So now what?
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Orange85 said:
So how many QBs and Head Coaches do the Browns need to go through before you understand that it takes a lot more than a QB to win. Look at some of the Browns past QBs college careers. They didn't win all of those games by luck. I know Weeden is hated here and he has not played well overall, but he beat Folles, RG3 (multiple times), and Luck in college and had great games doing it. Did he become a horrible QB overnight? Hardly. This entire organization is in shambles. Not just the QB situation….it is really that simple.
Actually he did... it was the night he went from a college QB to an NFL QB... Tons of guys are good in college, but don't have the game that translates to the NFL. Comparing college success to NFL success is apples to oranges... don't be stupid...
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I have a feeling we can say goodbye to Alex Mack, and possibly TJ Ward b/c of this decision. We can franchise Ward, but Mack won't want to stay unless we bring in somebody impressive to take over the offense... If we lose Mack, that's a major blow to our o-line...
Interesting offseason ahead...
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they also haven't had a good headcoach
I don't think we know that. The best I've felt about the Browns since 99, the most optimistic i'd been.....was in '10 when they went to NO and NE and put a beating on two of the elite teams in the NFL. It was Mangini's 2nd year right? He had a bad 1st year, than went 5-11 but put the Browns on the national discussion. The Sports world was talking about the Browns again. We had a backfield that looked like it was going to steam iron the North for years to come. But we had a shitty qb and Mangini was mean to him.....FIRED!!!! And say what you will about Shurmur but most of these guys here today are his guys...and some of ain't bad. Obviously I think Mangini had us closer to something than Shurm did...but my point is that how do we fucking know we havne't had a good coach? They're all gone after 2 years.
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they also haven't had a good headcoach
I don't think we know that. The best I've felt about the Browns since 99, the most optimistic i'd been.....was in '10 when they went to NO and NE and put a beating on two of the elite teams in the NFL. It was Mangini's 2nd year right? He had a bad 1st year, than went 5-11 but put the Browns on the national discussion. The Sports world was talking about the Browns again. We had a backfield that looked like it was going to steam iron the North for years to come. But we had a shitty qb and Mangini was mean to him.....FIRED!!!! And say what you will about Shurmur but most of these guys here today are his guys...and some of ain't bad. Obviously I think Mangini had us closer to something than Shurm did...but my point is that how do we fucking know we havne't had a good coach? They're all gone after 2 years.
I don't think we know that. The best I've felt about the Browns since 99, the most optimistic i'd been.....was in '10 when they went to NO and NE and put a beating on two of the elite teams in the NFL. It was Mangini's 2nd year right? He had a bad 1st year, than went 5-11 but put the Browns on the national discussion. The Sports world was talking about the Browns again. We had a backfield that looked like it was going to steam iron the North for years to come. But we had a shitty qb and Mangini was mean to him.....FIRED!!!! And say what you will about Shurmur but most of these guys here today are his guys...and some of ain't bad. Obviously I think Mangini had us closer to something than Shurm did...but my point is that how do we fucking know we havne't had a good coach? They're all gone after 2 years.
with the exception of Belicheck where are all of the previously fired Browns head coaches? I believe I know if they were good or not.
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I don't think we know that. The best I've felt about the Browns since 99, the most optimistic i'd been.....was in '10 when they went to NO and NE and put a beating on two of the elite teams in the NFL. It was Mangini's 2nd year right? He had a bad 1st year, than went 5-11 but put the Browns on the national discussion. The Sports world was talking about the Browns again. We had a backfield that looked like it was going to steam iron the North for years to come. But we had a shitty qb and Mangini was mean to him.....FIRED!!!! And say what you will about Shurmur but most of these guys here today are his guys...and some of ain't bad. Obviously I think Mangini had us closer to something than Shurm did...but my point is that how do we fucking know we havne't had a good coach? They're all gone after 2 years.
with the exception of Belicheck where are all of the previously fired Browns head coaches? I believe I know if they were good or not.
with the exception of Belicheck where are all of the previously fired Browns head coaches? I believe I know if they were good or not.
Well Shurmur is now the offensive coordinator for the philly eagles, did you know that? Romeo went to the Chiefs and is credited with alot of the guys that are currently on that roster who are making this run of theirs possible. Mangini has turned down offers, he's waiting for his spot. Honestly I'd love for them to bring him back because he'd at least keep the defensive scheme in place. So no you don't know what they would have done with 4-5 years in Cleveland. IMO if Mangini was still here we'd have the drivers seat in the North. I base that on the fact the North has had a significant downturn and that Lawrence Vickers and Peyton Hillis would still be rolling downhill. Just because neither of those guys did much after they left here doesn't mean they weren't in a good spot and wouldn't have continued to produce at a high level.
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with the exception of Belicheck where are all of the previously fired Browns head coaches? I believe I know if they were good or not.
Well Shurmur is now the offensive coordinator for the philly eagles, did you know that? Romeo went to the Chiefs and is credited with alot of the guys that are currently on that roster who are making this run of theirs possible. Mangini has turned down offers, he's waiting for his spot. Honestly I'd love for them to bring him back because he'd at least keep the defensive scheme in place. So no you don't know what they would have done with 4-5 years in Cleveland. IMO if Mangini was still here we'd have the drivers seat in the North. I base that on the fact the North has had a significant downturn and that Lawrence Vickers and Peyton Hillis would still be rolling downhill. Just because neither of those guys did much after they left here doesn't mean they weren't in a good spot and wouldn't have continued to produce at a high level.
Well Shurmur is now the offensive coordinator for the philly eagles, did you know that? Romeo went to the Chiefs and is credited with alot of the guys that are currently on that roster who are making this run of theirs possible. Mangini has turned down offers, he's waiting for his spot. Honestly I'd love for them to bring him back because he'd at least keep the defensive scheme in place. So no you don't know what they would have done with 4-5 years in Cleveland. IMO if Mangini was still here we'd have the drivers seat in the North. I base that on the fact the North has had a significant downturn and that Lawrence Vickers and Peyton Hillis would still be rolling downhill. Just because neither of those guys did much after they left here doesn't mean they weren't in a good spot and wouldn't have continued to produce at a high level.
none are or ever will be head coaches again so whats your point?
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Shurmur might be with the Eagles, but let's not kid ourselves about who runs the offense. You can credit Romeo with the Chief success this year if you want, but the Chiefs didn't seem to think he was working, and it looks to me like he did a terrible job with a fairly talented team. I didn't think that Mangini got a fair shake in Cleveland, but I don't know if I'd say I want him back.
What I DON'T want is another coach who wants to dismantle everything and start from scratch again because what's here isn't his personal preference. Unless you're some established gameplan/scheme revolutionary with proven success, I don't want to hear about YOUR system. Come in, look at what's in place here and IMPROVE on that. Don't tear it all down all over again and waste YET ANOTHER year so that you can have things the way you want them. If you accept the job, accept that we're asking you to improve THIS team, not to waste years starting over from scratch AGAIN.
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Shurmur might be with the Eagles, but let's not kid ourselves about who runs the offense. You can credit Romeo with the Chief success this year if you want, but the Chiefs didn't seem to think he was working, and it looks to me like he did a terrible job with a fairly talented team. I didn't think that Mangini got a fair shake in Cleveland, but I don't know if I'd say I want him back.
What I DON'T want is another coach who wants to dismantle everything and start from scratch again because what's here isn't his personal preference. Unless you're some established gameplan/scheme revolutionary with proven success, I don't want to hear about YOUR system. Come in, look at what's in place here and IMPROVE on that. Don't tear it all down all over again and waste YET ANOTHER year so that you can have things the way you want them. If you accept the job, accept that we're asking you to improve THIS team, not to waste years starting over from scratch AGAIN.
Come in, look at what's in place here and IMPROVE on that. Don't tear it all down all over again and waste YET ANOTHER year so that you can have things the way you want them. If you accept the job, accept that we're asking you to improve THIS team, not to waste years starting over from scratch AGAIN.
aaaannnnddd the only guy you're gonna get to come in here and agree to that is someone with limited to no experience who's just grateful to have an NFL slot. Fantastic. No established coach is gonna say yeah i'll come in and gurantee a 10 win season with guys he didn't pick or have a hand in picking. It ain't gonna happen. Every coach knows this. Even FA's have to be interviewed by the coach and he has to sign off on whether this guy fits his scheme mentally and physically. It just takes time and coaches have to build their team. What you want just isn't going to happen...it never happens. It hasn't happened in the past. Heck Mangini revamped Romeo's team and they came from the same Belichick stable. Than Shurm turned over that team than Chuds came in and "reworked" Shurms's team, not completely revamped....and we see how well that worked.
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Every coaching change involves a rebuild to some extent. Every single one.
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Really? Seems like Andy Reid did an okay job of it. I'm not saying that the Browns are the Chiefs, and I don't expect an immediate turn around to that extent, but some improvement instead of "different-looking failure" would be nice.
And wasn't Chud some guy with limited to no experience? What exactly did he do before he got to Cleveland? Surely you're not crediting him with anything in Carolina. He didn't give birth to Cam Newton, and I'm pretty sure that team is better this year without Chud. And regardless of that, how is what I'm asking worse than what has actually happened over and over again. Clearly the "let's get some low-cost guy to come in here and change everything again" option has not worked yet. So why don't we try bringing someone in and saying, "Look, you can eventually turn this team into your style of team, but it's got to be a forward-moving transition. You can't come in and throw up your hands and insist that we scrap everything while we wait for years for you to get the kind of players you like. Start with what's here, improve on it, and head it eventually in your own direction if you like."?
And I'm not saying that a new coach/staff shouldn't involve any rebuilding. I'm saying that there's a difference between coming in and improving a team in your own way and coming in and saying "we're not doing anything that worked for us before; I like things to be completely different and we're not doing anything until we can do that."
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wow i didn't think i'd ever agree with something coming out of cleveland4life's mouth or seeing on my monitor.
mangini had the discipline that NFL players nowadays need, he hired a good staff. he made his players earn their jobs.
chud was a dud from day one.
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Mangini was just the right coach at the wrong time.
Banner as pres Heckert as GM and Mangini as coach would be a winner too bad we can't pick & choose.
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Mamgini sucked and stockpiled the team with old,aging vets that simply couldnt play anymore..Mangini blows dawg nutz.
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Did Chud sign a five year contract when he hired in? If yes, Do we have to pay him the remaining four years on his contract? If yes. He is laughing all the way to the bank.
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Did Chud sign a five year contract when he hired in? If yes, Do we have to pay him the remaining four years on his contract? If yes. He is laughing all the way to the bank.
Did Chud sign a five year contract when he hired in? If yes, Do we have to pay him the remaining four years on his contract? If yes. He is laughing all the way to the bank.
4 year contract, apparently he has three years left, I read somewhere. And yes, we'll be paying him, probably in truck fuel.
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So now what?......Let's see.
On offense we actually looked good for awhile when Hoyer was qb. So any argument about not needed a qb goes right out the window. Campbell was we thought he would be, a good backup. We have no running game (and wouldn't even with Richardson). We do have a couple of weapons at reciever and tight end, but that is about it on offense. I know there are alot of Mack supporters on here but he is not that great. Joe Thomas got a year older and a step slower.
On defense we were great the first half of the season and then went in the tank. Joe Hayden? Love the guy, but he got worked a few times and cost us a couple games. Our free agents did not produce as they were expected. Mingo will get better but needs more help. Injuries...yep along with every other team in the league.
So now we need a new coach. He was the problem? For what Norv had to work with, I thought he did a good job. Horton? Nope. We went backwards on defense. I'm not a Chud fan (or hater) but who knows if he was really the problem. Our draft picks have sucked for a long time and if they don't get it right this year, we will suck for another 7 years. Maybe they already have their coach and we just don't know it yet? But let's face it...how much worse can the next one be?
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Has a press conference been called for today ?
If so what time ?
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