Our D is an embarrassment
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. I would go so far as to say that even with Shurmur still coaching this year we could have taken advantage of that divisional letoff. But no...instead we are in year 1 of yet another rebuild as the rest of the North also goes into at least semi rebuild. We could be stepping on teams throats this year if we had even a modicum of stability at the FO and Coaching staff positions. So please just stop being Cleveland Browns fans, you're ruining it for the rest of us that understand this is gonna take awhile and wouldn't be calling for Chuds job even if we were gonna go 1-15.
I agree on a lot of what you wrote until right there....Pat Shurmer was the worst coach I've seen in my 43 years of following the Browns.
I am willing to give Chud some time, but hoping he learns from some of his decisions. It's Banner & Lombardi I'm more worried about.
It's truly hard to believe in this era of parity we can't get out of the 4-12/5-11 cycle.
I agree on a lot of what you wrote until right there....Pat Shurmer was the worst coach I've seen in my 43 years of following the Browns.
I am willing to give Chud some time, but hoping he learns from some of his decisions. It's Banner & Lombardi I'm more worried about.
It's truly hard to believe in this era of parity we can't get out of the 4-12/5-11 cycle.
Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.
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Every single one of you blaming the defense is missing the point here. Of defenses ranked 24th or worse, SIX of the 9 teams are fighting for/have a playoff spot right now (San Diego, New England, Green Bay, Chicago, Philly, Dallas). I won't say the Browns don't need a piece or two on that side of the ball, sure they do. But the reason the Browns have sucked going on basically 15 years is not having a franchise QB. So many of you bitch and moan about the wrong things here. There's a reason the Chiefs went from worst to playoffs, same with the Colts last year. A true franchise QB changes the whole culture of a football team. That guy is truly the general leading the troops. Defenses play harder for him. Offenses gel and score points. It's that simple, without a franchise QB the browns will always be a 4-12 to 6-10 team. A lot of you like to say if only so and so had an offensive line, WR's yada yada. Tom brady has been basically throwing to scrubs all year and they're closing in on a bye.
Bottom line: IF the browns get a franchise guy, I guarantee we're staring at the playoffs next year. If we don't, it'll be another losing season.
That guy is truly the general leading the troops. Defenses play harder for him. Offenses gel and score points. It's that simple, without a franchise QB the browns will always be a 4-12 to 6-10 team. A lot of you like to say if only so and so had an offensive line, WR's yada yada. Tom brady has been basically throwing to scrubs all year and they're closing in on a bye.
Bottom line: IF the browns get a franchise guy, I guarantee we're staring at the playoffs next year. If we don't, it'll be another losing season.
Yeah- let's just get super lucky, and pull another Brady out of our ass in the sixth round, or "Suck For Luck"- too bad we didn't suck quite bad enough this year, and no "Luck" in the 2014 draft by all accounts. We've had 21 or so swings at a franchise guy since 1999- that equals seven strike outs in a row. Just get the stud qb, and whoopee!!!! Playoffs here we come!!! Hate to tell ya- ain't that simple. Just tell that to Matt Ryan- or even better Matt Stafford- damn, best WR in the game, decent RB in Bush, a studly defense- and the Lions are sitting @ home watching the SB on TV, just like the Browns- hard to believe, LOL. R$$$GIII? Hehe. Rivers, Rothlisberger, Flacco- two of them (at least, maybe all three) will be sitting at home. Eli ain't coming this year either.
I don't disagree with this...But we as fans expect to see at least some improvement through the course of the season or at least 1 aspect of our team to play at an NFL level...Most here thought it would be the defense...We drafted D...Brought in a big name coordinator...and played decent part of the year...But they didn't improve, they didn't get better, they got worse.
Thus all the bitching...and this thread.
The defense has totally collapsed at the end of the half, and in the fourth quarter of late- I can't blame the offense for that.
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I agree on a lot of what you wrote until right there....Pat Shurmer was the worst coach I've seen in my 43 years of following the Browns.
I am willing to give Chud some time, but hoping he learns from some of his decisions. It's Banner & Lombardi I'm more worried about.
It's truly hard to believe in this era of parity we can't get out of the 4-12/5-11 cycle.
Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.
you do realize that Shurmur was an offensive coach and our offense was the worst I've ever seen. I think you actually liked Jauron.Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.
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I agree on a lot of what you wrote until right there....Pat Shurmer was the worst coach I've seen in my 43 years of following the Browns.
I am willing to give Chud some time, but hoping he learns from some of his decisions. It's Banner & Lombardi I'm more worried about.
It's truly hard to believe in this era of parity we can't get out of the 4-12/5-11 cycle.
Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.
Pat Shurmur was better than Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel and maybe Chris Palmer even though I don't think he got a fair shake. People forget the Jamir Miller days when we had a very good defense comparable to this one....and Palmer was responsible for building it. In any case, I don't beleive Shurmur was our worst coach. Maybe because I to this day can't stand look at Butch Davis's face...I dunno.
You're freaking high on something. Butch Davis took us to the playoffs. Romeo Crennel sucked, but no worse then Shurmer. Chris Palmer was a sacrifical lamb.
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butch davis was the best coach we've had since '99 behind mangini.
davis's fault was building his defense up (defensive minded coach) and not protecting the QB with good OL.
mangini had a great but psychotic defense but an offense, besides running hillis behind vickers, sucked badly. he also had too much loyalty to players that he had coached for from other teams and brought them in when they were at the end of their rope.
i'd still put his team on the field against what i've seen since. they played hard and physical for the guy. too bad holmgren (the walrus) couldn't stand the parcells and belichik tree off coaching and had to get rid of him just to replace him with a guy he owed a favor to.
chris palmer had no chance from the start given only so much as a 'new' franchise come draft time. those whiffs he made in the draft remind me of travis hafner with 2 on and 2 out in the ninth.
i could feel the breeze here in NY.
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butch davis was the best coach we've had since '99 behind mangini.
davis's fault was building his defense up (defensive minded coach) and not protecting the QB with good OL.
mangini had a great but psychotic defense but an offense, besides running hillis behind vickers, sucked badly. he also had too much loyalty to players that he had coached for from other teams and brought them in when they were at the end of their rope.
i'd still put his team on the field against what i've seen since. they played hard and physical for the guy. too bad holmgren (the walrus) couldn't stand the parcells and belichik tree off coaching and had to get rid of him just to replace him with a guy he owed a favor to.
chris palmer had no chance from the start given only so much as a 'new' franchise come draft time. those whiffs he made in the draft remind me of travis hafner with 2 on and 2 out in the ninth.
i could feel the breeze here in NY.
butch davis was the best coach we've had since '99 behind mangini.
davis's fault was building his defense up (defensive minded coach) and not protecting the QB with good OL.
mangini had a great but psychotic defense but an offense, besides running hillis behind vickers, sucked badly. he also had too much loyalty to players that he had coached for from other teams and brought them in when they were at the end of their rope.
i'd still put his team on the field against what i've seen since. they played hard and physical for the guy. too bad holmgren (the walrus) couldn't stand the parcells and belichik tree off coaching and had to get rid of him just to replace him with a guy he owed a favor to.
chris palmer had no chance from the start given only so much as a 'new' franchise come draft time. those whiffs he made in the draft remind me of travis hafner with 2 on and 2 out in the ninth.
i could feel the breeze here in NY.
Mangini had an aging defense of crippled has beens...puhleeze..Mangini stunk and his morale was awful...Mangini was like Rac'n'Rolls...El Stupido!
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hey what do i know. i wasn't a towel boy put under the wings of a HOF coach and taught the game as a prodigy. mangini knows football like we know black hairy hookers.
merry xmas nicks!
-tim.
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That guy is truly the general leading the troops. Defenses play harder for him. Offenses gel and score points. It's that simple, without a franchise QB the browns will always be a 4-12 to 6-10 team. A lot of you like to say if only so and so had an offensive line, WR's yada yada. Tom brady has been basically throwing to scrubs all year and they're closing in on a bye.
Bottom line: IF the browns get a franchise guy, I guarantee we're staring at the playoffs next year. If we don't, it'll be another losing season.
Yeah- let's just get super lucky, and pull another Brady out of our ass in the sixth round, or "Suck For Luck"- too bad we didn't suck quite bad enough this year, and no "Luck" in the 2014 draft by all accounts. We've had 21 or so swings at a franchise guy since 1999- that equals seven strike outs in a row. Just get the stud qb, and whoopee!!!! Playoffs here we come!!! Hate to tell ya- ain't that simple. Just tell that to Matt Ryan- or even better Matt Stafford- damn, best WR in the game, decent RB in Bush, a studly defense- and the Lions are sitting @ home watching the SB on TV, just like the Browns- hard to believe, LOL. R$$$GIII? Hehe. Rivers, Rothlisberger, Flacco- two of them (at least, maybe all three) will be sitting at home. Eli ain't coming this year either.
I don't disagree with this...But we as fans expect to see at least some improvement through the course of the season or at least 1 aspect of our team to play at an NFL level...Most here thought it would be the defense...We drafted D...Brought in a big name coordinator...and played decent part of the year...But they didn't improve, they didn't get better, they got worse.
Thus all the bitching...and this thread.
The defense has totally collapsed at the end of the half, and in the fourth quarter of late- I can't blame the offense for that.
Yeah- let's just get super lucky, and pull another Brady out of our ass in the sixth round, or "Suck For Luck"- too bad we didn't suck quite bad enough this year, and no "Luck" in the 2014 draft by all accounts. We've had 21 or so swings at a franchise guy since 1999- that equals seven strike outs in a row. Just get the stud qb, and whoopee!!!! Playoffs here we come!!! Hate to tell ya- ain't that simple. Just tell that to Matt Ryan- or even better Matt Stafford- damn, best WR in the game, decent RB in Bush, a studly defense- and the Lions are sitting @ home watching the SB on TV, just like the Browns- hard to believe, LOL. R$$$GIII? Hehe. Rivers, Rothlisberger, Flacco- two of them (at least, maybe all three) will be sitting at home. Eli ain't coming this year either.
You didn't really read what I said. I'm not saying you can have a team of scrubs out there, but without a QB you could have the 85 bears defense and it just wouldn't matter. Of the QB's you listed, 4 could be .500 this year. I get it, that's not gonna win the super bowl but that's at least giving a team a chance for the playoffs. The point I'm making here is the browns have to keep going to the well and try and draft a franchise guy. It doesn't matter how many times we've swung and miss, hell look at the Dolphins. They missed about as much as the browns and the second they seem to have gotten it right they easily could make the playoffs. I'm sorry, but to me it is that simple. Draft a true franchise and I'd bet the nicest 12 pack of beer you can think of they start putting in more consistent 8-8 or better seasons. At this point, if the browns had two non-losing seasons I could die a happy man.
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Yeah- let's just get super lucky, and pull another Brady out of our ass in the sixth round, or "Suck For Luck"- too bad we didn't suck quite bad enough this year, and no "Luck" in the 2014 draft by all accounts. We've had 21 or so swings at a franchise guy since 1999- that equals seven strike outs in a row. Just get the stud qb, and whoopee!!!! Playoffs here we come!!! Hate to tell ya- ain't that simple. Just tell that to Matt Ryan- or even better Matt Stafford- damn, best WR in the game, decent RB in Bush, a studly defense- and the Lions are sitting @ home watching the SB on TV, just like the Browns- hard to believe, LOL. R$$$GIII? Hehe. Rivers, Rothlisberger, Flacco- two of them (at least, maybe all three) will be sitting at home. Eli ain't coming this year either.
You didn't really read what I said. I'm not saying you can have a team of scrubs out there, but without a QB you could have the 85 bears defense and it just wouldn't matter. Of the QB's you listed, 4 could be .500 this year. I get it, that's not gonna win the super bowl but that's at least giving a team a chance for the playoffs. The point I'm making here is the browns have to keep going to the well and try and draft a franchise guy. It doesn't matter how many times we've swung and miss, hell look at the Dolphins. They missed about as much as the browns and the second they seem to have gotten it right they easily could make the playoffs. I'm sorry, but to me it is that simple. Draft a true franchise and I'd bet the nicest 12 pack of beer you can think of they start putting in more consistent 8-8 or better seasons. At this point, if the browns had two non-losing seasons I could die a happy man.
You didn't really read what I said. I'm not saying you can have a team of scrubs out there, but without a QB you could have the 85 bears defense and it just wouldn't matter. Of the QB's you listed, 4 could be .500 this year. I get it, that's not gonna win the super bowl but that's at least giving a team a chance for the playoffs. The point I'm making here is the browns have to keep going to the well and try and draft a franchise guy. It doesn't matter how many times we've swung and miss, hell look at the Dolphins. They missed about as much as the browns and the second they seem to have gotten it right they easily could make the playoffs. I'm sorry, but to me it is that simple. Draft a true franchise and I'd bet the nicest 12 pack of beer you can think of they start putting in more consistent 8-8 or better seasons. At this point, if the browns had two non-losing seasons I could die a happy man.
What I'm saying- even with a franchise qb- there are no guarantees you're even going to be a .500 team. BTW, the '85 Bears had Jim McMahon at qb, hardly a stud. The Redskins won with Doug Williams, and the Ravens with Trent Dilfer. .The Chiefs are winning this year with retread Alex Smith.
Do I think having at least an above average qb isn't important? Hell no. The way the rules are today, you can't repeat the '85 Bears, or '00 Ravens and win with just defense.
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You didn't really read what I said. I'm not saying you can have a team of scrubs out there, but without a QB you could have the 85 bears defense and it just wouldn't matter. Of the QB's you listed, 4 could be .500 this year. I get it, that's not gonna win the super bowl but that's at least giving a team a chance for the playoffs. The point I'm making here is the browns have to keep going to the well and try and draft a franchise guy. It doesn't matter how many times we've swung and miss, hell look at the Dolphins. They missed about as much as the browns and the second they seem to have gotten it right they easily could make the playoffs. I'm sorry, but to me it is that simple. Draft a true franchise and I'd bet the nicest 12 pack of beer you can think of they start putting in more consistent 8-8 or better seasons. At this point, if the browns had two non-losing seasons I could die a happy man.
What I'm saying- even with a franchise qb- there are no guarantees you're even going to be a .500 team. BTW, the '85 Bears had Jim McMahon at qb, hardly a stud. The Redskins won with Doug Williams, and the Ravens with Trent Dilfer. .The Chiefs are winning this year with retread Alex Smith.
Do I think having at least an above average qb isn't important? Hell no. The way the rules are today, you can't repeat the '85 Bears, or '00 Ravens and win with just defense.
What I'm saying- even with a franchise qb- there are no guarantees you're even going to be a .500 team. BTW, the '85 Bears had Jim McMahon at qb, hardly a stud. The Redskins won with Doug Williams, and the Ravens with Trent Dilfer. .The Chiefs are winning this year with retread Alex Smith.
Do I think having at least an above average qb isn't important? Hell no. The way the rules are today, you can't repeat the '85 Bears, or '00 Ravens and win with just defense.
yes we have to find our franchise QB but as you've stated you can't just win anything in this league with one side of the ball your team plays great and the other sucks.
it's all about balance, just like life.
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