Eric Barton
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You get pas rushers to stop the Qb from passing, right? Forget Pass rushers for now....We cannot stop the run and haven't since we had earl holmes in the middle. Worry about pass rushers after you fill the gaping hole everybody runs through on us. Everybody worries about a pass rush...James Harrison (defensive MVP)was a UDFA. Woodley a second rounder...Pittsburgh Defense Number 1 against the run!!!!!!! Fill the freaking hole in the ILB positions then get passrushers....Can't anyone see the obvious?
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CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.
Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
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CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.
Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
Masters said:
CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
If you get Curry awesome but if he is Gone....I pray they get Rey!
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Masters said:
CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
If you get Curry awesome but if he is Gone....I pray they get Rey!
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Masters said:
I just can't see the value of Rey at #5 in the 1st round. I also just don't believe he was the best LB or defensive player for USC. Which makes taking a guy like him at #5 even more scary to me.You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
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Masters said:
I just can't see the value of Rey at #5 in the 1st round. I also just don't believe he was the best LB or defensive player for USC. Which makes taking a guy like him at #5 even more scary to me.You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.
Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
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You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.
Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
Masters said:
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
Guess you missed the last sentence......Strickly a value arguement....
P.S. Rey M will be and is a three down Linebacker.
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and the comments above were why I started the post about best available vs need. We need LBs (both ILB and pass rush OLB) but if Curry is gone, at what point are we reaching for need and passing on the best player available.
I would rather try to grab the best LB I could get through FA and then take the best player available.
I agree with those above that think Rey is a reach with the #5 pick as is every other defensive player except Curry, at this point before the combine and pro days anyway.
If Curry is gone then we will be kicking ourselves that we didn't go hard after a Bart Scott or Crowder.
IMO once you get past Curry then the best defensive players are Jenkins, Everette Brown and Raji. And, they are all need reaches at #5.
Fill your needs in FA and take the best players available in the draft.
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Masters said:
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
Guess you missed the last sentence......Strickly a value arguement....
P.S. Rey M will be and is a three down Linebacker.
Guess you missed the last sentence......Strickly a value arguement....
P.S. Rey M will be and is a three down Linebacker.
I didn't miss it. Strictly value, Troy P was worth better. Rey still isn't. Five years from now it may come to fruition that he was worth better than where he was picked. But I sure won't count on that. If we want to go by that, I can find you guys every year who were drafted much higher than what their value ended up. The only things Troy and Rey have in comon now is the Samoan thing and USC.
Funny, scouts all over seem to disagree with you on that. Not to mention that in just about every 3-4, the guy playing SILB is the one that goes to the sidelines in Nickle and dime packages.
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after Curry I don't see Any guy of Value at 5...so for me...rey is the guy! I believe Curry will be gone by the time we pick....so I go rey...98 percent chance we can't trade down...who do you want....I'd be happy with Jenkins, or orakpo but still to me same VALUE as REY
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and the comments above were why I started the post about best available vs need. We need LBs (both ILB and pass rush OLB) but if Curry is gone, at what point are we reaching for need and passing on the best player available.
I would rather try to grab the best LB I could get through FA and then take the best player available.
I agree with those above that think Rey is a reach with the #5 pick as is every other defensive player except Curry, at this point before the combine and pro days anyway.
If Curry is gone then we will be kicking ourselves that we didn't go hard after a Bart Scott or Crowder.
IMO once you get past Curry then the best defensive players are Jenkins, Everette Brown and Raji. And, they are all need reaches at #5.
Fill your needs in FA and take the best players available in the draft.
and the comments above were why I started the post about best available vs need. We need LBs (both ILB and pass rush OLB) but if Curry is gone, at what point are we reaching for need and passing on the best player available.
I would rather try to grab the best LB I could get through FA and then take the best player available.
I agree with those above that think Rey is a reach with the #5 pick as is every other defensive player except Curry, at this point before the combine and pro days anyway.
If Curry is gone then we will be kicking ourselves that we didn't go hard after a Bart Scott or Crowder.
IMO once you get past Curry then the best defensive players are Jenkins, Everette Brown and Raji. And, they are all need reaches at #5.
Fill your needs in FA and take the best players available in the draft.
AS you say...all are reaches at 5. We have to stop the RUN...we have a dominant NT....give me a dominant ILB behind him and we stop the run!!!
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after Curry I don't see Any guy of Value at 5...so for me...rey is the guy! I believe Curry will be gone by the time we pick....so I go rey...98 percent chance we can't trade down...who do you want....I'd be happy with Jenkins, or orakpo but still to me same VALUE as REY
after Curry I don't see Any guy of Value at 5...so for me...rey is the guy! I believe Curry will be gone by the time we pick....so I go rey...98 percent chance we can't trade down...who do you want....I'd be happy with Jenkins, or orakpo but still to me same VALUE as REY
I'd find Jenkins value more, if he could convert to saftey. Especially if CLE loses Jones, which I think they will
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and the comments above were why I started the post about best available vs need. We need LBs (both ILB and pass rush OLB) but if Curry is gone, at what point are we reaching for need and passing on the best player available.
I would rather try to grab the best LB I could get through FA and then take the best player available.
I agree with those above that think Rey is a reach with the #5 pick as is every other defensive player except Curry, at this point before the combine and pro days anyway.
If Curry is gone then we will be kicking ourselves that we didn't go hard after a Bart Scott or Crowder.
IMO once you get past Curry then the best defensive players are Jenkins, Everette Brown and Raji. And, they are all need reaches at #5.
Fill your needs in FA and take the best players available in the draft.
AS you say...all are reaches at 5. We have to stop the RUN...we have a dominant NT....give me a dominant ILB behind him and we stop the run!!!
AS you say...all are reaches at 5. We have to stop the RUN...we have a dominant NT....give me a dominant ILB behind him and we stop the run!!!
I'd still say who is the dominant ILB for PIT, NE, SD, Jets, or MIA (with PIT being #1 against the run)? They all do not have a guy I'd call dominant.
Man I wish Mays was coming out of USC this year
While not a LB, he will be a force like Troy P and Reed in the NFL -
i think it's far likelier that we could get a quality ILB in FA than we could a pass rusher. of the three raven LBs that will be free agents this year, the only two that the ravens will consider letting go are scott and lewis. suggs is just far too important to that defense, especially with a new coordinator coming in, to let go. the same somewhat stands for lewis; as the heart and soul of a defense with a new coordinator coming in, he'll be necessary to retain the defense's identity in 2009.
scott will want to prove himself. he might be ed hartwell, but he might also have actual talent. it's a crapshoot at best. there's also channing crowder from miami who could start for us.
however, there's likely to be no pass rushing threat available in free agency, something that the FO will consider when putting together their draft board. there's no way suggs gets out of baltimore, and, as much as i'd like julius peppers, it's possible he'd be a bad fit in the 3-4 (i personally don't think so) or that he's just using wanting tot leave as a ploy to make more money. therefore, with ILBs available in FA but no pass rushers, i think the FO will look heavily at everette brown, orakpo, larry english and clint sintim as possibilities for us in the first in addition to rey and curry, with OLB being a likelier pick because there are fewer options for us to pick up free agents at the position.
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If Curry is there- get him. If he goes to KC or anyone else- get Rey Mualagala...
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and the comments above were why I started the post about best available vs need. We need LBs (both ILB and pass rush OLB) but if Curry is gone, at what point are we reaching for need and passing on the best player available.
I would rather try to grab the best LB I could get through FA and then take the best player available.
I agree with those above that think Rey is a reach with the #5 pick as is every other defensive player except Curry, at this point before the combine and pro days anyway.
If Curry is gone then we will be kicking ourselves that we didn't go hard after a Bart Scott or Crowder.
IMO once you get past Curry then the best defensive players are Jenkins, Everette Brown and Raji. And, they are all need reaches at #5.
Fill your needs in FA and take the best players available in the draft.
AS you say...all are reaches at 5. We have to stop the RUN...we have a dominant NT....give me a dominant ILB behind him and we stop the run!!!
AS you say...all are reaches at 5. We have to stop the RUN...we have a dominant NT....give me a dominant ILB behind him and we stop the run!!!
Last year you made the call on Mayo and from the combine until draft day his value really jumped. I would imagine that once we see the combine workouts and the pro days our opinions may very well change. Our needs may also depend on what happens in FA.
I still say that if Curry and Crabtree are gone we will have suiters for a trade because Sanchez will rock their socks at the combine and at his pro day. I am not a draft for need type guy, but I say it may be easier to fill the ILB position in FA then find a pass rusher.
I also believe that Everette Brown and Raji's stock will skyrocket after the combine and their pro days.
If we don't get a Crowder or Scott in FA then it just might be Curry or how far do you trade down. This is a very deep LB draft and an additional 2nd rounder may be better then a reach in the first round.
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Everybody says it's easier to get a ILB in FA...if that is the case why haven't the Browns had one in 40 years?
Also to JD....English is a LATE first rounder and may even make it to second round after being beaten by Oher most of the senior Bowl....no way on God's green earth is he a top 10ner IMO>
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AS you say...all are reaches at 5. We have to stop the RUN...we have a dominant NT....give me a dominant ILB behind him and we stop the run!!!
I'd still say who is the dominant ILB for PIT, NE, SD, Jets, or MIA (with PIT being #1 against the run)? They all do not have a guy I'd call dominant.
Man I wish Mays was coming out of USC this year
While not a LB, he will be a force like Troy P and Reed in the NFLMasters said:
I'd still say who is the dominant ILB for PIT, NE, SD, Jets, or MIA (with PIT being #1 against the run)? They all do not have a guy I'd call dominant.Man I wish Mays was coming out of USC this year
While not a LB, he will be a force like Troy P and Reed in the NFLas to Pitt Farrior and foote are KA together Not a singletary, but together are the best in football. Mayo and Bruchi are very close...I don't follow the chargers but as I recall they got Gashed inside on the run all year...jets have Harris whom I wanted badly...Miami is a mystery to me!
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I'd stay away from Barton. Very emotional player (good) but overmatched in pass defense (both in rush and coverage). Looked VERY bad against Buffalo in run defense. He's the kind of guy who in baseball would be a starter who eats up innings and is mostly serviceable but will regularly be overmatched.
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I'd stay away from Barton. Very emotional player (good) but overmatched in pass defense (both in rush and coverage). Looked VERY bad against Buffalo in run defense. He's the kind of guy who in baseball would be a starter who eats up innings and is mostly serviceable but will regularly be overmatched.
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