Adam Schefter on DA
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schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
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schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
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Mort was on Mike & Mike in the morning and just stated that DA has very good trade value. Teams like Carolina (with Rip Sherer), the Jets (although he discounted this b/c of Mangini) or the Vikings will come calling.
I think we'll be pleasantly surprised. Of course, next think you know he'll go to the Panthers with a strong running game, throw the ball downfield to Smith and be the next league MVP......
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I have been commenting that a 2nd was about what I expected for some time now...and to think about it...a late 1st isn't out of the realm of possibles.
All you have to do is look at QB reality.
There are about 8 teams that need a QB.
There are only 2 QB's that are ranked 1st round quality...and one of those is a 1 yr wonder (Sanchez).
After that, you have very little. Add in that I doubt AZ gets rid of Leinart or Warner...that Young isn't going anywhere...that I highly doubt Phily can dump McNabb after that playoff run (he did put them into the lead...the defense lost that one)....that with chuckie out of TB...they are likely to either keep Garcia or go after DA as well....
Basically, the Browns have a QB who:
1. HAS done it at a high level in the NFL
2. Comes reasonably cheap contract wise
3. Low mileage, but experienced
4. Was the victim (spin) poor rushing game and terrible receiving corp (last year anyway)
5. Has one of the biggest arms in the NFL
Combine all that...and he is a MUCH better prospect than almost all the other QBs available...and a low 1st/high 2nd is definitely a reasonable return for him.
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I have been commenting that a 2nd was about what I expected for some time now...and to think about it...a late 1st isn't out of the realm of possibles.
All you have to do is look at QB reality.
There are about 8 teams that need a QB.
There are only 2 QB's that are ranked 1st round quality...and one of those is a 1 yr wonder (Sanchez).
After that, you have very little. Add in that I doubt AZ gets rid of Leinart or Warner...that Young isn't going anywhere...that I highly doubt Phily can dump McNabb after that playoff run (he did put them into the lead...the defense lost that one)....that with chuckie out of TB...they are likely to either keep Garcia or go after DA as well....
Basically, the Browns have a QB who:
1. HAS done it at a high level in the NFL
2. Comes reasonably cheap contract wise
3. Low mileage, but experienced
4. Was the victim (spin) poor rushing game and terrible receiving corp (last year anyway)
5. Has one of the biggest arms in the NFL
Combine all that...and he is a MUCH better prospect than almost all the other QBs available...and a low 1st/high 2nd is definitely a reasonable return for him.
1. HAS done it at a high level in the NFL
2. Comes reasonably cheap contract wise
3. Low mileage, but experienced
4. Was the victim (spin) poor rushing game and terrible receiving corp (last year anyway)
5. Has one of the biggest arms in the NFL
Wow if only the Browns could get a QB like that for themselves.
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1. HAS done it at a high level in the NFL
2. Comes reasonably cheap contract wise
3. Low mileage, but experienced
4. Was the victim (spin) poor rushing game and terrible receiving corp (last year anyway)
5. Has one of the biggest arms in the NFL
Wow if only the Browns could get a QB like that for themselves.
Wow if only the Browns could get a QB like that for themselves.
I knew you would love that lummy...but I am just showing an OUTSIDERS spin to it. WE, on the other hand, have a bit more info than most...and have WATCHED every pain-staking minute of him.
Still, it is his POTENTIAL UPSIDE that will sell teams on him...not his 8 weeks of pro-bowl performance 2 yrs ago.
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Wow if only the Browns could get a QB like that for themselves.
I knew you would love that lummy...but I am just showing an OUTSIDERS spin to it. WE, on the other hand, have a bit more info than most...and have WATCHED every pain-staking minute of him.
Still, it is his POTENTIAL UPSIDE that will sell teams on him...not his 8 weeks of pro-bowl performance 2 yrs ago.
...but I am just showing an OUTSIDERS spin to it.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
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...but I am just showing an OUTSIDERS spin to it.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
too bad our old posts are gone...you would see I didn't even want to draft Quinn....but alas...no such luck.
However, with that said...I DO think this team has gone past DA. Do I think he may turn into a legit starter? Sure. I really do...I just don't think it will ever happen here...even if he gets another chance. Sometimes a player just needs a change of scenery...and I believe DA needs that change to get back what he had early in '07. And I believe other teams coaches/GMs will see that as well and value him enough to make a good trade for him.
Anyway, I think the BEST for BOTH the Browns and DA is to part ways. It gives them BOTH the best chance for success.
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Another good thing about DA was that his team-mates liked him too. Bad personality baggage is a huge consideration these days, and DA has none.
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DA doesn't seem like a bad guy, but he's got no future in Cleveland and it's not all his fault. If Edwards had caught a few more passes this year we could be singing a totally different tune. Still, he wasn't long for Cleveland anyway since we spent a 1st round pick on a QB and the only other time I can think of a 1st round pick sitting is when the QB who's ahead of him lights the world on fire (Brees in SD) or the 1st rounder is so awful that the journeyman backup gets the nod (Warner over Leinart).
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@shepwrite said:
Where is Ahwatukee?Great post.
Ahwatukee is an urban village in south Phoenix. Technically, it's Phoenix. It's a very affluent neighborhood in South Mountain's foothills. I'm about a half a mile from multi-million dollar homes, although I'm in a $200k 2 bedroom, 2 bath "patio home" surrounded by golf courses.
It borders South Mountain Park, the world's largest metropolitan park.
'wikipedia said:
Ahwatukee (formally "Ahwatukee Foothills Village") is an L-shaped neighborhood of Phoenix, Arizona bordered on the north by South Mountain Park and Baseline Road, on the east by Interstate 10 and the cities of Chandler, Guadalupe, and Tempe, and on the south and west by the Gila River Indian Community. It is the southernmost of the city's 15 urban villages. As of 2000, the 35.8 square-mile (92.7 km²) village has a population of 85,000. [3]Although annexed by the City of Phoenix between 1978 and 1987, before substantial residential growth, many of Ahwatukee's residents do not strongly associate their region with the rest of the city, due in part to its geographic isolation (South Mountain and South Mountain Park separate Ahwatukee from virtually all of the other 14 urban villages of Phoenix, which lie to the north).
Anyways, getting back on topic. Lum's right, we're not gonna pull the wool over anyone's eyes. A Coach and/or GM can only pull the wool over their own eyes, because they desperately want to see something in DA that isn't there.
-Al
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@shepwrite said:
My mom lives somewhere in Scottsdale, in a condo.Scottsdale...another very affluent neighborhood. It's somewhat of a checkerboard, like most of Phoenix's urban villages and suburbs. Phoenix is the ultimate checkerboard community. A drive through most places in Phoenix is like, "Wow, look at these beautiful homes...uhhh, what's with the trailer park?! ...Cool! more beautiful homes...wait, did we just enter a ghetto?" But Scottsdale is not bad, not bad at all really.
No offense, I'm sure your mom is a wonderful lady, but Scottsdale has alot of snooty asses. Try flirting with women in Scottsdale and the first question they'll ask you is, "What's your zip code?" No joke! If you're shallow enough to make it past that first question, the next question is, "What do you drive?" I've stepped in puddles deeper than some of those "chicks."
Here's a "typical" neighborhood in Ahwatukee viewed from South Mountain:
-Al
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...but I am just showing an OUTSIDERS spin to it.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
So Lum, let's say the Browns are totally ready to move DA and let's leave out whether its the right thing to do or not.
I'm curious, what do you think DA will bring in a trade? Most here seem to say 2nd to 4th round.
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schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
Detroit's second and 3rd....would be like 10 Christmas's for me!
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schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
Detroit's second and 3rd....would be like 10 Christmas's for me!
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amazing BQ backers and fans after 3 games and a terrible preseason are "sold" on BQ being our best option. Yes sell off a guy who tossed 29 tds in a season... who is basically the same age with a mch bigger arm for a 3 game sample that was not exactly steller and a piss poor 4 game preseason where he did not throw one legitimate td. REAL SMART. Sounds like something to bet a hundred plus million dollar franchise on when BQ is being paid backup money anyways.... I am glad you guys are thinking about trade potential as if BQ has proved anything. wait you mean the 22qb rating that followed a lower comp rating than even DA had along with a game against Denver where he only threw ONE pass over ten yards against one of the WORST pass defenses in the league.
I have NO problem with BQ starting this year so we can see what we have but to trade away DA based on Draft projection/piss poor preseason and a 3 game sample against poor teams is not exactly sound logic.
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Sev, glad to see you have some new facts to add. You know, the "legitimate" TD's argument.
Explain again why we should "bet" the franchise on the worst rated passer in the NFL and why its illogical to contemplate cashing him in for other areas of need if possible?
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It's not a bad move for CLE to trade DA, if they can also get a vet back up, in case Quinn doesn't work. What did ATL go into last year with behind Ryan.
You talk about DA, but quickly fail to mention what he did over his last 16 starts. 12TD to 10 INT the second 8 games in 2007 and in 8 starts in 2008 9 TDs and 7 INTs (or 21TDs to 15INTs, an average QB rating of 73, and 17 sacks). Not so shiny anymore now is it? You can just as likely get that out of Quinn. That is essentially what CLE got out of Frye over his last 16 starts.
If you want to go apples to apples (or as close as you can), DA first 3 career starts (w/ no injury) had 3TDs and 7 INTs and an average QB rating of 59. Quinn's first 3 career starts (only 1 healthy and pulled in the 3rd) 2 TDs and 2 INTs, and an average QB rating of 50. When talking at the level of play, it's a wash.
Brady had 1 healthy start in a meaningful game. What did he do? Post the highest ever 1st start QB rating for a Browns QB. Not to mention CLE isn't talking about a 6th round draft choice here. He is far more likely to succeed and work out than DA. The history of QBs backs that up. It's playing the odds. CLE needs picks and to move forward. Anyone who has watched DA (including non-Browns fans or ND fans) have seen DA for what he is. He's what a team would want as a solid backup QB in the NFL. CLE sure as heck can't pay him his current contract for that service.
Tons of other threads about CLE and the draft, yet only here do you peak in. Par for the course. BQ backers got nothing on DA backers. They aren't singularly obsessed about one CLE player.
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