Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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i guarantee four months from now half these posts you call great and half the QBs you've touted will be gone like a fart in the wind.
upside down and twisted.
that's why these threads suck dick.
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2014 Cleveland Browns NFL Mock Drafts (November 22 Edition)
COMMENTARY | It's somewhat depressing thinking about the 2014 NFL Draft today. After all, the Cleveland Browns are very much so in the playoff hunt as they prepare to face off with the Pittsburgh Steelers on November 24. It is, nevertheless, that time of year when draft experts peek inside their crystal balls. Here are some early ideas of what the Browns might be thinking for next spring.
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Note: The Browns have two first round picks; their own, and the one they picked up by trading running back Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts.
2014 Cleveland Browns NFL Mock Drafts (November 22 edition): Shutdown Corner
What immediately jumped out regarding the latest mock draft put out by Eric Edholm was where he has the Browns picking. He sees Cleveland finishing 2013 with such a record that would have them select at 14, lower than anybody else mentioned in this piece placed the team. Edholm put the Baltimore Ravens at 11 and the Pittsburgh Steelers at 13.
First pick: WR Marqise Lee, USC: Lee, after 11 games in 2013, has reeled in 44 passes for 604 yards and two touchdowns. He is listed at 6-0 and 195 pounds. The reasoning behind this selection? From Edholm: "The Browns would love to find their future quarterback here, but with no clear-cut option after the top guys have gone, they can afford to wait until their second first-round pick to consider that player."
Second pick, 26 overall: QB Zach Mettenberger, LSU: The 6-5 and 230-pound senior is a big thrower ideal for an offense run by Rob Chudzinski and Norv Turner. Odds are that he will be the best available quarterback if the Browns are forced to wait this long to use that Indianapolis pick. With that said, I cannot envision a scenario in which Cleveland doesn't pick up a QB in the first round.
2014 Cleveland Browns NFL Mock Drafts (November 22 edition): Walter Football
First pick: QB Derek Carr, Fresno State: No messing around here, as this mock draft has the Browns going for a QB right away. Carr's stock seems to rise with every weekend. The 6-3 and 218-pound senior has thus far completed 69.5 percent of his pass attempts. He has 32 touchdown passes and only four interceptions. Carr has also only taken eight sacks.
Interesting note: According to this mock draft, Johnny Manziel of Texas A&M won't be taken until 11, so he would, in this hypothetical world, be there for Cleveland. Hmm.
Second pick: ILB A.J. Johnson, Tennessee: The Browns could certainly use the help in the middle of the field. This draft is also assuming that Cleveland will utilize the second first-rounder a la the New York Giants and merely go with the best available player.
2014 Cleveland Browns NFL Mock Drafts (November 22 edition): Bleacher Report
First pick: Carr: NFL Draft guru Matt Miller also sees the Browns taking the quarterback out of Fresno State, this time with the ninth overall pick. Carr is advertised to have a strong arm similar to that of Brandon Weeden, but with far more accuracy and more composure. Sign me up.
For what it's worth, Miller sees Johnny Football going off of the board at 12, and he has Marqise Lee falling all the day down to 17.
Second pick: WR Odell Beckham Jr., LSU: Miller envisions the Browns having to wait around until 27 to use the pick that the team acquired from the Colts. Beckham is a finalist for the Paul Hornung Award (most versatile player) and a semifinalist for the Biletnikoff Award (best receiver). He has 51 catches and eight touchdowns heading into November 23.
2014 Cleveland Browns NFL Mock Drafts (November 22 edition): Rob Rang
First pick: WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson: I somewhat find this hard to accept, as Rang only has two quarterbacks, Teddy Twatwater and Marcus Mariota, being off the board when Cleveland drafts. Watkins, who currently has 71 receptions for 1,086 yards and nine touchdowns, is undeniably a talent. It appears Rang simply isn't sold on the top-rated QBs. That leads me to...
Second pick: Mettenberger: There it is. Mettenberger could be a steal at 27. He could also prove to be Weeden 2.0.
2014 Cleveland Browns NFL Mock Drafts (November 22 edition): Dane Brugler
First pick: Carr: Carr will be the future quarterback of the Browns if these mock drafts have anything to say about it. Only three of five people see Cleveland selecting a quarterback with the team's first overall pick. Every one of them is a fan of the Fresno State QB.
Second pick: WR Allen Robinson, Penn State: Talk about a rising stock. Robinson entered 2013 as a WR who could go on Sundays. Now, some are suggesting that he could be the greatest WR in PSU history. Robinson falling all the way down to 27 would be a blessing for the Browns.
A duo of Carr and Robinson wearing Brown and Orange for a decade at least? I'm sure Cleveland fans would take that.
For more: No HOF for Modell, Villains of the Browns, Haden a star
Zac has been following Cleveland sports since a little before his birth, and thus his heart breaks a little more with every year. He has been covering the Cleveland Browns, New York Giants and the NFL for Yahoo Sports since 2010.
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http://sprtshumor.lockerdome.com/media/110546017
As long as its not this guy....
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Good stuff. I kinda-sorta think dring Zack "Weeds" Mettenberger in a similar draft slot is just too crazy to happen. He's about as mobile and kind of reminds me of a slightly more accurate Derek Anderson. We'll see today against Manziel. It's a huge day for both guys, really.
I like the mobility of Carr, Manziel, and Hundley... and I think Chud does, too. He'd love to toss in some designed QB sweeps like SF and some RO like he ran with Newton.
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Really interesting exercise with fascinating result... made even more so by the apparent surprise it registered with you... well done.
It would seem that the old adage about the perils of drafting for need are in full display in your exercise. And it stands to reason that the peril is even greater around the most coveted QB position creating a panic factor, which we succumbed to twice in Messrs Weeden and Quinn. (And Quinn did not fall to us, we traded back up into the 1st to grab him.)
Going to take issue with your last point though. I think it is very hard to teach proper mechanics to a QB who has been doing it "his way" for 7 or 8 years at the HS and College level. Things get ingrained and even if the player manages to correct them in practice, they tend to come out under game pressure.
I rarely slice on the driving range any more, but every once in a while in a round that one-time constant companion drops in to say hello.
I was more referring to the fact that Brady took a free fall from being a sure fire top 5 pick to the late first, akin to Rodgers. We did screw the pooch moving up to take him, but I will admit I was enamored with him, just as others are with Hoyer. Something about being a "hometown"(ish) guy...
I think what makes a good NFL coach is the realization that players do have their own ways of doing things and adapting to that. There is no absolute perfect way to throw a football, every person does it slightly differently in varying situations and will have different hitches in their footwork and motion.
At the NFL level, I think it's more about minimizing the hitches that you can (patting the ball, dropping your shoulder, extended delivery, etc.) and utilizing the others (lower release point, misguided feet, etc.).
Matthew Stafford was highly touted as a prospect that oozed talent, but a big knock on him was that he tended to sidearm the ball a few times per game, especially when fatigued. Stafford has since utilized that sidearm throw when pressed and has made some absolutely incredible throws under duress in the NFL. Again, it's not preferable, but it can be a weapon if harnessed.
Fundamentally speaking, Hundley has a problem with his footwork and winds up on longer throws. His footwork isn't bad per se, he just takes a number of useless steps and sometimes doesn't set correctly. These are things that can be fixed, as they aren't motions that he constantly does not are they unique to his throwing style.
If he had a long delivery, a pitchers wind up (cough, cough) or a wandering elbow, that would be a little different. Those are fatal flaws that are very hard to overcome for a QB.
All in all, I think the best way to take a QB is to find a guy who fits your mold and has the least amount of "unfixables". He may not always be a first rounder. If you like a guy in the mid to late rounds, taking him and learning him up is never a bad move.
I'm actually becoming more and more impressed with Hundley's athleticism and attitude the more I research him. He reminds me of Manuel, a leader with a great personality and endless athletic talent.
As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
At the NFL level, I think it's more about minimizing the hitches that you can (patting the ball, dropping your shoulder, extended delivery, etc.) and utilizing the others (lower release point, misguided feet, etc.).
Agree
Fundamentally speaking, Hundley has a problem with his footwork and winds up on longer throws. His footwork isn't bad per se, he just takes a number of useless steps and sometimes doesn't set correctly. These are things that can be fixed, as they aren't motions that he constantly does not are they unique to his throwing style.His wind up bugs me. A QB that for no apparent reason is inconsistant in his mechanics actually bothers me more than one who is consistantly off.
If he had a long delivery, a pitchers wind up (cough, cough) or a wandering elbow, that would be a little different. Those are fatal flaws that are very hard to overcome for a QB.LOL... I think you meant to say (wheeze, wheeze). Wheezy is one of the worst I've seen...
All in all, I think the best way to take a QB is to find a guy who fits your mold and has the least amount of "unfixables". He may not always be a first rounder. If you like a guy in the mid to late rounds, taking him and learning him up is never a bad move.Agree... QBs with perfect mechanics are just rare. The closest to perfection seem to either have a coach (Elway) or QB (Mannings, Luck) for a father. But if the head is good, it can go a long way toward overcoming non-fatal flaws.
I'm actually becoming more and more impressed with Hundley's athleticism and attitude the more I research him. He reminds me of Manuel, a leader with a great personality and endless athletic talent.
What are your thoughts on either Hundley with our first pick or Bortles in the second (assuming he declares)?
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Good stuff. I kinda-sorta think dring Zack "Weeds" Mettenberger in a similar draft slot is just too crazy to happen. He's about as mobile and kind of reminds me of a slightly more accurate Derek Anderson. We'll see today against Manziel. It's a huge day for both guys, really.
I like the mobility of Carr, Manziel, and Hundley... and I think Chud does, too. He'd love to toss in some designed QB sweeps like SF and some RO like he ran with Newton.
We'll see today against Manziel. It's a huge day for both guys, really.
I like the mobility of Carr, Manziel, and Hundley... and I think Chud does, too. He'd love to toss in some designed QB sweeps like SF and some RO like he ran with Newton.
Really looking forward to the A&M/ LSU tilt today...
Not looking forward to any Browns' QB-sweeps... Can't you tell Chud to put that out of his mind?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We'll see today against Manziel. It's a huge day for both guys, really.
I like the mobility of Carr, Manziel, and Hundley... and I think Chud does, too. He'd love to toss in some designed QB sweeps like SF and some RO like he ran with Newton.
Really looking forward to the A&M/ LSU tilt today...
Not looking forward to any Browns' QB-sweeps... Can't you tell Chud to put that out of his mind?
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As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
At the NFL level, I think it's more about minimizing the hitches that you can (patting the ball, dropping your shoulder, extended delivery, etc.) and utilizing the others (lower release point, misguided feet, etc.).
Agree
Fundamentally speaking, Hundley has a problem with his footwork and winds up on longer throws. His footwork isn't bad per se, he just takes a number of useless steps and sometimes doesn't set correctly. These are things that can be fixed, as they aren't motions that he constantly does not are they unique to his throwing style.His wind up bugs me. A QB that for no apparent reason is inconsistant in his mechanics actually bothers me more than one who is consistantly off.
If he had a long delivery, a pitchers wind up (cough, cough) or a wandering elbow, that would be a little different. Those are fatal flaws that are very hard to overcome for a QB.LOL... I think you meant to say (wheeze, wheeze). Wheezy is one of the worst I've seen...
All in all, I think the best way to take a QB is to find a guy who fits your mold and has the least amount of "unfixables". He may not always be a first rounder. If you like a guy in the mid to late rounds, taking him and learning him up is never a bad move.Agree... QBs with perfect mechanics are just rare. The closest to perfection seem to either have a coach (Elway) or QB (Mannings, Luck) for a father. But if the head is good, it can go a long way toward overcoming non-fatal flaws.
I'm actually becoming more and more impressed with Hundley's athleticism and attitude the more I research him. He reminds me of Manuel, a leader with a great personality and endless athletic talent.
What are your thoughts on either Hundley with our first pick or Bortles in the second (assuming he declares)?
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
The thing I like most of Bortles is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
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The thing I like most of Bortles is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.As much as I do not like Mettenberg, the mock that has him on the back-end of a Watkins/ Mettenberg first round might be tolerable. But a Watkins/ Zack Martin 1st with a QB in round 2 or 3 would definitely float my boat.
DraftScout.com has Mettenberg sliding to the late 1st/ early 2nd now... and lookie lookie they have my boy on the rise into the late 2nd!
I've seen Hundley twice and have not yet been impressed. Certainly do not see him as "early/ mid 1st round worthy" at this point... but still watching.
I have seen a couple UCF games, but never focused on Bortles passing. Was put off by his running as I am with all running QBs. I'll make myself watch him more closely next time.
Caught a good bit of Fales vs Navy last night (42/56 440 yards 5 TD 1 INT). As Shep pointed out a while back, his arm strength is a question. Too bad because despite the INT in 3rd OT there was a lot to like. He has a quick release, very nice pocket awareness and made a few really pretty passes on the move. He's projected to be a 4-5th rounder by DraftScout.com and looks plenty worthy of that pick.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
The thing I like most of Hundley is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
When did UCLA become a mid-major?
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The thing I like most of Hundley is his general elusiveness. He's not the fastest or quickest by any means, but he is very good at maneuvering in and outside of the pocket.
He reminds me of Roethlisberger in college. He's a big guy at a mid-major school who has turned in great performances against ranked teams, and his play style is very much the same.
He can make all the throws. He's made them all season long. But his escapability and his ability to extend plays is what I really love.
When did UCLA become a mid-major?
When did UCLA become a mid-major?
I meant Bortles, not Hundley. My mistake.
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Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
#Justsayin' -
Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
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all this means nothing. Great QB's are made in the NFL, with good coaching.. College means about squat. Look at Tom Brady, he was a 6th round afterthought. Then there was Tim Couch, and Ryan Leaf,. There is no for sure fire way to tell if a college QB will do well in the NFL.
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, and Gino Torretta won the Heisman.
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all this means nothing. Great QB's are made in the NFL, with good coaching.. College means about squat. Look at Tom Brady, he was a 6th round afterthought. Then there was Tim Couch, and Ryan Leaf,. There is no for sure fire way to tell if a college QB will do well in the NFL.
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, and Gino Torretta won the Heisman.
But on the flip side, there's players like Andrew Luck and Cam Newton who succeed at both levels.all this means nothing. Great QB's are made in the NFL, with good coaching.. College means about squat. Look at Tom Brady, he was a 6th round afterthought. Then there was Tim Couch, and Ryan Leaf,. There is no for sure fire way to tell if a college QB will do well in the NFL.
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, and Gino Torretta won the Heisman.
You're absolutely correct. All it proves is that there's no one way to find a QB, but there's about a million ways to not find one.
All you can really do is look for the qualities you deem most important and find the guy who possesses the most of them.
After all, part of the success has to be attributed to the system. Tom Brady, Matt Ryan and Peyton Manning wouldn't be as successful in a system like San Fran's. Flacco wouldn't be as successful in Kansas City. Stafford wouldn't be as successful in Carolina.
There's about a 15 item checklist that I, personally, have...and I'm no scout. The items on that list are weighted and of this years crop, there's about three QB's I'd love to have. Not all of them are in the first round, either.
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so it comes down to the scout, who see's these attributes with his own eyes. They never get the credit though. I'm sure Bill Belicheck wasn't at meatchicken games, watching Tom Brady.
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
Derek Carr - 527 yds & 7 TDs... in 3 quarters today...
Can't wait to see him in a BCS Bowl game (hopefully), and the Senior Bowl to see what he can do against better competition. He is my #1 QB right now... and yes, I mean above ALL the other QBs...
Unfortunately for CLE, this monster push from him means that he will be drafted before CLE's pick. But I've been on Carr's case for a long time. He's a phenomenal passer that elevates his otherwise pitiful team.
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so it comes down to the scout, who see's these attributes with his own eyes. They never get the credit though. I'm sure Bill Belicheck wasn't at meatchicken games, watching Tom Brady.
so it comes down to the scout, who see's these attributes with his own eyes. They never get the credit though. I'm sure Bill Belicheck wasn't at meatchicken games, watching Tom Brady.
It doesn't come down to him, but he is involved. It's a thankless job.
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I just read that Aaron Murray tore his ACL. Somewhere else had him as a 3-5 round pick. I would be totally for drafting him in the 5th round, kind of do what Washington did last year with drafting two QBs.
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Well after watching Mettenberger, Manziel, Hundley and the late-coming Petty fairly closely yesterday, the one that arguably had the worst game impressed me the most... Manziel.
One of the issues I've had with Manziel is what I saw as his swashbuckling, do-or-die style. When he threw he just seemed to take too many chances for my taste... chances that he was getting away with at the collegiate level, but would not at the pro level. And all too often he chose to run too quickly. I did not see either tendency yesterday.
Yesterday I saw a patient QB who surveyed the field thoroughly and sometimes exhaustively. I can only recall one forced pass, and it was on a 4th and goal play when he was under a big rush. He still ran numerous times, but as a last resort. He still ran into more collisions than I want to see, but he did survive.
A&M ran into a LSU buzzsaw yesterday and while Manziel could not overcome that fact, he showed me something in defeat that he had not in victory.
On the other hand, the limited stock I held in A&M's WR, Evans, fell. I did not like him showing up his QB when he overthrew him once early... especially given that Evans dropped a slant earlier. That "attytood" just looks like trouble down the road. Also, clearly as the game went on, Evans was reading a different D than Johnny was. I am not sure Manziel's reads were right most, let alone, all of the time, but I'd bet a few shekels on him.
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