What's wrong with Derek Carr?
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
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Sorry if this was pointed out in another thread but I didn't see anything. Since the Browns are certainly going QB, I've begun watching some highlights and games of the top guys. The one QB that has come up better than anyone else to me is Derek Carr. He's tall, strong, and quick enough to do everything in the NFL. He throws a quick, accurate football and has that Big Ben-esque escapability factor. The only knock I've seen so far is that his brother didn't pan out in the NFL. How that is even a thing I don't know but that's what I've read.
Additionally, the guy has years of experience and is a fifth year senior. Is there something I'm missing about him that doesn't scream franchise QB?
Sorry if this was pointed out in another thread but I didn't see anything. Since the Browns are certainly going QB, I've begun watching some highlights and games of the top guys. The one QB that has come up better than anyone else to me is Derek Carr. He's tall, strong, and quick enough to do everything in the NFL. He throws a quick, accurate football and has that Big Ben-esque escapability factor. The only knock I've seen so far is that his brother didn't pan out in the NFL. How that is even a thing I don't know but that's what I've read.
Additionally, the guy has years of experience and is a fifth year senior. Is there something I'm missing about him that doesn't scream franchise QB?
His last name is Carr!
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
i can live with that. but there is a lot of factors that go into that reasoning.
first is carr the guy you really wanted now that the whole QB class has been turned upside down? was he your guy to begin with? do you say no to hoyer as a starter and have him serve as a backup considering the health of his knee? or is hoyer the starter, some bum as a backup and carr sit and learn?
or do you decide to go with position of ned (besides QB) with your first pick and choose either the best OL (RG/RT) or defensive monster, then choose a QB with our second first rounder? or just hold off all together with the QB pick until the later rounds and fix other positions of need?
who knows what this FO will do.
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?
Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)
This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky
I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!
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Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.
What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.
Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.
Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.
Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.
Shep this is where we differ- and I think I've been pretty clear about it- I'm not averse to a trade up, but not a RGIII sell the ranch trade up. We traded up for Quinn, remember? And that was merely at the price of next year's first rounder and a second. I sort of get ill when I look back at wht those picks could have been had we not screwed up.
What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?
Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)
This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky
I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!
Hoyer will have had months longer than RGIII to rehab the knee. Lewis had a fractured fibula- that's the small bone in your lower leg. Unless he totally shattered it- not that big a deal, should be totally healed by now. There was a report of ligament damage somewhere- and I have no idea what or where that was- possible he tore the high ligament, or several. Even so given a year's time to heal, I'd be surprised if he isn't ready to go come training camp.
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i just hope aslem puts down the iron beef jerkey.
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?
Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)
This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky
I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!
What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?
Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)
This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky
I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!
I thought the same thing, but then I found an article the other day that Hoyer's injury wasn't as bad as originally thought and that they projected him to be back and healthy in 5-6 months. That means he SHOULD be ready to go in March-April, giving him plenty of time to continue to strengthen his knee before offseason stuff.
EDIT: Here's the link to the article http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/18/4853256/brian-hoyer-injury-browns-timetable
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Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.
From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
Tour: What did Carr get?
Shep: He has not taken the test yet.
Tour: Exactly.....
Thought I'd save a little time...
Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.
From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.
Tour: What did Carr get?
Shep: He has not taken the test yet.
Tour: Exactly.....
Thought I'd save a little time...
I understand why NFL scouts use the wonderlic as a tool to help them evaluate the overall player.
But when fans (Shep) start using it as "see, he's smart, he'll be good" it's a bit silly.
2011: Blaine Gabbert 42 Cam Newton 21
Which one hasn't been able to handle the NFL?
These guys all scored under 30:
Matt Hasselbeck 1998 Boston College 29Troy Aikman 1989 UCLA 29John Elway 1983 Stanford 29Drew Brees 2001 Purdue 28Peyton Manning 1998 Tennessee 28Joe Flacco 2008 Delaware 27Jay Cutler 2006 Vanderbilt 26Carson Palmer 2003 USC 26Ben Roethlisberger 2004 Miami Ohio 25Chad Pennington 2000 Marshall 25Mark Brunel 1993 Washington 22Brett Favre 1991 Southern Miss 22Cam Newton 2011 Auburn 21Michael Vick 2001 Virginia Tech 20Daunte Culpepper 1999 Central Florida 18Vinny Testaverde 1987 Miami 17Steve Mcnair 1995 Alcorn State 15Randall Cunningham 1985 UNLV 15Jim Kelly 1983 Miami 15Dan Marino 1983 Pittsburgh 15Terry Bradshaw 1970 Louisiana tech 15Donovan Mcnabb 1999 Syracuse 14 -
Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.
What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.
Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.
Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.
Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.
What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.
Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.
Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.
Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.
Sanchez, bust.
Gabbert, bust.
Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.
Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.
Campbell, bust.
Manuel, we'll see.
RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.
Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.
I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.
Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.
Than I don't do it unless the extra pick is a 3rd rounder....but it won't be. There are going to be teams interested in this or that QB and you'll have half a dozen teams looking to land Clowney. Moving up to any top slot is going to command a permium.
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Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.
From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
Tour: What did Carr get?
Shep: He has not taken the test yet.
Tour: Exactly.....
Thought I'd save a little time...
Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.
From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.
I don't think it's possible to make worse throws than Weeden though fortunately haha. What exactly do you mean by gunslinger? I've heard that phrase used by so many people in so many ways it's lost all meaning to me. I usually think of the Brett Favre type of guy. Someone who is going to make stupid mistakes but moreso use his talents to make tough throws (If they're good).
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well as a detractor of moving up......there are two ways to go.
you pick best player available at every position neede except QB. are we really expecting afcn title next year even if hoyer is healthy? maybe. only if we fill those other positions of need.
now if you want to go franchise QB..let hoyer start next (praying that his knee is heeled and he learned how to slide) have weeds or campbell (or neither by signing a vet backup FA) and aim squarely at the 2015 when mariota and maybe even winston comes out?
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
The problem is to get Carr you likely have to take him in the top 5. Teams then seem to feel obligated to GIVE the job to the rookie instead of make him earn it. They try to justify taking them that high.
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With a rookie cap there's a lot less pressure to start a rookie in the opener. If Hoyer is healthy and plays as well as he did for us this season, the only way you sit him is if the rookie simply takes the job in camp and preseason by playing better. Basically, what Russell Wilson did to whatsisname in Seattle.
There's still a lot of shifting around to come. Still some risers and fallers. Only think I feel pretty certain of is that Brian Hoyer's existence (29, 3 starts, coming off injury) won't change the team's plans. And my sense is that a long-term, high-end answer at QB is job #1.
And again: I really like Hoyer. I wish he'd played all season.
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Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.
What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.
Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.
Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.
Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.
Sanchez, bust.
Gabbert, bust.
Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.
Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.
Campbell, bust.
Manuel, we'll see.
RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.
Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.
I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.
Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.
Sanchez, bust.
Gabbert, bust.
Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.
Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.
Campbell, bust.
Manuel, we'll see.
RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.
Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.
I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.
I agree completely on this. I am not sure its as much they are ballsier as it is they are more desperate.
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Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.
Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?
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Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.
Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?
Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.
Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?
None of them have ever played for Cleveland.
LOL I will bite what is your common thread?
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They are all better than hoyer.
Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.
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They are all better than hoyer.
Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.
They are all better than hoyer.
Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.
They should be, considering nearly all of them are first round picks.
Outside of Romo, none of them should even be in the same conversation as Hoyer, based on draft status.
That doesn't change the fact that Hoyer is the best QB on our roster and will be on our roster next season as well.
Nobody is saying "don't take a QB." What we're saying is there is nobody worth trading up for.
The general consensus is that this draft is devoid of any true frontrunner, excluding Bridgewater.
Why trade up for an unknown when an equally unknown quarterback will be there when we pick at 7?
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Ballsy pick would be to take Hundley at 7 even though you want him to sit for a year. Because in 2014 in the spanky new uniforms, you might have the equivalent of a #1 overall and one helluva roster around him.
But it feels like a coin flip whether he comes out. Mariota staying in and Mettenberger getting hurt makes him very popular, I'm betting... and he gets the grade he wants to hear.
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