Who is the number one player you want in the 2014 draft?
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Poetic G says a lot of strange things, but lets not forget that he also makes some viable points. Obviously McCoy and Weeden were both inadequate quarterbacks, but Weeden had a FAR better situation as far as weapons and protection. The fact that Weeden couldn't deliver more wins than McCoy with the offensive upgrades he had truly speaks to his incompetence as an NFL qb.
McCoy was behind half of an O-line with Massoquai and Little and a far less qualified coach calling the plays.
The main problem, in my eyes, is that Weeden didn't come out earlier. If we had drafted him instead of McCoy, chances are good we would've been in position to draft Luck. Just think about Weeden playing behind the right side of the line that McCoy had to deal with! No Gordon, no TR (he DID have 12 Tds and over 1300 all purpose yards). Weedster would've set records for sacks taken as well as interceptions.
It all would've served the greater good, the browns would've been lucky to limp out of the 2011 season with one win, and we'd be watching the 2013 Browns in the playoffs under Andrew Luck's leadership. We'd be talking about the first round pick we got from Indy as if it was our first (because it would be) and things would be far more laid back here on the browns board.
We wouldn't be bitching about how lucky Indy is for going from Manning to Luck with only one down year. Fuck, Indy is going to be relevant for another ten years fresh off of their recent winnings due to their QB play....
So yes, McCoy is much better than Weeden, and yes the Browns SHOULD'VE drafted Weeden, they just did it at the wrong time. If that goofy bastard had only come out two years earlier, damn...
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Poetic G says a lot of strange things, but lets not forget that he also makes some viable points. Obviously McCoy and Weeden were both inadequate quarterbacks, but Weeden had a FAR better situation as far as weapons and protection. The fact that Weeden couldn't deliver more wins than McCoy with the offensive upgrades he had truly speaks to his incompetence as an NFL qb.
McCoy was behind half of an O-line with Massoquai and Little and a far less qualified coach calling the plays.
The main problem, in my eyes, is that Weeden didn't come out earlier. If we had drafted him instead of McCoy, chances are good we would've been in position to draft Luck. Just think about Weeden playing behind the right side of the line that McCoy had to deal with! No Gordon, no TR (he DID have 12 Tds and over 1300 all purpose yards). Weedster would've set records for sacks taken as well as interceptions.
It all would've served the greater good, the browns would've been lucky to limp out of the 2011 season with one win, and we'd be watching the 2013 Browns in the playoffs under Andrew Luck's leadership. We'd be talking about the first round pick we got from Indy as if it was our first (because it would be) and things would be far more laid back here on the browns board.
We wouldn't be bitching about how lucky Indy is for going from Manning to Luck with only one down year. Fuck, Indy is going to be relevant for another ten years fresh off of their recent winnings due to their QB play....
So yes, McCoy is much better than Weeden, and yes the Browns SHOULD'VE drafted Weeden, they just did it at the wrong time. If that goofy bastard had only come out two years earlier, damn...
Poetic G says a lot of strange things, but lets not forget that he also makes some viable points. Obviously McCoy and Weeden were both inadequate quarterbacks, but Weeden had a FAR better situation as far as weapons and protection. The fact that Weeden couldn't deliver more wins than McCoy with the offensive upgrades he had truly speaks to his incompetence as an NFL qb.
McCoy was behind half of an O-line with Massoquai and Little and a far less qualified coach calling the plays.
The main problem, in my eyes, is that Weeden didn't come out earlier. If we had drafted him instead of McCoy, chances are good we would've been in position to draft Luck. Just think about Weeden playing behind the right side of the line that McCoy had to deal with! No Gordon, no TR (he DID have 12 Tds and over 1300 all purpose yards). Weedster would've set records for sacks taken as well as interceptions.
It all would've served the greater good, the browns would've been lucky to limp out of the 2011 season with one win, and we'd be watching the 2013 Browns in the playoffs under Andrew Luck's leadership. We'd be talking about the first round pick we got from Indy as if it was our first (because it would be) and things would be far more laid back here on the browns board.
We wouldn't be bitching about how lucky Indy is for going from Manning to Luck with only one down year. Fuck, Indy is going to be relevant for another ten years fresh off of their recent winnings due to their QB play....
So yes, McCoy is much better than Weeden, and yes the Browns SHOULD'VE drafted Weeden, they just did it at the wrong time. If that goofy bastard had only come out two years earlier, damn...
McCoys ceiling is an OK backup.
Weedens ceiling is practice squad starter.
McCoy is far from being the same as Hoyer, even if Hoyer stays a backup he's a damn better backup than McCoy.
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Poetic G says a lot of strange things, but lets not forget that he also makes some viable points. Obviously McCoy and Weeden were both inadequate quarterbacks, but Weeden had a FAR better situation as far as weapons and protection. The fact that Weeden couldn't deliver more wins than McCoy with the offensive upgrades he had truly speaks to his incompetence as an NFL qb.
McCoy was behind half of an O-line with Massoquai and Little and a far less qualified coach calling the plays.
The main problem, in my eyes, is that Weeden didn't come out earlier. If we had drafted him instead of McCoy, chances are good we would've been in position to draft Luck. Just think about Weeden playing behind the right side of the line that McCoy had to deal with! No Gordon, no TR (he DID have 12 Tds and over 1300 all purpose yards). Weedster would've set records for sacks taken as well as interceptions.
It all would've served the greater good, the browns would've been lucky to limp out of the 2011 season with one win, and we'd be watching the 2013 Browns in the playoffs under Andrew Luck's leadership. We'd be talking about the first round pick we got from Indy as if it was our first (because it would be) and things would be far more laid back here on the browns board.
We wouldn't be bitching about how lucky Indy is for going from Manning to Luck with only one down year. Fuck, Indy is going to be relevant for another ten years fresh off of their recent winnings due to their QB play....
So yes, McCoy is much better than Weeden, and yes the Browns SHOULD'VE drafted Weeden, they just did it at the wrong time. If that goofy bastard had only come out two years earlier, damn...
McCoys ceiling is an OK backup.
Weedens ceiling is practice squad starter.
McCoy is far from being the same as Hoyer, even if Hoyer stays a backup he's a damn better backup than McCoy.
McCoys ceiling is an OK backup.
Weedens ceiling is practice squad starter.
McCoy is far from being the same as Hoyer, even if Hoyer stays a backup he's a damn better backup than McCoy.
Without question, Hoyer is absolutely better than McCoy.
Comparing just about anyone to weeden will make them look like a star.
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I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
Woof Woof! -
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I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
read the poll question again...I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
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read the poll question again...I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
read the poll question again...
Whoops!
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If the Niners win but Kaeperdick gets hurt and Colt McCoy starts the Super Bowl...someone will have to sedate Po G, and I'm not kidding,
Z
I'd be happy for him too. So what?Zombo said:
If the Niners win but Kaeperdick gets hurt and Colt McCoy starts the Super Bowl...someone will have to sedate Po G, and I'm not kidding,
Z
T Rich was a turd from day one in my opinion but McCoy?
WSS
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I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
read the poll question again...
I read the poll question just fine- and I largely agree with Kennel Club. I voted Watkins, No trade up (one of the 4 top qbs will be there without moving up). My only difference is no Manziel. Highest injury risk, and most off- field red flags.
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I'd be happy for him too. So what?Zombo said:
If the Niners win but Kaeperdick gets hurt and Colt McCoy starts the Super Bowl...someone will have to sedate Po G, and I'm not kidding,
Z
T Rich was a turd from day one in my opinion but McCoy?
WSS
I'd be happy for him too. So what?
T Rich was a turd from day one in my opinion but McCoy?
WSS
"Happy" ... yes.
Po G will lose his mind. I will be worried for him and the innocents around him.
Zombo
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I voted for Watkins as I don't feel Manziel will be there at 4. However, I would be just as happy if we pick Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I just don't want the FO to use the 2nd 1st round pick to move up in the draft.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
read the poll question again...
I read the poll question just fine- and I largely agree with Kennel Club. I voted Watkins, No trade up (one of the 4 top qbs will be there without moving up). My only difference is no Manziel. Highest injury risk, and most off- field red flags.
I only said that because he said he woulda picked Manziel but thought he'd be gone. I dont think Manziel has any more injury risk than Carr or Bridgewater. Im 100% not worried about any off-field problems with him either.I read the poll question just fine- and I largely agree with Kennel Club. I voted Watkins, No trade up (one of the 4 top qbs will be there without moving up). My only difference is no Manziel. Highest injury risk, and most off- field red flags.
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I'll go with Sammy too....
You guys might think I'm totally wrong, but i'd rather go with a guy like Garoppolo and snatch Sammy and and G/CB.
Bridgewater would definitely be the safest, and Johnny Football the highest risk/reward.
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@mike-h said:
There is no "good scrambling" vs. "bad scrambling" .
Actually I think there is. Good scrambling somehow looks controlled even with chaos all around and produces at least neutral outcomes... and often very positive ones. On the other hand bad seems to actually add to, intensify the chaos, and produces the feeling that "this is not going to turn out well."
Are you Lumburgh?
LOL... I smell a new avatar coming...
So yes, McCoy is much better than Weeden, and yes the Browns SHOULD'VE drafted Weeden, they just did it at the wrong time. If that goofy bastard had only come out two years earlier, damn...
Always a nice surprise to see a completely new take on an old topic...
Zombo said:
If the Niners win but Kaeperdick gets hurt and Colt McCoy starts the Super Bowl...someone will have to sedate Po G, and I'm not kidding,
Actually typing this through tears... I was laughing that hard...
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@mike-h said:
Manziel scrambles very effectively, because you don't like the way it looks is a bit of a weird analysis. I'm not sure I understand. But enjoy that opinion
You must be confusing me with others who disagree with you... I think Manziel is a good scrambler.
Where JF gets in trouble once his scramble turns into a positive yardage run. He pushes for too much positive yardage too often and as a result takes more punishment than he should.
He was bulletproof his Freshman year, not so much his Sophomore.
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@mike-h said:
Others who disagree with me how? I haven't taken any stance, other than I feel the concerns you're expressing about JF's "over-scrambling" are overblown.
BS. You have it right there Mike- we are concerned you're minimizing his injury risk taking off running, much less standing in the pocket. He isn't Rothlisberger, or Newton. He's a faster damn version of Colt McCoy, with a slightly better arm- so prove me wrong. One thing I've learned for sure evaluating qbs since 1999 is- you maximize their weaknesses, and minimize their strengths. And add in Manziel has more off field red flags that the other top 3 qb prospects combined. So keep on pimping your favorite guy- I'm not buying. Now if you want to comment about Johnny Football's incredible ability of doing pre snap reads, and deciphering a pro level defense, instead of scrambling around until one of his receivers breaks wide open, I'm all for it.
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I'd take Watkins over the QB's in this draft.
As much as I'd like to hope that Johnny would come in and light it up, I feel like he is the next RGIII on constant rehab.
I feel like Hoyer has just as good of/ maybe better chance to come in and play solid as any of these rookies would.
Watkins, Gordon, and Cameron plus a solid running game.... I think Hoyer takes the helm with that crew and wins alot of games.
I'd take Watkins over the QB's in this draft.
As much as I'd like to hope that Johnny would come in and light it up, I feel like he is the next RGIII on constant rehab.
I feel like Hoyer has just as good of/ maybe better chance to come in and play solid as any of these rookies would.
Watkins, Gordon, and Cameron plus a solid running game.... I think Hoyer takes the helm with that crew and wins alot of games.
agree
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@mike-h said:
For Manziel, his fundamentals break down when he's hurried, especially on deep attempts. That causes him to underthrow, despite having the ability to make the throws.
Off the field he has a lot of fun, Matt Leinhart did too, but Leinhart didn't have his athleticism or arm talent. Despite the "character concerns." I've heard nothing but good things about him in the locker room and as a student of the game.
His "style of scrambling" does not concern me, but I would like to see him tuck the ball sooner and more securely when he does take off.
When hurried, JF often just flat chucks the ball. Evans bailed him out on more than a few occasions.
No disagreement that JF is more athletic, but I always heard that Leinhart just did not put in the hours. That would be my concern with JF (or any prospect) and at least to my mind is different than being a good student of the game.
So... no issues with style of scrambling... just want to change one of the elements of his style. It's not that easy, Mike... as I am sure you saw in Wilson's early fumble vs SF. As he moved, Wilson was keeping the ball ready to throw and Smith just got on him faster than expected. Going to be the same with JF.
Not sure how many JF games you are up to now, but I caught him 5 times this year...
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I watched the A&M vs. Missouri game recently, and it made me hope Manziel doesn't end up in a Browns jersey... But, then I watched the Alabama game again, and he looked pretty good...
I still think he lacks the ability to step into the pocket, see the entire field, plant his feet, and make a nice accurate throw. He dances too much in the backfield, and tries to outrun DEs when they are getting pressure. He also makes stupid throws when he is under pressure, but I'll give him credit he puts them in places where his guys could make plays...
I'd still prefer Bortles, Bridgewater, or Carr, but I'm going to keep watching Manziel's games (probably on YouTube) to try and find out if an NFL QB exists in there... right now, I'm thinking no...
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@mike-h said:
For Manziel, his fundamentals break down when he's hurried, especially on deep attempts. That causes him to underthrow, despite having the ability to make the throws.
Off the field he has a lot of fun, Matt Leinhart did too, but Leinhart didn't have his athleticism or arm talent. Despite the "character concerns." I've heard nothing but good things about him in the locker room and as a student of the game.
His "style of scrambling" does not concern me, but I would like to see him tuck the ball sooner and more securely when he does take off.
When hurried, JF often just flat chucks the ball. Evans bailed him out on more than a few occasions.
No disagreement that JF is more athletic, but I always heard that Leinhart just did not put in the hours. That would be my concern with JF (or any prospect) and at least to my mind is different than being a good student of the game.
So... no issues with style of scrambling... just want to change one of the elements of his style. It's not that easy, Mike... as I am sure you saw in Wilson's early fumble vs SF. As he moved, Wilson was keeping the ball ready to throw and Smith just got on him faster than expected. Going to be the same with JF.
Not sure how many JF games you are up to now, but I caught him 5 times this year...
No disagreement that JF is more athletic, but I always heard that Leinhart just did not put in the hours. That would be my concern with JF (or any prospect) and at least to my mind is different than being a good student of the game.
I have zero concerns about Bridgewater putting in the hours, from what I've been reading he's a perfectionist and OCD when it comes to doing his homework. He programmed the entire Louisville playbook into Madden and reportedly has only lost one game of Madden (which still eats him up). Not to say that being good at Madden means he's a good QB, but translating the entire playbook to Xbox shows his dedication, I get impatient using an Xbox controller to search for movies on netflix...
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