manziel could not overcome that fact, he showed me something in defeat that he had not in victory.
On the other hand, the limited stock I held in A&M's WR, Evans, fell. I did not like him showing up his QB when he overthrew him once early... especially given that Evans dropped a slant earlier. That "attytood" just looks like trouble down the road. Also, clearly as the game went on, Evans was reading a different D than Johnny was. I am not sure Manziel's reads were right most, let alone, all of the time, but I'd bet a few shekels on him.
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Carr punched his ticket to the Heisman cermoney yesterday with 500 yards and 5 TDs. His numbers are sick.
I thought Hundley played very well in a loss that can't be pinned on him (38-33). If the Browns are still smitten with Hoyer (I am), and Hundley does declare, the math works fantastically. A full year of coaching from Chud and Norv would be exactly what he needs. Good kid, off the charts ability.
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Bryce Petty and co. had a disaster of a game vs Ok. State.
But I really like his composure and smarts on the field.
Seems that Hundley, Manziel, Mettenberger...don't have nearly
as much upside as Carr in the pros.
I would really love to watch Weeden and Campbell start next year...for some other team..
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Carr punched his ticket to the Heisman cermoney yesterday with 500 yards and 5 TDs. His numbers are sick.
I thought Hundley played very well in a loss that can't be pinned on him (38-33). If the Browns are still smitten with Hoyer (I am), and Hundley does declare, the math works fantastically. A full year of coaching from Chud and Norv would be exactly what he needs. Good kid, off the charts ability.
Carr punched his ticket to the Heisman cermoney yesterday with 500 yards and 5 TDs. His numbers are sick.
I thought Hundley played very well in a loss that can't be pinned on him (38-33). If the Browns are still smitten with Hoyer (I am), and Hundley does declare, the math works fantastically. A full year of coaching from Chud and Norv would be exactly what he needs. Good kid, off the charts ability.
If Hundley does declare, I think we would be stupid not to take him. I would actually advocate a trade up for him. Of all the prospects, I believe he has the highest upside, he just needs to sit and learn from a good NFL coach.
It's too good to be true, however. It just wouldn't be right for Cleveland to get lucky and have the perfect scenario unfold itself.
Besides, I do like Bortles a lot. A lot.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I know, Couch. Sometimes things make almost too much sense. If we end up 7th or 8th and get Hundley there and then a terrific complementary WR at 24th... and then one of the best backs in the draft in the 2nd round? I'll weep. It'll be way too logical.
I know, Couch. Sometimes things make almost too much sense. If we end up 7th or 8th and get Hundley there and then a terrific complementary WR at 24th... and then one of the best backs in the draft in the 2nd round? I'll weep. It'll be way too logical.
I'm in the same boat. That would be a perfect draft.
When your needs align with BPA, it's like heaven.
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Sorry Shep. We will not be that lucky or smart. Remember we have Lombardi in the FO. We will reach for players who will be busts. Sorry after todays game this team has beaten down my joy of hope.
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