Adam Schefter on DA
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DA doesn't seem like a bad guy, but he's got no future in Cleveland and it's not all his fault. If Edwards had caught a few more passes this year we could be singing a totally different tune. Still, he wasn't long for Cleveland anyway since we spent a 1st round pick on a QB and the only other time I can think of a 1st round pick sitting is when the QB who's ahead of him lights the world on fire (Brees in SD) or the 1st rounder is so awful that the journeyman backup gets the nod (Warner over Leinart).
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@shepwrite said:
Where is Ahwatukee?Great post.
Ahwatukee is an urban village in south Phoenix. Technically, it's Phoenix. It's a very affluent neighborhood in South Mountain's foothills. I'm about a half a mile from multi-million dollar homes, although I'm in a $200k 2 bedroom, 2 bath "patio home" surrounded by golf courses.
It borders South Mountain Park, the world's largest metropolitan park.
'wikipedia said:
Ahwatukee (formally "Ahwatukee Foothills Village") is an L-shaped neighborhood of Phoenix, Arizona bordered on the north by South Mountain Park and Baseline Road, on the east by Interstate 10 and the cities of Chandler, Guadalupe, and Tempe, and on the south and west by the Gila River Indian Community. It is the southernmost of the city's 15 urban villages. As of 2000, the 35.8 square-mile (92.7 km²) village has a population of 85,000. [3]Although annexed by the City of Phoenix between 1978 and 1987, before substantial residential growth, many of Ahwatukee's residents do not strongly associate their region with the rest of the city, due in part to its geographic isolation (South Mountain and South Mountain Park separate Ahwatukee from virtually all of the other 14 urban villages of Phoenix, which lie to the north).
Anyways, getting back on topic. Lum's right, we're not gonna pull the wool over anyone's eyes. A Coach and/or GM can only pull the wool over their own eyes, because they desperately want to see something in DA that isn't there.
-Al
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@shepwrite said:
My mom lives somewhere in Scottsdale, in a condo.Scottsdale...another very affluent neighborhood. It's somewhat of a checkerboard, like most of Phoenix's urban villages and suburbs. Phoenix is the ultimate checkerboard community. A drive through most places in Phoenix is like, "Wow, look at these beautiful homes...uhhh, what's with the trailer park?! ...Cool! more beautiful homes...wait, did we just enter a ghetto?" But Scottsdale is not bad, not bad at all really.
No offense, I'm sure your mom is a wonderful lady, but Scottsdale has alot of snooty asses. Try flirting with women in Scottsdale and the first question they'll ask you is, "What's your zip code?" No joke! If you're shallow enough to make it past that first question, the next question is, "What do you drive?" I've stepped in puddles deeper than some of those "chicks."
Here's a "typical" neighborhood in Ahwatukee viewed from South Mountain:
-Al
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...but I am just showing an OUTSIDERS spin to it.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
With easy access to video tapes and a quick glance at the TD pass total thru 2 seasons, there is no need for generalizations or "spin" to put a value on DA. And sadly, the "spin" that any message board Quinn-lover posts about DA won't affect other NFL teams.
As a die hard Quinn honk, the "spin" you should be focusing on is how BQ's Frye-esque performances somehow foretell NFL greatness.
So Lum, let's say the Browns are totally ready to move DA and let's leave out whether its the right thing to do or not.
I'm curious, what do you think DA will bring in a trade? Most here seem to say 2nd to 4th round.
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schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
Detroit's second and 3rd....would be like 10 Christmas's for me!
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schaub is an interesting comparison. before his trade to houston, schaub had never attempted more than 70 passes in a season and had completed more than 52% of them only once, and that was in a year when he threw only 27 passes, making it borderline statistically insignificant.
by comparison, DA has completed 54.6% of his passes with a YPA of 6.7 and 43 TDs vs. 35 INTs in his career.
before being traded to houston, schaub had thrown 9 TDs and 9 picks in his career. he'd completed just over 50% of his passes (81 of 161) and had a career average of 6.3 YPA.
overall, their numbers are similar except that DA is two years younger than schaub, has, for his age, more experience than schaub did, has a better TD-INT ratio and has a much larger sample size.
it gives me a lot of hope that DA will bring more in a trade than we previously thought, though i don't want to get my hopes up too high. however, schaub brought two second-round picks and let the falcons move up two spots in the first.
having more experience, in this case, might not be a good thing. the upside to schaub was that he was unknown and had progressed every time he played. with DA a somewhat stagnant player, teams may be less inclined to give up higher picks for him. there's no way we're getting multiple picks for him unless there's a sentiment around the league that he got a raw deal in 2008. this could be a time that the browns' dysfunctionality could work for the new regime.
Detroit's second and 3rd....would be like 10 Christmas's for me!
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amazing BQ backers and fans after 3 games and a terrible preseason are "sold" on BQ being our best option. Yes sell off a guy who tossed 29 tds in a season... who is basically the same age with a mch bigger arm for a 3 game sample that was not exactly steller and a piss poor 4 game preseason where he did not throw one legitimate td. REAL SMART. Sounds like something to bet a hundred plus million dollar franchise on when BQ is being paid backup money anyways.... I am glad you guys are thinking about trade potential as if BQ has proved anything. wait you mean the 22qb rating that followed a lower comp rating than even DA had along with a game against Denver where he only threw ONE pass over ten yards against one of the WORST pass defenses in the league.
I have NO problem with BQ starting this year so we can see what we have but to trade away DA based on Draft projection/piss poor preseason and a 3 game sample against poor teams is not exactly sound logic.
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Sev, glad to see you have some new facts to add. You know, the "legitimate" TD's argument.
Explain again why we should "bet" the franchise on the worst rated passer in the NFL and why its illogical to contemplate cashing him in for other areas of need if possible?
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It's not a bad move for CLE to trade DA, if they can also get a vet back up, in case Quinn doesn't work. What did ATL go into last year with behind Ryan.
You talk about DA, but quickly fail to mention what he did over his last 16 starts. 12TD to 10 INT the second 8 games in 2007 and in 8 starts in 2008 9 TDs and 7 INTs (or 21TDs to 15INTs, an average QB rating of 73, and 17 sacks). Not so shiny anymore now is it? You can just as likely get that out of Quinn. That is essentially what CLE got out of Frye over his last 16 starts.
If you want to go apples to apples (or as close as you can), DA first 3 career starts (w/ no injury) had 3TDs and 7 INTs and an average QB rating of 59. Quinn's first 3 career starts (only 1 healthy and pulled in the 3rd) 2 TDs and 2 INTs, and an average QB rating of 50. When talking at the level of play, it's a wash.
Brady had 1 healthy start in a meaningful game. What did he do? Post the highest ever 1st start QB rating for a Browns QB. Not to mention CLE isn't talking about a 6th round draft choice here. He is far more likely to succeed and work out than DA. The history of QBs backs that up. It's playing the odds. CLE needs picks and to move forward. Anyone who has watched DA (including non-Browns fans or ND fans) have seen DA for what he is. He's what a team would want as a solid backup QB in the NFL. CLE sure as heck can't pay him his current contract for that service.
Tons of other threads about CLE and the draft, yet only here do you peak in. Par for the course. BQ backers got nothing on DA backers. They aren't singularly obsessed about one CLE player.
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And yeah, the 2 TDs in his one actual healthy game out of 3 real starts weren't legit
Preseason? You're talking about preseason? When backing DA? Come on now. You don't even want to go to DA's preseason showings in the past.
I am sure you will pull the dropping balls and no Stallworth excuse for DA this year. Well, if you gonna do that, then you got to afford Quinn the same excuse for preseason. Seeing as how he was w/o Edwards and mainly still played with B team on O at the skill positions.
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The only problem I see with the trade to Detroit, other than proper compensation, is the Scott Mitchell factor. Detroits fans understand what I mean. Maybe there front office has forgotten....fingers crossed.
The only problem I see with the trade to Detroit, other than proper compensation, is the Scott Mitchell factor. Detroits fans understand what I mean. Maybe there front office has forgotten....fingers crossed.
Let's hope. Funny thing is, there are a lot of similarities between Scott Mitchell and DA.
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The only problem I see with the trade to Detroit, other than proper compensation, is the Scott Mitchell factor. Detroits fans understand what I mean. Maybe there front office has forgotten....fingers crossed.
The only problem I see with the trade to Detroit, other than proper compensation, is the Scott Mitchell factor. Detroits fans understand what I mean. Maybe there front office has forgotten....fingers crossed.
You are right. I don't see a chance of DA going to Detroit. They already have a stable of average backup type QBs. They are looking for a franchise QB and IMO they will take one with the first choice in the draft.
I wish Gruden was still at Tampa Bay. He never saw a QB he didn't like. That being said, Lions TB, Minn, San Fran and the Jets need to come away from the draft with a QB.
Personally, I think we open the season with DA as a backup to Quinn because he is goning to cost us too much to get rid of.
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The best defensive response of changing the focus of my argument that BQ has not shown anything in enough sample games is to pick on any particular percieved weaknesses with DA.
So let me get this straight a hundred million dollar plus franchise that is without any real quality backup bets everything on a high draft pick that did not perform well in preseason and really not well in the THREE games against shoddy defenses. So we dont have any backup position as the season tanked totally once DA was benched and both BQ and DA were out..... No backups worth anything and a kid who has played 3 games in the most difficult position to fill in the game. Trade a guy who can at least step in IF BQ fails for more PROSPECTIVE talent.
That makes perfect sense. I suppose you can try to make the money argument of why we should trade DA.... Only that is a failed line of logic because BQ held out and shot himself in the foot and is paid backup money and we have to pay DA regardless.
No backups and a 3 game sample against terrible defenses, no financial reasons really so yes we should trade a qb who did has thrown over 40 tds in 1.5 seasons... qbs like that grow on trees evidently. Makes perfect sense.
You guys are right bet the farm and our backup on a 3 game sample when contracts and money dont even put any pressure next year anyways at the qb position. that sounds like reasonable logic to me.
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OSU, can you say "shipping Charlie Frye out of town for DA"? Same case. Everything you said at the begining of you post could have been said about CLE turning over the reigns to DA after week 1 in the 2007 season. Except if CLE gets rid of DA before training camp, there are plenty of back up QBs that will be available, who have experience and get you similar production to what DA really has shown to give.
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wait a minute masters you are saying their are PLENTY of back up qbs who can throw 20+ tds a year? really? STARTERs dont always do that.... plenty of backups? wow. you and I must see completely differently than what is available on the open market either thru trade or free agency. Franchises who pay out blackmail 1st round draft pick crazy money on the hope and dream that it MIGHT pan out must just be doing that because they like to ignore the bunches of backups who toss that many tds a year....
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wait a minute masters you are saying their are PLENTY of back up qbs who can throw 20+ tds a year? really? STARTERs dont always do that.... plenty of backups? wow. you and I must see completely differently than what is available on the open market either thru trade or free agency. Franchises who pay out blackmail 1st round draft pick crazy money on the hope and dream that it MIGHT pan out must just be doing that because they like to ignore the bunches of backups who toss that many tds a year....
wait a minute masters you are saying their are PLENTY of back up qbs who can throw 20+ tds a year? really? STARTERs dont always do that.... plenty of backups? wow. you and I must see completely differently than what is available on the open market either thru trade or free agency. Franchises who pay out blackmail 1st round draft pick crazy money on the hope and dream that it MIGHT pan out must just be doing that because they like to ignore the bunches of backups who toss that many tds a year....
DA has done that ONCE (with most coming in his first 8 starts of that season before teams started playing 3 deep on him)! I am talking the over all consistancy and play you actually get out of DA over the course of his 20+ career starts. Jeff Garcia once threw for 32 and 31 TDs in a season.
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