We should be rooting for Atlanta to have the worst record. Jax, Hou, and Min to lose. w
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Turnarounds happen because of QBs. That's what the homework shows. Peyton to Denver, Brees to New Orleans, Luck to Indy, Favre to Minnesota, Big Ben to Pittsburgh, Flacco to Ravens (remember when they were an Every Other Year Team?), Stafford to Lions, Wilson to Seattle, Smith to KC, Newton to Panthers, etc.
No team sucked, kept playing the same QB, added a couple guards, and got real good. Just not the way it works.
No shortcuts, guys. You have to get a great quarterback or you aren't relevant.
You mean Andy Dalton is "great"? Hardly. I'm not ready to put Alex Smith in the HOF just yet either. It brings me to my real point.
Let's say we suck out and draft no worse than 5th. I'll let you be the GM. (I know what I'd do)
1) Do you trade both #1s and Gordon to move up to #1 and take Bridgewater?
2) Sit @ #5 and take Carr?
3) Hope Hundley falls to your second first rounder and draft Clowney?
You mean Andy Dalton is "great"? Hardly. I'm not ready to put Alex Smith in the HOF just yet either. It brings me to my real point.
Let's say we suck out and draft no worse than 5th. I'll let you be the GM. (I know what I'd do)
1) Do you trade both #1s and Gordon to move up to #1 and take Bridgewater?
2) Sit @ #5 and take Carr?
3) Hope Hundley falls to your second first rounder and draft Clowney?
1) Would it really require two #1's and Gordon to move up and take Bridgewater? I don't think it will. I'll play GM here. I trade both #1 picks and one of the third-round picks if it means I can take Bridgewater. If the team in the #1 slot asks for more than that I say no thanks (unless the more they ask for is a token pick). I would not give up Josh Gordon for anything.
2) This is determined by whether or not the trade above occurs. If the trade doesn't happen, I take Carr here.
3) Hundley is no longer an option.
I really think the Browns are one player away from relevancy, and that player is QB. Look at every team at the top of their division. They have played the same QB for the entire year, regardless of how elite the QB is. Look at every team at the bottom of their division. All but two have started multiple QBs throughout the season. QB is the most important position in all of team sports.
After QB, the Browns need to drive WR, OL, RB in that order, depending also on what they manage to do in free agency.
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trading away Gordon for a shot at a quarterback is a little bit like the Gift of the Magi.
Also passing up a quarterback this year and waiting for Mariota to come out is a little risky. Why? For the mere fact that if we are able to get the number one pick next year then it's been another stinkball of a season and if you know how Cleveland Browns football works the entire coaching staff and half the team will be gone.
If in fact everyone is completely enamored with the second rated prospect in a weak quarterback draft this year....
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Either give the house to move up for Bridgewater or take the next best QB with their first pick. Those are the only two reasonable moves.
We all know QB is the most important position. Miles ahead of the next most important. Heck, I'd rank the position importance as this...
1. QB
.
.
.
.
2-12. The 11 defensive starters
Take a look at Indy, Pitt, Car, GB, etc. They are all average to below average at almost every offensive position EXCEPT QB. Denver loses a LT and C and don't miss a beat.
The Browns problem is they haven't drafted enough QBs over the last 15 years. If they drafted more QBs then odds are they would have a good one and thus, not suck.
This whole take a guy to sit behind Hoyer is idiotic talk.
Try this exercise.
1. Rate the teams in the NFL right now.
2. Rate the teams in the NFL right now minus the QB (pretend the starting QB is replaced by a total scrub).
2 reallllly different lists.
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Either give the house to move up for Bridgewater or take the next best QB with their first pick. Those are the only two reasonable moves.
We all know QB is the most important position. Miles ahead of the next most important. Heck, I'd rank the position importance as this...
1. QB
.
.
.
.
2-12. The 11 defensive starters
Take a look at Indy, Pitt, Car, GB, etc. They are all average to below average at almost every offensive position EXCEPT QB. Denver loses a LT and C and don't miss a beat.
The Browns problem is they haven't drafted enough QBs over the last 15 years. If they drafted more QBs then odds are they would have a good one and thus, not suck.
This whole take a guy to sit behind Hoyer is idiotic talk.
Try this exercise.
1. Rate the teams in the NFL right now.
2. Rate the teams in the NFL right now minus the QB (pretend the starting QB is replaced by a total scrub).
2 reallllly different lists.
Either give the house to move up for Bridgewater or take the next best QB with their first pick. Those are the only two reasonable moves.
We all know QB is the most important position. Miles ahead of the next most important. Heck, I'd rank the position importance as this...
1. QB
.
.
.
.
2-12. The 11 defensive starters
Take a look at Indy, Pitt, Car, GB, etc. They are all average to below average at almost every offensive position EXCEPT QB. Denver loses a LT and C and don't miss a beat.
The Browns problem is they haven't drafted enough QBs over the last 15 years. If they drafted more QBs then odds are they would have a good one and thus, not suck.
This whole take a guy to sit behind Hoyer is idiotic talk.
Try this exercise.
1. Rate the teams in the NFL right now.
2. Rate the teams in the NFL right now minus the QB (pretend the starting QB is replaced by a total scrub).
2 reallllly different lists.
We look forward to your analysis after you have completed the exercise you suggest.
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@mike-h said:
The Lions have been decent with Stafford. I'd actually argue he kinda disproves your point shep. QB is important, but even if you have a good one, if you can't build the rest of the roster you're in purgatory still.
I think I do agree though, that the Browns need to do their homework, and do whatever it takes to draft the QB they want. Another year of watching Weeden, Delhonne, Quinn, Wallace, McCoy, DA and all these other bums, and ill blow my brains out.
PS-my choice in that exercise is sit @ #5 and take Carr.
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Either give the house to move up for Bridgewater or take the next best QB with their first pick. Those are the only two reasonable moves.
We all know QB is the most important position. Miles ahead of the next most important. Heck, I'd rank the position importance as this...
1. QB
.
.
.
.
2-12. The 11 defensive starters
Take a look at Indy, Pitt, Car, GB, etc. They are all average to below average at almost every offensive position EXCEPT QB. Denver loses a LT and C and don't miss a beat.
The Browns problem is they haven't drafted enough QBs over the last 15 years. If they drafted more QBs then odds are they would have a good one and thus, not suck.
This whole take a guy to sit behind Hoyer is idiotic talk.
Try this exercise.
1. Rate the teams in the NFL right now.
2. Rate the teams in the NFL right now minus the QB (pretend the starting QB is replaced by a total scrub).
2 reallllly different lists.
We look forward to your analysis after you have completed the exercise you suggest.
We look forward to your analysis after you have completed the exercise you suggest.
I apologize if it wasn't clear that I was being somewhat facetious. But since you asked...
Seattle 113.29 7.89 117.24 109.35 2 Carolina 111.61 1.09 112.16 111.07 3 Denver 111.31 0.87 111.75 110.88 4 San Francisco 109.55 5.32 112.21 106.89 5 New Orleans 107.56 2.96 109.04 106.08 6 Kansas City 105.75 1.44 106.47 105.03 7 New England 104.71 0.58 105.00 104.42 8 Arizona 104.29 4.68 106.63 101.95 9 Cincinnati 103.74 2.07 104.78 102.71 10 St. Louis 102.39 3.34 104.06 100.72 11 Indianapolis 102.17 3.29 103.82 100.53 12 Dallas 102.09 1.47 102.83 101.36 13 Detroit 101.02 3.04 102.54 99.50 14 Philadelphia 100.59 1.51 101.34 99.83 15 Miami 100.46 0.85 100.88 100.03 16 San Diego 99.61 1.27 100.24 98.97 17 Tennessee 99.47 2.29 100.61 98.32 18 Baltimore 98.69 3.95 100.66 96.71 19 Chicago 97.83 3.37 99.51 96.14 20 Tampa Bay 97.47 2.26 98.60 96.34 21 Green Bay 97.44 3.97 99.42 95.45 22 Buffalo 96.53 3.33 98.20 94.87 23 Pittsburgh 96.32 3.04 97.84 94.80 24 Atlanta 96.20 3.01 97.71 94.70 25 N.Y. Giants 95.72 2.15 96.80 94.65 26 Houston 94.01 3.89 95.96 92.07 27 Oakland 93.67 -1.31 93.02 94.33 28 Minnesota 93.26 4.52 95.52 91.00 29 Cleveland 93.10 2.02 94.11 92.09 30 Washington 92.47 0.54 92.74 92.20 31 N.Y. Jets 90.12 0.88 90.56 89.68 32 JacksonvilleI took those from vegas insider. Not a bad list to use.
Put a lousy QB on each team and would get something like this
1. Cincinnati
2. Seattle
3. Arizona
4. San Fran
5. Houston
6. Carolina
7. Buffalo
8. Jets
9. Cleveland
10. KC
11. TB
12. Lions
13. St Louis
14. Minny
15. Tenn
16. Miami
17. Giants
18. Saints
19. Bears
20. Denver
21. New England
22. Baltimore
23. Oakland
24. Dallas
25. Philly
26. Pitt
27. Skins
28. GB
29. indy
30. Atl
31. SD
32. Jax
The second is hard to do. Basically, rank by Defense. Because who gives a crap if you have some nice WRs if you have a donkey throwing to them
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We look forward to your analysis after you have completed the exercise you suggest.
I apologize if it wasn't clear that I was being somewhat facetious. But since you asked...
Seattle 113.29 7.89 117.24 109.35 2 Carolina 111.61 1.09 112.16 111.07 3 Denver 111.31 0.87 111.75 110.88 4 San Francisco 109.55 5.32 112.21 106.89 5 New Orleans 107.56 2.96 109.04 106.08 6 Kansas City 105.75 1.44 106.47 105.03 7 New England 104.71 0.58 105.00 104.42 8 Arizona 104.29 4.68 106.63 101.95 9 Cincinnati 103.74 2.07 104.78 102.71 10 St. Louis 102.39 3.34 104.06 100.72 11 Indianapolis 102.17 3.29 103.82 100.53 12 Dallas 102.09 1.47 102.83 101.36 13 Detroit 101.02 3.04 102.54 99.50 14 Philadelphia 100.59 1.51 101.34 99.83 15 Miami 100.46 0.85 100.88 100.03 16 San Diego 99.61 1.27 100.24 98.97 17 Tennessee 99.47 2.29 100.61 98.32 18 Baltimore 98.69 3.95 100.66 96.71 19 Chicago 97.83 3.37 99.51 96.14 20 Tampa Bay 97.47 2.26 98.60 96.34 21 Green Bay 97.44 3.97 99.42 95.45 22 Buffalo 96.53 3.33 98.20 94.87 23 Pittsburgh 96.32 3.04 97.84 94.80 24 Atlanta 96.20 3.01 97.71 94.70 25 N.Y. Giants 95.72 2.15 96.80 94.65 26 Houston 94.01 3.89 95.96 92.07 27 Oakland 93.67 -1.31 93.02 94.33 28 Minnesota 93.26 4.52 95.52 91.00 29 Cleveland 93.10 2.02 94.11 92.09 30 Washington 92.47 0.54 92.74 92.20 31 N.Y. Jets 90.12 0.88 90.56 89.68 32 JacksonvilleI took those from vegas insider. Not a bad list to use.
Put a lousy QB on each team and would get something like this
1. Cincinnati
2. Seattle
3. Arizona
4. San Fran
5. Houston
6. Carolina
7. Buffalo
8. Jets
9. Cleveland
10. KC
11. TB
12. Lions
13. St Louis
14. Minny
15. Tenn
16. Miami
17. Giants
18. Saints
19. Bears
20. Denver
21. New England
22. Baltimore
23. Oakland
24. Dallas
25. Philly
26. Pitt
27. Skins
28. GB
29. indy
30. Atl
31. SD
32. Jax
The second is hard to do. Basically, rank by Defense. Because who gives a crap if you have some nice WRs if you have a donkey throwing to them
I apologize if it wasn't clear that I was being somewhat facetious. But since you asked...
Seattle 113.29 7.89 117.24 109.35 2 Carolina 111.61 1.09 112.16 111.07 3 Denver 111.31 0.87 111.75 110.88 4 San Francisco 109.55 5.32 112.21 106.89 5 New Orleans 107.56 2.96 109.04 106.08 6 Kansas City 105.75 1.44 106.47 105.03 7 New England 104.71 0.58 105.00 104.42 8 Arizona 104.29 4.68 106.63 101.95 9 Cincinnati 103.74 2.07 104.78 102.71 10 St. Louis 102.39 3.34 104.06 100.72 11 Indianapolis 102.17 3.29 103.82 100.53 12 Dallas 102.09 1.47 102.83 101.36 13 Detroit 101.02 3.04 102.54 99.50 14 Philadelphia 100.59 1.51 101.34 99.83 15 Miami 100.46 0.85 100.88 100.03 16 San Diego 99.61 1.27 100.24 98.97 17 Tennessee 99.47 2.29 100.61 98.32 18 Baltimore 98.69 3.95 100.66 96.71 19 Chicago 97.83 3.37 99.51 96.14 20 Tampa Bay 97.47 2.26 98.60 96.34 21 Green Bay 97.44 3.97 99.42 95.45 22 Buffalo 96.53 3.33 98.20 94.87 23 Pittsburgh 96.32 3.04 97.84 94.80 24 Atlanta 96.20 3.01 97.71 94.70 25 N.Y. Giants 95.72 2.15 96.80 94.65 26 Houston 94.01 3.89 95.96 92.07 27 Oakland 93.67 -1.31 93.02 94.33 28 Minnesota 93.26 4.52 95.52 91.00 29 Cleveland 93.10 2.02 94.11 92.09 30 Washington 92.47 0.54 92.74 92.20 31 N.Y. Jets 90.12 0.88 90.56 89.68 32 JacksonvilleI took those from vegas insider. Not a bad list to use.
Put a lousy QB on each team and would get something like this
1. Cincinnati
2. Seattle
3. Arizona
4. San Fran
5. Houston
6. Carolina
7. Buffalo
8. Jets
9. Cleveland
10. KC
11. TB
12. Lions
13. St Louis
14. Minny
15. Tenn
16. Miami
17. Giants
18. Saints
19. Bears
20. Denver
21. New England
22. Baltimore
23. Oakland
24. Dallas
25. Philly
26. Pitt
27. Skins
28. GB
29. indy
30. Atl
31. SD
32. Jax
The second is hard to do. Basically, rank by Defense. Because who gives a crap if you have some nice WRs if you have a donkey throwing to them
This looks like it could be quite interesting to me....if I could understand it. Example, you give this for the Browns:
Cleveland 93.10 2.02 94.11 92.09 30
What do these numbers mean?
Then you reorder the teams. Is that some kind of power rating....assuming that each team had like the same QB playing for them..or what?
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trading away Gordon for a shot at a quarterback is a little bit like the Gift of the Magi.
Also passing up a quarterback this year and waiting for Mariota to come out is a little risky. Why? For the mere fact that if we are able to get the number one pick next year then it's been another stinkball of a season and if you know how Cleveland Browns football works the entire coaching staff and half the team will be gone.
If in fact everyone is completely enamored with the second rated prospect in a weak quarterback draft this year....
WSS
trading away Gordon for a shot at a quarterback is a little bit like the Gift of the Magi.
Two words...
- Warfield
- Phipps
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
While still thinking we'll go 8-8, I need one of you draftniks to tell me who to root for tonight .... Hou or Jax? Both need QBs and are ahead of us in draft order.
Maybe Houston sticks with Case Keenum if they can't get Bilgewater though?
Z
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There's a difference between trading up because you're scared someone's gonna take your guy, and going up and grabbing the best quarterback the draft has to offer.
There's a difference between trading up because you're scared someone's gonna take your guy, and going up and grabbing the best quarterback the draft has to offer.
When the best is only marginally better than the rest, why waste the draft picks to move up?
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Take Bortles at #5.
Take BPA as it aligns with need at #24.
Take A.J. Johnson in the second.
Take BPA with the first third round pick.
Take Michael Dyer with the second third round pick.
BPA the rest.
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While still thinking we'll go 8-8, I need one of you draftniks to tell me who to root for tonight .... Hou or Jax? Both need QBs and are ahead of us in draft order.
Maybe Houston sticks with Case Keenum if they can't get Bilgewater though?
Z
Zombo said:
While still thinking we'll go 8-8, I need one of you draftniks to tell me who to root for tonight .... Hou or Jax? Both need QBs and are ahead of us in draft order.
Maybe Houston sticks with Case Keenum if they can't get Bilgewater though?
Z
That is a moot point, as I caught the end of the game. WTF happened to the Texans? Did Schaub suddenly forget how to play football, or is there something else there I missed?
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he pased his 'downs symptons' to his son.
bastardo.
thing is with schaub is he'd be a better backup next year or a starter for us this year.
sad. sad. sad.
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Remember when he was the savior of the month?
WSS
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While still thinking we'll go 8-8, I need one of you draftniks to tell me who to root for tonight .... Hou or Jax? Both need QBs and are ahead of us in draft order.
Maybe Houston sticks with Case Keenum if they can't get Bilgewater though?
Z
Zombo said:
While still thinking we'll go 8-8, I need one of you draftniks to tell me who to root for tonight .... Hou or Jax? Both need QBs and are ahead of us in draft order.
Maybe Houston sticks with Case Keenum if they can't get Bilgewater though?
Z
With Jacksonville's win last night they now have 4 wins, which probably puts them lower than the Browns now on the draft order.....assuming of course the Browns don't beat the Pats.
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Methinks HOU axes Keenum, who's lost to JAC twice, for Bridgewater.
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