What's wrong with Derek Carr?
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Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.
Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.
Than I don't do it unless the extra pick is a 3rd rounder....but it won't be. There are going to be teams interested in this or that QB and you'll have half a dozen teams looking to land Clowney. Moving up to any top slot is going to command a permium.
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Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.
From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
Tour: What did Carr get?
Shep: He has not taken the test yet.
Tour: Exactly.....
Thought I'd save a little time...
Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.
From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.
I don't think it's possible to make worse throws than Weeden though fortunately haha. What exactly do you mean by gunslinger? I've heard that phrase used by so many people in so many ways it's lost all meaning to me. I usually think of the Brett Favre type of guy. Someone who is going to make stupid mistakes but moreso use his talents to make tough throws (If they're good).
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well as a detractor of moving up......there are two ways to go.
you pick best player available at every position neede except QB. are we really expecting afcn title next year even if hoyer is healthy? maybe. only if we fill those other positions of need.
now if you want to go franchise QB..let hoyer start next (praying that his knee is heeled and he learned how to slide) have weeds or campbell (or neither by signing a vet backup FA) and aim squarely at the 2015 when mariota and maybe even winston comes out?
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
The problem is to get Carr you likely have to take him in the top 5. Teams then seem to feel obligated to GIVE the job to the rookie instead of make him earn it. They try to justify taking them that high.
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With a rookie cap there's a lot less pressure to start a rookie in the opener. If Hoyer is healthy and plays as well as he did for us this season, the only way you sit him is if the rookie simply takes the job in camp and preseason by playing better. Basically, what Russell Wilson did to whatsisname in Seattle.
There's still a lot of shifting around to come. Still some risers and fallers. Only think I feel pretty certain of is that Brian Hoyer's existence (29, 3 starts, coming off injury) won't change the team's plans. And my sense is that a long-term, high-end answer at QB is job #1.
And again: I really like Hoyer. I wish he'd played all season.
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Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.
What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.
Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.
If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.
Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.
Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.
Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.
Sanchez, bust.
Gabbert, bust.
Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.
Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.
Campbell, bust.
Manuel, we'll see.
RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.
Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.
I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.
Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.
Sanchez, bust.
Gabbert, bust.
Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.
Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.
Campbell, bust.
Manuel, we'll see.
RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.
Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.
I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.
I agree completely on this. I am not sure its as much they are ballsier as it is they are more desperate.
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Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.
Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?
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Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.
Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?
Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.
Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?
None of them have ever played for Cleveland.
LOL I will bite what is your common thread?
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They are all better than hoyer.
Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.
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They are all better than hoyer.
Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.
They are all better than hoyer.
Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.
They should be, considering nearly all of them are first round picks.
Outside of Romo, none of them should even be in the same conversation as Hoyer, based on draft status.
That doesn't change the fact that Hoyer is the best QB on our roster and will be on our roster next season as well.
Nobody is saying "don't take a QB." What we're saying is there is nobody worth trading up for.
The general consensus is that this draft is devoid of any true frontrunner, excluding Bridgewater.
Why trade up for an unknown when an equally unknown quarterback will be there when we pick at 7?
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Ballsy pick would be to take Hundley at 7 even though you want him to sit for a year. Because in 2014 in the spanky new uniforms, you might have the equivalent of a #1 overall and one helluva roster around him.
But it feels like a coin flip whether he comes out. Mariota staying in and Mettenberger getting hurt makes him very popular, I'm betting... and he gets the grade he wants to hear.
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The only thing wrong with Derek Carr is that he is David Carr's brother. Look at his game film and you will be impressed.
I hope the Browns draft this kid because the weapons and coaching are already in place. This kid will easily beat out Hoyer and start from Day 1 for the next 15 years.
Here is one scout's take:
Bridgewater
"Louisville quarterback Teddy Twatwater is a favorite of mine, ranked as my second-best quarterback prospect. That's not a sentiment shared by some NFL teams. One scout I spoke with this week complained about Bridgewater's "terrible body" and the team's weak schedule. The junior hasn't yet declared, but there are rumors his value around the league isn't quite on par with the media's love affair with him."
Carr
"I spoke with three area scouts this week who all like Derek Carr as a top-five pick. Possible destinations for him include Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Oakland, but keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns. Carr fits the profile that general manager Michael Lombardi and head coach Rob Chudzinski want in their quarterback."
Last 2 games:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/
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Ballsy pick would be to take Hundley at 7 even though you want him to sit for a year. Because in 2014 in the spanky new uniforms, you might have the equivalent of a #1 overall and one helluva roster around him.
But it feels like a coin flip whether he comes out. Mariota staying in and Mettenberger getting hurt makes him very popular, I'm betting... and he gets the grade he wants to hear.
Ballsy pick would be to take Hundley at 7 even though you want him to sit for a year. Because in 2014 in the spanky new uniforms, you might have the equivalent of a #1 overall and one helluva roster around him.
But it feels like a coin flip whether he comes out. Mariota staying in and Mettenberger getting hurt makes him very popular, I'm betting... and he gets the grade he wants to hear.
I think Mora re-signing will be enough to keep him in college for another year.
With Bortles moving up the board, Hundley's stock is seeing a slight decrease.
He could be the #1 overall next year, or the year after that.
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The only thing wrong with Derek Carr is that he is David Carr's brother. Look at his game film and you will be impressed.
I hope the Browns draft this kid because the weapons and coaching are already in place. This kid will easily beat out Hoyer and start from Day 1 for the next 15 years.
Here is one scout's take:
Bridgewater
"Louisville quarterback Teddy Twatwater is a favorite of mine, ranked as my second-best quarterback prospect. That's not a sentiment shared by some NFL teams. One scout I spoke with this week complained about Bridgewater's "terrible body" and the team's weak schedule. The junior hasn't yet declared, but there are rumors his value around the league isn't quite on par with the media's love affair with him."
Carr
"I spoke with three area scouts this week who all like Derek Carr as a top-five pick. Possible destinations for him include Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Oakland, but keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns. Carr fits the profile that general manager Michael Lombardi and head coach Rob Chudzinski want in their quarterback."
Last 2 games:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/
The only thing wrong with Derek Carr is that he is David Carr's brother. Look at his game film and you will be impressed.
I hope the Browns draft this kid because the weapons and coaching are already in place. This kid will easily beat out Hoyer and start from Day 1 for the next 15 years.
Here is one scout's take:
Bridgewater
"Louisville quarterback Teddy Twatwater is a favorite of mine, ranked as my second-best quarterback prospect. That's not a sentiment shared by some NFL teams. One scout I spoke with this week complained about Bridgewater's "terrible body" and the team's weak schedule. The junior hasn't yet declared, but there are rumors his value around the league isn't quite on par with the media's love affair with him."
Carr
"I spoke with three area scouts this week who all like Derek Carr as a top-five pick. Possible destinations for him include Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Oakland, but keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns. Carr fits the profile that general manager Michael Lombardi and head coach Rob Chudzinski want in their quarterback."
Last 2 games:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/
Disagree. There's more not to like, including the fact that his numbers spiked once Fresno State hired Dave Schramm as OC last season.
The offensive system run in Fresno State is a spread based, quick pass influenced, get your playmakers the ball in space style offense, hence the reason Carr's completion percentage jumped nearly 10% in one year.
They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically. Carr benefits from being asked to make high percentage throws. His highlight reels feature more plays from his receivers and running backs than they do NFL caliber throws.
He has the physical tools, but at this point he's more the product of an effective system than he is a superior quarterback.
His mechanics break down when facing pressure, he's run nearly three quarters of his plays from the gun, he telegraphs passes by the way he sets up in the gun, he drops the ball below shoulder level when pressured, and his drop back is inconsistent at best.
Once you look past the pretty throws, you see glimpses of his brother.
He reminds me of a poor mans Eli Manning. When he's good, he's good, but when he's under pressure he collapses.
http://factoryofsadness.sportsblog.com/posts/217258/201_nfl_draft_qb_scouting.html
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Sure his numbers spiked a little going from a Pro Style offense to a Spread quick hitting offense. But you don't think it has anything to do with going from his first year starting to his second and third year starting? He is way more athletic and has a higher Football IQ than his brother. I think you're just down on him because you hate his brother.
The kid is also a genius compared with other prospects.
http://www.fresnobee...carr-named.html
For those who say he can't play in a Pro Style Offense, here is a video of his first season playing in a Pro Style offense.
Carr’s ratio of 108 TD passes to 21 INTs is the best of any FBS QB with at least 100 TD passes.
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"They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically."
Do you actually watch his games or videos?
In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions
In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions
In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions
You have lost all credibility with your slanted, bias analysis and hatred for Derek Carr.
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what i've seen from all of these guys in big games (including bridgewater tonite) would have me picking the best defensive player on the board or the best wr on the oard or the best..........like i said before carr looked great against who?? louisville over cincy, really? the great karmac coulda picked that.
these guys are all smoke and mirrors.
i'll betcha 3 years down the road someone's 3rd round pick of QB will still be playing and at a higher rate than any of these guys in the first round of 2014 draft.
let me know if you got a six pack in ya.
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I was at the UC vs Louisville game last night and, as a whole, I wasn't really impressed with Bridgewater until the 4th quarter. Cincy was pretty much playing a cover 2 all night and I'd say 85% of Bridgewater's throws were on 7-10 yard curls. Because of that, his stats were pretty skewed and on anything other than those curls, he wasn't really completing anything.
However, I was really impressed with his elusiveness in the pocket. There were times, especially in the 4th, when we all thought for sure he was sacked where he threw 2 or 3 guys off him and made a play. I'm still in shock at the TD to Copeland when everyone thought he was just throwing it away and it ended up being a perfect strike to the corner of the end zone while he side armed it basically falling down. Then the 4th and 12 conversion where he shook off two guys and ran for the 1st.
All in all, I don't know if he's worth a top 5 pick, but he certainly knows how to kick it in late in games and lead his team to a win. The Browns could use someone with his abilities, but I wouldn't trade up for him, especially not to number 1 overall.
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I was at the UC vs Louisville game last night and, as a whole, I wasn't really impressed with Bridgewater until the 4th quarter. Cincy was pretty much playing a cover 2 all night and I'd say 85% of Bridgewater's throws were on 7-10 yard curls. Because of that, his stats were pretty skewed and on anything other than those curls, he wasn't really completing anything.
However, I was really impressed with his elusiveness in the pocket. There were times, especially in the 4th, when we all thought for sure he was sacked where he threw 2 or 3 guys off him and made a play. I'm still in shock at the TD to Copeland when everyone thought he was just throwing it away and it ended up being a perfect strike to the corner of the end zone while he side armed it basically falling down. Then the 4th and 12 conversion where he shook off two guys and ran for the 1st.
All in all, I don't know if he's worth a top 5 pick, but he certainly knows how to kick it in late in games and lead his team to a win. The Browns could use someone with his abilities, but I wouldn't trade up for him, especially not to number 1 overall.
I was at the UC vs Louisville game last night and, as a whole, I wasn't really impressed with Bridgewater until the 4th quarter. Cincy was pretty much playing a cover 2 all night and I'd say 85% of Bridgewater's throws were on 7-10 yard curls. Because of that, his stats were pretty skewed and on anything other than those curls, he wasn't really completing anything.
However, I was really impressed with his elusiveness in the pocket. There were times, especially in the 4th, when we all thought for sure he was sacked where he threw 2 or 3 guys off him and made a play. I'm still in shock at the TD to Copeland when everyone thought he was just throwing it away and it ended up being a perfect strike to the corner of the end zone while he side armed it basically falling down. Then the 4th and 12 conversion where he shook off two guys and ran for the 1st.
All in all, I don't know if he's worth a top 5 pick, but he certainly knows how to kick it in late in games and lead his team to a win. The Browns could use someone with his abilities, but I wouldn't trade up for him, especially not to number 1 overall.
He will be no lower than a Top 3 pick simply because he is perceived as the best QB in the draft.
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"They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically."
Do you actually watch his games or videos?
In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions
In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions
In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions
You have lost all credibility with your slanted, bias analysis and hatred for Derek Carr.
Yes, I do. Quoting stat blurbs from other "scouts" and watching Carr's YouTube highlight video's doesn't make you an expert."They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically."
Do you actually watch his games or videos?
In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions
In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions
In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions
You have lost all credibility with your slanted, bias analysis and hatred for Derek Carr.
First, let's address the fact that your aforementioned statistic doesn't begin to include the whole story. Half of those 20+ yard completions were short passes, mainly screens.
Fresno State runs a quick screen offense in place of their running game. Half of Derek Carr's passes don't travel more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. They are the very definition of a YAC offense.
Against Nevada, Fresno State ran 10+ screens/ quick hitches in the first half alone..
One scout broke down three games from Carr this season and calculated a whopping 34% of his attempts were passes completed behind the line of scrimmage. That's an average of one pass every set of downs. 77% of Carr's passes this season have been 10 yards or less downfield, compared to 62% from both Teddy Twatwater and Tajh Boyd
In the same sample size, one scout found that Carr's adjusted completion percentage of 10+ yard passes is only 53% (factoring in drops and throw-aways). Compare that to Boyd's 62% and Mettenberger's 70% in a sample of the same size.
Here's a visual breakdown of passes thrown in games from Carr's junior season.
http://draftfalcons.com/breaking-down-college-footballs-top-quarterbacks-fresno-states-derek-carr/
This isn't bias of Derek Carr. On the contrary, I like Derek Carr. I think he has a great story. But I don't believe he's a first round prospect.
I'm not one to just mindlessly believe the hype without doing my own research. And in that research, I compare prospects to the college careers of successful NFL QB's. I don't blow my load over yards and touchdowns like everyone else. There's hundreds of unemployed former college phenoms with thousands of yards and hundreds of touchdowns. That doesn't equal NFL success, however.
The best numbers to go by are his sophomore seasons numbers, which are good, don't get me wrong. That, in my opinion, is the best representation of Carr as an NFL QB. Nothing spectacular, similar to Bridgewater's, Bortles' and Hundley's, yet against much weaker competition.
Personally, I really couldn't care less what you think of my opinion. The statistical analysis is enough to make anyone wary of Carr as an NFL prospect.
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