Mike Pettine Time?
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Maybe a bit strong on some negativity there, but some good info.
Not real crazy on the Points per game, and actually looks to be essentially the same performance wise as Horton's D (i.e. - not good).
Turnovers look a bit better, but really hoping there's more to this than what I'm seeing.
Okay, read some more past the table and things look a bit better, but it's not cataclysmic.
Bills have a couple of outstanding DL's, but I'm thinking the Browns have overall more talent that should have an impact.
A bit better? 9 more interceptions and 17 more sacks is only a bit better?
Horton's defense didn't even come close to living up to the hype. We barely cracked the top 10 in most major statistical categories, our ranking is based purely off yards per game and that's it.
Opposing quarterbacks had an 82.8 rating against us, completing 60% of their passes. Compare that to Buffalo's 74.9 and 55%, respectively.
Opposing QB's had a red zone passer rating of 108.1 against us, compared to Buffalo's 84.7.
The biggest difference between the two defenses is that the Bills could finish games and we couldn't.
Opposing QB's posted an 82.8 rating and passed for 15 TD's and 9 INT's against us when trailing. Against Buffalo, they had a 64.6 rating, passing for 11 TD's and 12 INT's.
Further, when trailing with less that 4 minutes to go, opposing QB's still had a 65.8 rating against us and gained 4 net yards per attempt. Against Buffalo in the same circumstances, passers had a rating of 19.8 and had an adjusted net yardage per attempt of -.8 yards.
You might not agree with him as a head coach and for good reasons, but don't ever try and lump him in with Ray Horton. Horton is over-hyped, to say the least. I'm glad he's gone.
Horton is over-hyped, to say the least. I'm glad he's gone.
How can you say Horton was over-hyped? Correct me if I'm wrong but was anyone predicting that in one year our new defense would pee all over the 85 bears or the steel curtain from the 70's? Was that what everyone was expecting? I'm sorry but can you please explain how Horton failed after just one year? How can you be glad that we're turning the scheme over.................again
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anyway I hope they gave it to Pettine with the pre requisite they leave him the fuck alone for a couple years. At this point if we want to gain back respectability we can't fire our next coach for at least 4-5 years, hope he's the guy.
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My buddy just told me about his daughter tweeting,
"Dad said interview went well and he is going back for a second, It's the Browns, but hey still pretty cool!"
Who is the guy that makes T-Shirts around here? That might be the next best seller.... hahaha.
My buddy just told me about his daughter tweeting,
"Dad said interview went well and he is going back for a second, It's the Browns, but hey still pretty cool!"
Who is the guy that makes T-Shirts around here? That might be the next best seller.... hahaha.
Media should have a field day with that, I know I would
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Maybe a bit strong on some negativity there, but some good info.
Not real crazy on the Points per game, and actually looks to be essentially the same performance wise as Horton's D (i.e. - not good).
Turnovers look a bit better, but really hoping there's more to this than what I'm seeing.
Okay, read some more past the table and things look a bit better, but it's not cataclysmic.
Bills have a couple of outstanding DL's, but I'm thinking the Browns have overall more talent that should have an impact.
A bit better? 9 more interceptions and 17 more sacks is only a bit better?
Horton's defense didn't even come close to living up to the hype. We barely cracked the top 10 in most major statistical categories, our ranking is based purely off yards per game and that's it.
Opposing quarterbacks had an 82.8 rating against us, completing 60% of their passes. Compare that to Buffalo's 74.9 and 55%, respectively.
Opposing QB's had a red zone passer rating of 108.1 against us, compared to Buffalo's 84.7.
The biggest difference between the two defenses is that the Bills could finish games and we couldn't.
Opposing QB's posted an 82.8 rating and passed for 15 TD's and 9 INT's against us when trailing. Against Buffalo, they had a 64.6 rating, passing for 11 TD's and 12 INT's.
Further, when trailing with less that 4 minutes to go, opposing QB's still had a 65.8 rating against us and gained 4 net yards per attempt. Against Buffalo in the same circumstances, passers had a rating of 19.8 and had an adjusted net yardage per attempt of -.8 yards.
You might not agree with him as a head coach and for good reasons, but don't ever try and lump him in with Ray Horton. Horton is over-hyped, to say the least. I'm glad he's gone.
A bit better? 9 more interceptions and 17 more sacks is only a bit better?
Horton's defense didn't even come close to living up to the hype. We barely cracked the top 10 in most major statistical categories, our ranking is based purely off yards per game and that's it.
Opposing quarterbacks had an 82.8 rating against us, completing 60% of their passes. Compare that to Buffalo's 74.9 and 55%, respectively.
Opposing QB's had a red zone passer rating of 108.1 against us, compared to Buffalo's 84.7.
The biggest difference between the two defenses is that the Bills could finish games and we couldn't.
Opposing QB's posted an 82.8 rating and passed for 15 TD's and 9 INT's against us when trailing. Against Buffalo, they had a 64.6 rating, passing for 11 TD's and 12 INT's.
Further, when trailing with less that 4 minutes to go, opposing QB's still had a 65.8 rating against us and gained 4 net yards per attempt. Against Buffalo in the same circumstances, passers had a rating of 19.8 and had an adjusted net yardage per attempt of -.8 yards.
You might not agree with him as a head coach and for good reasons, but don't ever try and lump him in with Ray Horton. Horton is over-hyped, to say the least. I'm glad he's gone.
Yes, I concede, there are aspects that are better, but to me they're all subparts of the final product - Points allowed.
Buff ranked 20th in PA (24.2), while we ranked 23rd (25.4) . . . not an earthshattering difference and definitely around the bottom third of the League.
Yeah, it's great when your Team can shut down an oppenent and dominate them, but if you still end up giving them more points you still lose.
Frankly after watching Horton's vaunted Defense I don't care if we give up 500 yards a game as long as we keep them from scoring.
Fact of the matter is, I actually prefer having a Defensive oriented HC.
If Pettine's our new HC, I will be rooting for him to succeed until/unless he show's me he's not a competent HC.
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If this is true and Pettine is announced today, why not wait another 10 days and talk to Quinn? We've been dicking around this long, what is another week or so? It's not like Pettine was our first choice by any stretch, and I haven't heard his name come up with any other teams. Something tells me he'll be around in 10 days. The Bills were 6-10 last year and ranked 20th in defense. How is this a better hire than just promoting Horton?
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I feel like the Browns are in a lose- lose on all fronts of the HC chaos.
If they kept Chud around and it became evident to the fanbase/media what was apparently evident to them that he was not a coach to lead them to a championship the FO would have been killed for not firing him after the first year (BTW those same browns players who spoke up for Chud were speaking up for Shurmer when he got canned) and we would be having this conversation about the next lose-lose scenario in 2015.
If they hire someone right away, they get killed for not waiting for playoff coordinators because it only makes since to interview the coordinators for the best teams because they are...well...winning.
They hire the popular retread HC or up and coming college coach - they get killed for hiring a retread or hot college coach without NFL experience
They take their time in evaluating all options, bring in people who want to be here and line them up against all choices, let the increased time and attention from media ect to help vet candidates (keep in mind the decision to fire chud was made(reported at least) after the Jacksonville loss), and make an offer to someone they feel can get the job done. This is the way it should work btw - whether he was the initial first choice or not, he is the last man standing at the end of the process- but they get killed for waiting to long, or losing out on the choices of less informed people.
I for one am excited that despite the madness and over reaction from the media/fans that the Browns have actually done something right - came out and said they will go through a process and actually going through that process... read what Jimmy Haslem said during the Chud Firing press conference...
“There’s nothing that, and you all have every right to write it, that galls me more to read on Monday mornings, ‘Same old Browns.’ That’s not what we’re all about and that’s not what we came here for. You have a right to be skeptical and until we turn it around and start winning games, start winning important games, playing meaningful games late in the year and be sitting here this time of year talking about who we’re going to play in the first round of the playoffs, you have every right to be skeptical. But that’s Joe and my job, is to go out and find the person to lead the organization, to coach the team, to give us those kind of results. It’s something we take extremely seriously. We understand there will be skepticism until we get it right, and candidly, we deserve it. I know there’ll be questions about what you’re going to be looking for as a coach and I think you have to be careful. Coaches come in all shapes, form and fashions, but I think real simply, and we spent a lot of time talking about this, we want an individual who is a strong winner who knows how to win football games. We’ll begin our search immediately. I don’t know if it will take a week or a month, the importance is to get it right. There will be all kinds of rumors out there. We understand that. We’re not going to respond to any of them and it’s our intent to bring back the kind of coach I just mentioned to this room sometime over whatever time period. But the important thing is to get it right"
Same old' browns huh? Sounds like we actually have some people in Berea that actually DO get it...
GO BROWNS!
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Horton is over-hyped, to say the least. I'm glad he's gone.
How can you say Horton was over-hyped? Correct me if I'm wrong but was anyone predicting that in one year our new defense would pee all over the 85 bears or the steel curtain from the 70's? Was that what everyone was expecting? I'm sorry but can you please explain how Horton failed after just one year? How can you be glad that we're turning the scheme over.................again
How can you say Horton was over-hyped? Correct me if I'm wrong but was anyone predicting that in one year our new defense would pee all over the 85 bears or the steel curtain from the 70's? Was that what everyone was expecting? I'm sorry but can you please explain how Horton failed after just one year? How can you be glad that we're turning the scheme over.................again
I said on here when we brought Horton on board that I had concerns with him when his D gave up 58 points to Seattle in one game - definitely some Red Flags that panned out it seems.
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If this is true and Pettine is announced today, why not wait another 10 days and talk to Quinn? We've been dicking around this long, what is another week or so? It's not like Pettine was our first choice by any stretch, and I haven't heard his name come up with any other teams. Something tells me he'll be around in 10 days. The Bills were 6-10 last year and ranked 20th in defense. How is this a better hire than just promoting Horton?
If this is true and Pettine is announced today, why not wait another 10 days and talk to Quinn? We've been dicking around this long, what is another week or so? It's not like Pettine was our first choice by any stretch, and I haven't heard his name come up with any other teams. Something tells me he'll be around in 10 days. The Bills were 6-10 last year and ranked 20th in defense. How is this a better hire than just promoting Horton?
Bills were ranked 8th in total D.
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If this is true and Pettine is announced today, why not wait another 10 days and talk to Quinn? We've been dicking around this long, what is another week or so? It's not like Pettine was our first choice by any stretch, and I haven't heard his name come up with any other teams. Something tells me he'll be around in 10 days. The Bills were 6-10 last year and ranked 20th in defense. How is this a better hire than just promoting Horton?
Bills were ranked 8th in total D.
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How can you say Horton was over-hyped? Correct me if I'm wrong but was anyone predicting that in one year our new defense would pee all over the 85 bears or the steel curtain from the 70's? Was that what everyone was expecting? I'm sorry but can you please explain how Horton failed after just one year? How can you be glad that we're turning the scheme over.................again
I said on here when we brought Horton on board that I had concerns with him when his D gave up 58 points to Seattle in one game - definitely some Red Flags that panned out it seems.
I said on here when we brought Horton on board that I had concerns with him when his D gave up 58 points to Seattle in one game - definitely some Red Flags that panned out it seems.
I honestly hadn't heard of him before we brought him onboard. But we did, and our defense outperformed my expectations for a 1st year defense. There were some individual players that I feel didn't play to their contracts and if they had...people would be rioting for letting Horton walk out of Cleveland. Horton deserved a couple years to build a defense.
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Not in Points Allowed - in PA Buff was 20th.
I stumbled upon this website and as a Bills fan, FWIW, I'll give a little insight into this conversation.
Points allowed is not always the best stat to compare squads. I'm not sure where the stat is, but the Bills defense faced the highest number of opposing drives throughout the year in the entire league and allowed the least number of points per drive. Also, ranked 2nd in INTs and either 1st or 2nd in sacks.
We had an anemic offense and an awful special teams that allowed short fields to many teams.
In no way do I want to see Pettine leave the Bills. He re-worked our entire defense and ended up sending 4 players to the pro bowl, as well as a possible DROY (Alonso). Not to mention Leodis McKelvin and Jerry Hughes having the best seasons of their careers in his style. Injuries hampered a lot of the secondary throughout the year but he was still able to get results from his players. He has a very aggressive approach, bringing complicated blitz looks and heavy press-man coverage.
The only dig would be that our run defense did not improve much last year. Not to say that it was his fault, but that would be the only gripe with him.
Bills fans love Pettine and definitely do not way to see him leave.
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If this is true and Pettine is announced today, why not wait another 10 days and talk to Quinn? We've been dicking around this long, what is another week or so? It's not like Pettine was our first choice by any stretch, and I haven't heard his name come up with any other teams. Something tells me he'll be around in 10 days. The Bills were 6-10 last year and ranked 20th in defense. How is this a better hire than just promoting Horton?
Bills were ranked 8th in total D.
Bills were ranked 8th in total D.
Bills fan popping in, we were ranked 10th and gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games blowing multiple 2 score leads. You guys came back and beat us with Weeden even, LOL.
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Not in Points Allowed - in PA Buff was 20th.
Ok?? Thats not total defense. Which was actually 10th, my bad.
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Bills fan popping in, we were ranked 10th and gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games blowing multiple 2 score leads. You guys came back and beat us with Weeden even, LOL.
When did we blow multiple two score leads? You realize offense and special teams are also part of the game as well? Rookie QB (Manuel) goes down for several weeks and having to start two rookie QBs (Tuel and Lewis) with hardly any NFL experience really puts a lot of pressure on your defense...which kept them in several games when the offense did absolutely nothing.
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Not in Points Allowed - in PA Buff was 20th.
I stumbled upon this website and as a Bills fan, FWIW, I'll give a little insight into this conversation.
Points allowed is not always the best stat to compare squads. I'm not sure where the stat is, but the Bills defense faced the highest number of opposing drives throughout the year in the entire league and allowed the least number of points per drive. Also, ranked 2nd in INTs and either 1st or 2nd in sacks.
We had an anemic offense and an awful special teams that allowed short fields to many teams.
In no way do I want to see Pettine leave the Bills. He re-worked our entire defense and ended up sending 4 players to the pro bowl, as well as a possible DROY (Alonso). Not to mention Leodis McKelvin and Jerry Hughes having the best seasons of their careers in his style. Injuries hampered a lot of the secondary throughout the year but he was still able to get results from his players. He has a very aggressive approach, bringing complicated blitz looks and heavy press-man coverage.
The only dig would be that our run defense did not improve much last year. Not to say that it was his fault, but that would be the only gripe with him.
Bills fans love Pettine and definitely do not way to see him leave.
I stumbled upon this website and as a Bills fan, FWIW, I'll give a little insight into this conversation.
Points allowed is not always the best stat to compare squads. I'm not sure where the stat is, but the Bills defense faced the highest number of opposing drives throughout the year in the entire league and allowed the least number of points per drive. Also, ranked 2nd in INTs and either 1st or 2nd in sacks.
We had an anemic offense and an awful special teams that allowed short fields to many teams.
In no way do I want to see Pettine leave the Bills. He re-worked our entire defense and ended up sending 4 players to the pro bowl, as well as a possible DROY (Alonso). Not to mention Leodis McKelvin and Jerry Hughes having the best seasons of their careers in his style. Injuries hampered a lot of the secondary throughout the year but he was still able to get results from his players. He has a very aggressive approach, bringing complicated blitz looks and heavy press-man coverage.
The only dig would be that our run defense did not improve much last year. Not to say that it was his fault, but that would be the only gripe with him.
Bills fans love Pettine and definitely do not way to see him leave.
Reminds me of a Maddenism "If you want to win the game, you have to score more points than the other team." Points allowed are THE most important metric.
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Bills fan popping in, we were ranked 10th and gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games blowing multiple 2 score leads. You guys came back and beat us with Weeden even, LOL.
Well we beat you with special teams and defense IMO. Weeden did have a nice TD bomb that game though.
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I stumbled upon this website and as a Bills fan, FWIW, I'll give a little insight into this conversation.
Points allowed is not always the best stat to compare squads. I'm not sure where the stat is, but the Bills defense faced the highest number of opposing drives throughout the year in the entire league and allowed the least number of points per drive. Also, ranked 2nd in INTs and either 1st or 2nd in sacks.
We had an anemic offense and an awful special teams that allowed short fields to many teams.
In no way do I want to see Pettine leave the Bills. He re-worked our entire defense and ended up sending 4 players to the pro bowl, as well as a possible DROY (Alonso). Not to mention Leodis McKelvin and Jerry Hughes having the best seasons of their careers in his style. Injuries hampered a lot of the secondary throughout the year but he was still able to get results from his players. He has a very aggressive approach, bringing complicated blitz looks and heavy press-man coverage.
The only dig would be that our run defense did not improve much last year. Not to say that it was his fault, but that would be the only gripe with him.
Bills fans love Pettine and definitely do not way to see him leave.
Reminds me of a Maddenism "If you want to win the game, you have to score more points than the other team." Points allowed are THE most important metric.
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Bills fan popping in, we were ranked 10th and gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games blowing multiple 2 score leads. You guys came back and beat us with Weeden even, LOL.
Well we beat you with special teams and defense IMO. Weeden did have a nice TD bomb that game though.
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Then why does the NFL use yards per game as the metric? Just a guess but i think they know better than you.
Which would you choose? A Bills defense that allows 500 yards a game but only gives up 13 points per game OR a Bills defense that allows 200 yards a game but give up 24 points per game.
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Uh oh! Has the age of the "Bend but Don't Break" defense returned to Cleveland?
Lol, yeah, it would be fine if a hypothetical defense gave up 826yds per game and 0 points. The problem is, in reality, it doesn't happen that way. The record for longest FG was just broken this year. Sure, there are teams that are better and worse in the Red Zone and teams that have higher and lower turnover ratios, but, IN GENERAL, if you're giving up yards, you're giving up points.
By the way, if your defense is giving up 200 yards and 24 points per game, you have some nightmarishly bad special teams.
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