Who is the number one player you want in the 2014 draft?

Flyin J

@tour2ma said:

Thanks... see that did not hurt a bit...

And for the record, as of now, I have Bridgewater leading this pack of three... it's just that Teddy is also #4 on my board and I do not elevate based upon need.

haha go back and look at my posts, I've been makin the case for Manziel for over a month.

PoeticG

My poll question went with the story I wrote. What are you talking about? I asked you to pick one player from the draft that would change the fortunes of the Cleveland Browns. I believe that I picked Derek Carr.

I may have mentioned that a lot of people like Sammy Watkins, and as long as their is the belief that Derek = David then there is a good change a lot of teams may pass on him. THUS, allowing us to take both Watkins and Derek Carr.

I would take Watkins first because he will not be there past the top 6 picks, Derek may fall a little bit, I don't see it and personally I wouldn't risk it. I'd trade back up to pick Carr ala Brady Quinn, if I had to.

David Carr was a bust because he was the number 1 overall pick. Obviously he was the number 1 overall for a reason, correct? He didn't pan out much the same reason Couch didn't, poor Oline play from an expansion team. It's QB suicide. Derek is on par with the skill that David had and is capable of being a franchise QB. I'm just ready to get our QB and continue to build the team.

I would make sure I moved up from 26 before the draft even got close. Ensure myself 2 picks in the top 10. I'd take Carr and Watkins. If I could only have one of the two? In that case I'd take Carr, period.

Tour2ma

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
a B+ QB is worth more than an A reciever. If we dont take him someone else will in the next couple picks which makes him worth that selection. I agree that the path is paved with talent....at the QB position. And I believe Hoyer would be a great mentor because hes a very likeable guy, and seems to know his stuff.

But in my book, Sammy is the A+ in the draft and I don't take a B-anything player with my #4... sorry, I just don't.

I do not follow your "someone else will" logic... Someone else will draft over 200 players we pass over with our first pick.

I am starting to believe that we are never going to see eye-to-eye on this thing... ...but I am enjoying the conversation.

I agree on Hoyer, which combined with the fact that I am optimistic on his successful return to health, is why he is my 2014 starter. I could not believe it when I read he was up and walking without crutches only 2 weeks after surgury... a brace, but no crutches.

@mike-h said:

Any mobile QB has a high risk for injury, JF's, and especially Bridgewater--who is more of a pocket passer--are no higher than any others.

So are you advocating against moving in that direction?

"JF's"???

Advocating against going to a pocket passer? No... but physicality is a factor for pocket passers as well. Same as a running QB? No, but still a factor.

@poeticg said:

My poll question went with the story I wrote. What are you talking about?

I would take Watkins first because he will not be there past the top 6 picks, Derek may fall a little bit, I don't see it and personally I wouldn't risk it. I'd trade back up to pick Carr ala Brady Quinn, if I had to.

"Who is the number one player you want in the 2014 draft?"

In my mind the answer is the player you take with the first pick you have... but I do see what you are saying. In my case the one I want the most and the one who I would take with my first pick are one in the same...

Flyin J

@tour2ma said:

But in my book, Sammy is the A+ in the draft and I don't take a B-anything player with my #4... sorry, I just don't.

I do not follow your "someone else will" logic... Someone else will draft over 200 players we pass over with our first pick.

I am starting to believe that we are never going to see eye-to-eye on this thing... ...but I am enjoying the conversation.

I agree on Hoyer, which combined with the fact that I am optimistic on his successful return to health, is why he is my 2014 starter. I could not believe it when I read he was up and walking without crutches only 2 weeks after surgury... a brace, but no crutches.

"JF's"???

Advocating against going to a pocket passer? No... but physicality is a factor for pocket passers as well. Same as a running QB? No, but still a factor.

"Who is the number one player you want in the 2014 draft?"

In my mind the answer is the player you take with the first pick you have... but I do see what you are saying. In my case the one I want the most and the one who I would take with my first pick are one in the same...

Haha me too. In every other year I think just like you, take the best player on your board and move on....I'm just so damn sick of the QB situation here, and I dont think Hoyer is much more than a stop-gap at starter. Combine that with the unlikelihood we'll be picking top 5 again anytime soon, and you get where Im at.

jeffinwv

Im positive the NFL boys will learn him to tuck that ball...ive noticed he carrys it like a loaf o bread too.

But hes got an NFL arm...that's for sure. But I still believe he has an ultra high celing. he highest of all the QBs comin out...That's Why I would like to draft him

cdl15

Carlos Hyde

bbedward

@jcam222 said:
More importantly than needing a QB is not over reaching for one. I suppose I am in the minority but to me if you put Gordon, Watkins and Cameron on the field for Hoyer to throw to I am happy. Put someone like Mettlenberger on the bench to learn behind him.

I'm in this group.

We already have a #1 receiver blah. Let's do it, I've always liked Aaron Murray tho.

bbedward

@poeticg said:

Now, was that so hard? I actually figured you for Manziel but Bridgewater went with my troll dig. Anyways, I liked Manziel as well, up until this past weekend, I read up on Carr and I have a good feeling about this guy.

I get it, Manziel is the flashier pick. I wouldn't mind Manziel really. I actually wouldn't mind any Qb, as long as his name isn't Weeden I'm golden.

I don't agree with your QB evaluation ability since you think Colt McCoy should still be our franchise QB.

Every criticism McCoy had coming out he couldn't overcome. Noodle arm doesn't really work in the NFL because of the speed these defenses have.

Maybe if he had the mind of Peyton Manning he could make it work.

I like Carr, but your endorsement worries me lol.

Hoyer is 10x the QB McCoy is anyway.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@poeticg said:

Derek Carr has the best arm of any quarterback in this class and has the ability the make any throw. His footwork could use improvement but he reads defenses and adjusts to pressure. He has great athleticism and can elude pass rushers. He's big enough that he can take the hits and get back up.

I would love to know what scouting report you read this from, because you've obviously watched zero film on Carr.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mike-h said:

Bingo.

I watched enough, I have the pukebags to prove it. No, I really don't. But seriously, I got em.

I struggled my way through every single game of his this season. If I see another WR screen pass, I'll literally die.

hoorta

Ice Dawg19 said:

Watch Manziel run. He runs with the ball away from his body, flaring it all over. His scrambling is all over the field and has no structure to it, he also likes to turn into blindsided areas. In the NFL he is going to get smashed, and fumbles will be the norm. Watch Russel Wilson scramble, it looks somewhat structured compared to that backyard football crap that Manziel tries.

Draft Watkins, and be done with it.

@mike-h said:
Scrambling is not a structured or designed play. There is no "good scrambling" vs. "bad scrambling" . He does hold the ball out where defenders can get it, that's the only relevant point you made. If he did that in my training camp, he would be benched until he learned to tuck it securely.

Excuse me Mike, you're still minimizing Football's flaws, and maximizing his strengths.

tml1138

@mike-h said:
Scrambling is not a structured or designed play. There is no "good scrambling" vs. "bad scrambling" . He does hold the ball out where defenders can get it, that's the only relevant point you made. If he did that in my training camp, he would be benched until he learned to tuck it securely.

Speaking of this, did you see Kaepernick on scrambles in the divisional playoff game vs Panthers? Holding the ball one hand, away from his body, no tuck. And this in a playoff game pulling that crap. I bet Manziel will do the same thing in the NFL.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tml1138 said:

Speaking of this, did you see Kaepernick on scrambles in the divisional playoff game vs Panthers? Holding the ball one hand, away from his body, no tuck. And this in a playoff game pulling that crap. I bet Manziel will do the same thing in the NFL.

Get his team to the playoffs?

Flyin J

Lol^

cdl15

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
I struggled my way through every single game of his this season. If I see another WR screen pass, I'll literally die.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@cdl15 said:

No.

tml1138

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Get his team to the playoffs?

Ha!

Only a matter of time until something bad happens, leaving the ball unprotected like that.

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:

No, Tour, I mean, every mobile QB has a higher risk for injury. Are you advocating against the shift towards that style of play?

Manziel ran on a ton of designed runs and option pass plays. His offense in the pros would have to minimize the risk, but incorporate a lot of the skills he has, like boot legs and zone reads.

I think the game is definitely trending that way, woukdnt you feel safe having Hoyer as the backup, ala Cousins in DC, if something did happen to JF?

I just think a competent dual threat QB opens things up exponentially, and it would be silly to resist the trend because if that fear.

Advocating against the read option? Yes... I am doing that. What I am afraid of is spending a high pick on a QB that does not survive his rookie season to follow a trend that will reverse itself before we can effectively implement it.

In 2014 I'd feel better with Hoyer starting with Campbell and "Rookie-TDB" throwing to Gordon and Watkins.

If you want to run the read option at the pro level there are plenty of lower round QBs we can tab. One might even turn out to be another Kaepernick or Wilson. But to spend a high #1, let alone any #1, on a read option QB is just insane in my book.

Oh... but I did figure out JF=JohnnyFootball... so I've got that going for me...

Ice Dawg19 said:

Watch Manziel run. He runs with the ball away from his body, flaring it all over. His scrambling is all over the field and has no structure to it, he also likes to turn into blindsided areas. In the NFL he is going to get smashed, and fumbles will be the norm. Watch Russel Wilson scramble, it looks somewhat structured compared to that backyard football crap that Manziel tries.

Draft Watkins, and be done with it.

Damn... now I'm actually starting to like you...

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
No.

LOL... was a bit too obvious???

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tml1138 said:

Ha!

Only a matter of time until something bad happens, leaving the ball unprotected like that.

I'm sure you're referring to fumbles.

Like the 12 fumbles Brandon Weeden has so far. The 12 fumbles that go with his 155 rushing yards. That's an average of 6 yards per game.

I'm not a Manziel proponent. I would rather see us go with Bortles, personally. But you're nitpicking over an easily remedied issue.

As Mike said, bench him in camp until he learns to tuck the ball. That's it, game over.

Not taking a guy who could possibly turn the franchise around because he might fumble when making plays is just...it's just...I literally cannot think of the right adjective.

PoeticG

Watch this past seasons game vs. Boise State. Then get back to me. Derek spread the ball all over the field and shredded them. He made play after play and with the game on the line, under extreme pressure, drove the ball down the field and pulled off the victory.

So what if he had a bad bowl game. He should have gotten the Heisman but was snubbed, typical. Should go to the best senior, which Carr was. Most yards, ton of TDs, give me a break- he wasn't even close. All players lose sometimes. Hell, look at the NFL, Rodgers is at home, all but 4 are watching with the rest of us, there's some good ones out too, but in the end only 1 will win the Lombardi.

And obviously, 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh sees enough in Colt McCoy to have him the heir apparent should something happen to Kap. He's scrambling and taking hits, it's just a matter of time until Colt will need to step in and Jim is fine with Colt doing that, even if it's the Superbowl.

NOW, I'm sorry if you don't care for my opinion of Colt, but an NFL head coach like Harbaugh's opinion carries a hell of a lot more weight than your gay fucking noodle arm statement.

Regardless of what you think, we were much closer to being a relevant franchise again when Colt was the QB than we were this last year with the revolving door of cow shit we had slinging it across the field. And Colt didn't even have a WR worth his weight in salt(AND SALT IS FUCKING CHEAP)!

Arm Strength is something you need to go learn a thing or two about, I think you are confused about what is important and just how much "arm strength" is needed. You can have all the arm strength in the world but if attached to Brandon Weeden it doesn't really matter. Your arm strength attached to Peyton Manning could still be enough to get the job done. It's irrelevant.