Trading up ...
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We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
We don't have room for 10 rookies on our 53-man roster, IF you want to see any improvement next year. We should only draft 7 guys, and really should only be counting on at most 2 of them to be in the starting lineup... We can't just draft 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds and hope to add 3-5 new starters to our lineup... that would be dumb drafting... Any time you add rookies, you add growing pains, so expecting 1 or 2 to start is enough...
We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable.
I disagree. They could possibly use all of them. You know the Browns need starters at: QB/RB/WR/OG/MLBs plus they can certainly use depth at TE?DB and any number of other places......and what if they lose Mack or Ward or both to FA....then there are those holes to fill.
We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
We don't have room for 10 rookies on our 53-man roster, IF you want to see any improvement next year. We should only draft 7 guys, and really should only be counting on at most 2 of them to be in the starting lineup... We can't just draft 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds and hope to add 3-5 new starters to our lineup... that would be dumb drafting... Any time you add rookies, you add growing pains, so expecting 1 or 2 to start is enough...
They could use 10 rookies...look at our roster now. Lombardi has been playing musical chairs with those last 10 slots. If those could be solidified and stabilized, our special teams would be a lot better. And also, at least 2-3 of those rookie could be put on the PS. No, I see lots of places where additional talent should be added. If bringing in 10 rookies then pushes the backups we have on this team to do better, then I am all for it.
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We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
We don't have room for 10 rookies on our 53-man roster, IF you want to see any improvement next year. We should only draft 7 guys, and really should only be counting on at most 2 of them to be in the starting lineup... We can't just draft 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds and hope to add 3-5 new starters to our lineup... that would be dumb drafting... Any time you add rookies, you add growing pains, so expecting 1 or 2 to start is enough...
We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
We don't have room for 10 rookies on our 53-man roster, IF you want to see any improvement next year. We should only draft 7 guys, and really should only be counting on at most 2 of them to be in the starting lineup... We can't just draft 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds and hope to add 3-5 new starters to our lineup... that would be dumb drafting... Any time you add rookies, you add growing pains, so expecting 1 or 2 to start is enough...
I'm with Gip on this one.If we lose Ward or Mack, we're going to have to use one of those high picks on a replacement. Right now we at least need (qb of the future) OG (maybe two) RB, ILB, CB, safety depth, upgrade at #2 TE, I've already used up 7 picks without even trying. More if we lose some FAs.
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Well the rookies taken in rounds 4 through 7 will likely not be starting material. Round 3 toss up...
But there's no reason we couldn't have 4 or 5 starters from the draft.
WSS
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If you put 2-3 players you draft on the PS, they can be signed to other teams without compensation... thus wasted draft picks if they're any good
Also, if you get 4-5 starters from the same draft, then you're starting 4-5 rookies which means "waiting until next year" while these guys develop and get beat... especially late in the year when they hit the inevitable "rookie wall"
If we have 7 holes to fill in the starting lineup, which I don't think we do, we need to utilize the players we have been developing, FA, and the draft to fill them... not just the draft... unless you want to wait another 3 years to see if those 10 guys turn out to be any good... Youth is good, but the 2nd youngest team in the NFL adding 10 rookies... just doesn't make sense...
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If you put 2-3 players you draft on the PS, they can be signed to other teams without compensation... thus wasted draft picks if they're any good
Also, if you get 4-5 starters from the same draft, then you're starting 4-5 rookies which means "waiting until next year" while these guys develop and get beat... especially late in the year when they hit the inevitable "rookie wall"
If we have 7 holes to fill in the starting lineup, which I don't think we do, we need to utilize the players we have been developing, FA, and the draft to fill them... not just the draft... unless you want to wait another 3 years to see if those 10 guys turn out to be any good... Youth is good, but the 2nd youngest team in the NFL adding 10 rookies... just doesn't make sense...
If you put 2-3 players you draft on the PS, they can be signed to other teams without compensation... thus wasted draft picks if they're any good
Also, if you get 4-5 starters from the same draft, then you're starting 4-5 rookies which means "waiting until next year" while these guys develop and get beat... especially late in the year when they hit the inevitable "rookie wall"
If we have 7 holes to fill in the starting lineup, which I don't think we do, we need to utilize the players we have been developing, FA, and the draft to fill them... not just the draft... unless you want to wait another 3 years to see if those 10 guys turn out to be any good... Youth is good, but the 2nd youngest team in the NFL adding 10 rookies... just doesn't make sense...
Yes, some holes would/should/could be fill with veterans via FA.....But I mean WTF.....if this team is going to be relying on a rookie starting QB next year....then hell yes, we again will all be waiting till the following year.
That is what the QB fuckups do to this team. Couch/Quinn/Frye/McCoy/Weeden....yea, it takes two years to figure out if these guys will be any good......and none of them were and this team has suffered setbacks of two years each time.
Where the hell do you think we will be if we go down the rookie road again?
Unless Hoyer becomes the real deal, that is where we are headed....again.
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1st round this year 1st round next year, I think the FO puts a lot of value in to the depth of this class and would be shocked to see them trade out of a whole lot this year.
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If you put 2-3 players you draft on the PS, they can be signed to other teams without compensation... thus wasted draft picks if they're any good
Also, if you get 4-5 starters from the same draft, then you're starting 4-5 rookies which means "waiting until next year" while these guys develop and get beat... especially late in the year when they hit the inevitable "rookie wall"
If we have 7 holes to fill in the starting lineup, which I don't think we do, we need to utilize the players we have been developing, FA, and the draft to fill them... not just the draft... unless you want to wait another 3 years to see if those 10 guys turn out to be any good... Youth is good, but the 2nd youngest team in the NFL adding 10 rookies... just doesn't make sense...
Yes, some holes would/should/could be fill with veterans via FA.....But I mean WTF.....if this team is going to be relying on a rookie starting QB next year....then hell yes, we again will all be waiting till the following year.
That is what the QB fuckups do to this team. Couch/Quinn/Frye/McCoy/Weeden....yea, it takes two years to figure out if these guys will be any good......and none of them were and this team has suffered setbacks of two years each time.
Where the hell do you think we will be if we go down the rookie road again?
Unless Hoyer becomes the real deal, that is where we are headed....again.
Yes, some holes would/should/could be fill with veterans via FA.....But I mean WTF.....if this team is going to be relying on a rookie starting QB next year....then hell yes, we again will all be waiting till the following year.
That is what the QB fuckups do to this team. Couch/Quinn/Frye/McCoy/Weeden....yea, it takes two years to figure out if these guys will be any good......and none of them were and this team has suffered setbacks of two years each time.
Where the hell do you think we will be if we go down the rookie road again?
Unless Hoyer becomes the real deal, that is where we are headed....again.
Or we go where 3 rookie QBs took their teams last year... the playoffs
#Justsayin' -
I don't believe we need to move up, but if a QB needy team like Minnesota moves up/threatens to move up to #2 then we might need to consider a trade if we want one of the 3 "bluechip" qb's
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I don't believe we need to move up, but if a QB needy team like Minnesota moves up/threatens to move up to #2 then we might need to consider a trade if we want one of the 3 "bluechip" qb's
I don't believe we need to move up, but if a QB needy team like Minnesota moves up/threatens to move up to #2 then we might need to consider a trade if we want one of the 3 "bluechip" qb's
Yeah- just like we got suckered that someone might jump ahead of us to take Richardson.
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We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
We don't have room for 10 rookies on our 53-man roster, IF you want to see any improvement next year. We should only draft 7 guys, and really should only be counting on at most 2 of them to be in the starting lineup... We can't just draft 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds and hope to add 3-5 new starters to our lineup... that would be dumb drafting... Any time you add rookies, you add growing pains, so expecting 1 or 2 to start is enough...
We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
illogical.
we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks.
we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft.
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We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
illogical.
we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks.
we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft.
no. No way. We wouldnt be able to keep em all and would end up cutting 3 or 4 once training camp rolls around. Dont forget we will add a few free agents as well. I'd say no more than 7 rookies are on the final roster after cuts....and that'll be an NFL high. I'd like to see them package some picks for some proven talent.illogical.
we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks.
we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft.
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Yes, some holes would/should/could be fill with veterans via FA.....But I mean WTF.....if this team is going to be relying on a rookie starting QB next year....then hell yes, we again will all be waiting till the following year.
That is what the QB fuckups do to this team. Couch/Quinn/Frye/McCoy/Weeden....yea, it takes two years to figure out if these guys will be any good......and none of them were and this team has suffered setbacks of two years each time.
Where the hell do you think we will be if we go down the rookie road again?
Unless Hoyer becomes the real deal, that is where we are headed....again.
Or we go where 3 rookie QBs took their teams last year... the playoffs
Or we go where 3 rookie QBs took their teams last year... the playoffs
Yea....in today's NFL I don't see why that is impossible.
Here is a question: When has a team with a first year coach and a rookie QB ever made the playoffs? I don't know the answer...I would have to think on it or research it. Curious though.
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@mike-h said:
You guys, man.... how many times has any team drafted solely for need and then inserted all of their rookies into their starting lineups the following season?
It doesn't happen. 10 picks is a luxury--and those picks were compiled for a reason: to get the Browns' franchise QB. Whether or not that requires a trade up from the No. 4 pick, or another pick to a higher selection, the probability of some type of trade on draft day is huge.
OK....but that would be great IF there were a QB rated like Luck or RGIII there to trade up to get. In this draft, there ain't. Bridgewater seems the best rated....but he is by no means the consensus best QB out there. Bortles/Manziel/Carr all get their run as well. Getting the guy considered the best in this draft is no sure thing that he will be better than the guy taken #100,
.
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@mike-h said:
You guys, man.... how many times has any team drafted solely for need and then inserted all of their rookies into their starting lineups the following season?
It doesn't happen. 10 picks is a luxury--and those picks were compiled for a reason: to get the Browns' franchise QB. Whether or not that requires a trade up from the No. 4 pick, or another pick to a higher selection, the probability of some type of trade on draft day is huge.
OK....but that would be great IF there were a QB rated like Luck or RGIII there to trade up to get. In this draft, there ain't. Bridgewater seems the best rated....but he is by no means the consensus best QB out there. Bortles/Manziel/Carr all get their run as well. Getting the guy considered the best in this draft is no sure thing that he will be better than the guy taken #100,
.
OK....but that would be great IF there were a QB rated like Luck or RGIII there to trade up to get. In this draft, there ain't. Bridgewater seems the best rated....but he is by no means the consensus best QB out there. Bortles/Manziel/Carr all get their run as well. Getting the guy considered the best in this draft is no sure thing that he will be better than the guy taken #100,
.
I'm not an "expert" by any means, but I tend to disagree with the argument that there is no "surefire franchise QB" in this draft. Usually, scouts can decide the top player at a given position based on "comparing" them to others at the same spot. This year, I think all 4 QBs (Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr/Bortles) are so different in their style-of-play that it is hard to make a comparitive argument for who is the best. If any of these guys were in the draft last year vs. Smith/Manuel, all 4 would be compared favorably over either of those guys. In my opinion, these guys are all good enough to be drafted 1-4 and just like every draft in history 2 out of those 4 are going to lead their teams to success... To achieve that success, your FO has one of two options - 1) draft the guy that best fits what you are trying to do on offense, or 2) draft the most talented guy and fit your offense to them... Look at the NFC - 3 of the final 4 teams took option #2 (of course those teams have pretty solid coaching staffs - but that is for another argument)... It's hard to predict success, but it's worth it to gamble on that QB b/c I'd hate to go into another season and know by week 4 that there is no hope b/c "we don't have a quarterback"...
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Or we go where 3 rookie QBs took their teams last year... the playoffs
Yea....in today's NFL I don't see why that is impossible.
Here is a question: When has a team with a first year coach and a rookie QB ever made the playoffs? I don't know the answer...I would have to think on it or research it. Curious though.
Yea....in today's NFL I don't see why that is impossible.
Here is a question: When has a team with a first year coach and a rookie QB ever made the playoffs? I don't know the answer...I would have to think on it or research it. Curious though.
There's a few examples off the top of my head:
2012 - Colts (Pagano/Arians and Luck)
2008 - Falcons (Mike Smith and Matt Ryan)
2008 - Ravens (John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco)
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We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind...
1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater
2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans)
3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year)
4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent
illogical.
we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks.
we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft.
illogical.
we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks.
we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft.
They don't have to be starters- just add quality depth. And we can do what we did last year trade some of those lower picks for higher picks in 2015.
@mike-h said:
You guys, man.... how many times has any team drafted solely for need and then inserted all of their rookies into their starting lineups the following season?
It doesn't happen. 10 picks is a luxury--and those picks were compiled for a reason: to get the Browns' franchise QB. Whether or not that requires a trade up from the No. 4 pick, or another pick to a higher selection, the probability of some type of trade on draft day is huge.
Question is- is there a true franchise sure-fire guy in this draft? There's no Andrew Luck. Trade the 2nd first for someone's first AND second in 2015 when we have a shot at Mariotta. I doubt Haslam's going to have the patience though- he's in a "win now" mode. Well you can't win with inferior talent. I thought you were in it for sustainable success Jimmy, or did I hear you wrong?
I'm not an "expert" by any means, but I tend to disagree with the argument that there is no "surefire franchise QB" in this draft. Usually, scouts can decide the top player at a given position based on "comparing" them to others at the same spot. This year, I think all 4 QBs (Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr/Bortles) are so different in their style-of-play that it is hard to make a comparitive argument for who is the best. If any of these guys were in the draft last year vs. Smith/Manuel, all 4 would be compared favorably over either of those guys. In my opinion, these guys are all good enough to be drafted 1-4 and just like every draft in history 2 out of those 4 are going to lead their teams to success... To achieve that success, your FO has one of two options - 1) draft the guy that best fits what you are trying to do on offense, or 2) draft the most talented guy and fit your offense to them... Look at the NFC - 3 of the final 4 teams took option #2 (of course those teams have pretty solid coaching staffs - but that is for another argument)... It's hard to predict success, but it's worth it to gamble on that QB b/c I'd hate to go into another season and know by week 4 that there is no hope b/c "we don't have a quarterback"...
History says one of the 4 will be great, one will be average, one below average, and one a total bust. Step right up any play draft day roulette.
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illogical.
we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks.
we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft.
They don't have to be starters- just add quality depth. And we can do what we did last year trade some of those lower picks for higher picks in 2015.
@mike-h said:
You guys, man.... how many times has any team drafted solely for need and then inserted all of their rookies into their starting lineups the following season?
It doesn't happen. 10 picks is a luxury--and those picks were compiled for a reason: to get the Browns' franchise QB. Whether or not that requires a trade up from the No. 4 pick, or another pick to a higher selection, the probability of some type of trade on draft day is huge.
Question is- is there a true franchise sure-fire guy in this draft? There's no Andrew Luck. Trade the 2nd first for someone's first AND second in 2015 when we have a shot at Mariotta. I doubt Haslam's going to have the patience though- he's in a "win now" mode. Well you can't win with inferior talent. I thought you were in it for sustainable success Jimmy, or did I hear you wrong?
I'm not an "expert" by any means, but I tend to disagree with the argument that there is no "surefire franchise QB" in this draft. Usually, scouts can decide the top player at a given position based on "comparing" them to others at the same spot. This year, I think all 4 QBs (Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr/Bortles) are so different in their style-of-play that it is hard to make a comparitive argument for who is the best. If any of these guys were in the draft last year vs. Smith/Manuel, all 4 would be compared favorably over either of those guys. In my opinion, these guys are all good enough to be drafted 1-4 and just like every draft in history 2 out of those 4 are going to lead their teams to success... To achieve that success, your FO has one of two options - 1) draft the guy that best fits what you are trying to do on offense, or 2) draft the most talented guy and fit your offense to them... Look at the NFC - 3 of the final 4 teams took option #2 (of course those teams have pretty solid coaching staffs - but that is for another argument)... It's hard to predict success, but it's worth it to gamble on that QB b/c I'd hate to go into another season and know by week 4 that there is no hope b/c "we don't have a quarterback"...
History says one of the 4 will be great, one will be average, one below average, and one a total bust. Step right up any play draft day roulette.
They don't have to be starters- just add quality depth. And we can do what we did last year trade some of those lower picks for higher picks in 2015.
Question is- is there a true franchise sure-fire guy in this draft? There's no Andrew Luck. Trade the 2nd first for someone's first AND second in 2015 when we have a shot at Mariotta. I doubt Haslam's going to have the patience though- he's in a "win now" mode. Well you can't win with inferior talent. I thought you were in it for sustainable success Jimmy, or did I hear you wrong?
History says one of the 4 will be great, one will be average, one below average, and one a total bust. Step right up any play draft day roulette.
Maybe this time the Browns should bet on black.
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@mike-h said:
Hoorta + Hipper:
You CAN'T say there is no franchise QB in this class.
The top tier guys all have some really good attributes.
As for there being no Andrew Luck in this class....Not every franchise QB was a no-brainer No. 1 overall pick.
The team will be put in a tough position if it can't find it's top rated QB and then put a value on him.
If they rate Bortles, Teddy or Johnny Football as that No. 1, how can they NOT trade up to get their top guy? The risk of missing the guy they handpicked for another gamble of a draft pick is not good reasoning.
I don't know yet whether I would do that because I haven't seen enough Bortles or JFF, but Bridgewater looks really appealing. If the other two are close, or better, I think I would stay put at 4, but in not so sure that's the case, yet.
If they surrender a pick to move up, they have plenty of ammo to move up again throughout the draft. That's my only real point here.
10 draft picks are for positioning. Any takers for a bet that Lombardi doesn't draft 10 players in May?
My perception though is that the guys that are available in this draft seem to be so evenly matched....even though they may have different styles that it is not prudent to sell the farm to move up to get a guy that may be no better than the guy you can get staying where you are.
I honestly cannot say if Bridgewater is really all that over Bortles/Manziel/Carr...or that any one of them are that much over any of the others.
One or the other may turn out to be much better than the others.....but right not that seems impossible to me to gauge who.
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come on man! you're supposed to be a reporter reporting things unbiased to us browns' fans. as such you can't be going around saying hop on the johnny football train or bridgewater is worth a number one pick overall.
there is NO qb in this draft that is worth a consensus #1 pick. not at all. now if bridgewater was built like kaepernik i would be all about doing a redskins deal to get that guy. 2 of the top 5 QBs are shorter than webster and have a body structure like a twig. you really want to TRADE UP for a guy who when the wind blows bows and the cradle will rock?
fuck that noise. get us the best D playmaker or the best O player and i ain't talking QB.
the gems will be gleaming in 2015. let's se what hoyer can do with the draft picks and FA signings we get from the new jewratbastardo FO this year. if they seem competent then go balls to the wall in 2015 and pick up hundley or winston.
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