Pettine a Mistake for Browns
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Pro-football focus had the Bills as the 4th best Defense in the NFL, 6 players in the top 10 at position...the Bill's D "fluff" statistical troubles had more to do with a lack of production from their offense than scheme/play calling. Looking at the statistics that win/lose games 3rd down conversion allowed, turnovers created and points given up in the red zone - the Bills D went from the bottom of the NFL in 2012 and in the top 10 in each of those categories in one year under Pettine.
I think this is a great pickup for the Browns.
Pro-football focus had the Bills as the 4th best Defense in the NFL, 6 players in the top 10 at position...the Bill's D "fluff" statistical troubles had more to do with a lack of production from their offense than scheme/play calling. Looking at the statistics that win/lose games 3rd down conversion allowed, turnovers created and points given up in the red zone - the Bills D went from the bottom of the NFL in 2012 and in the top 10 in each of those categories in one year under Pettine.
I think this is a great pickup for the Browns.
Where they ranked in points allowed is not a fluff statistic. They were also awful against the run. In both of those categories they were bottom quarter of the league.
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He coached the lowly Bills.... hard to get an accurate read off the guy. If there was any bright spot from the Bills 2013 season, it was their D.
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No, I'm not a Browns fan. I'm a Bills fan and obviously our franchise is, how do I put this gently, equivalent in some rather unflattering ways. In other words: you suck, we suck and anybody who thinks otherwise is a Kool-Aid guzzling homer.
I like Mike Pettine and the job he did in Buffalo for ONE SEASON. No, the Bills did not have a dominant defense but there was substantial improvement in the pass rush and (as a result) creating turnovers in the secondary. That said: CLEVELAND FINISHED AHEAD OF BUFFALO IN TOTAL DEFENSE. Personally I would rather have Ray Horton than Mike Pettine. The big problem I had with Pettine's defense is that it has a severe "boom or bust" quality. Either we gave up a long TD or we sacked the QB or forced a turnover. It certainly isn't boring but we have 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman up front and stole Indy's first round pick (Jerry Hughes) from a few years ago. We have guys who can run the aggressive scheme Pettine learned from Rex Ryan.
A couple of concerns I would have as a Browns fan, and I'm not so take it for what it's worth:
The Bills defense gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games, they dominated one game the entire season against Miami at home in December. They also beat up Geno Smith at home but still gave up 14 points. Scoring defense is a problem and the Bills were improved under Pettine but not tremendously. I think we ended up a mediocre 20th in scoring defense. Tough to win when you give up 20 points every single game.
The Pettine resume is paper thin. Pettine came to Buffalo from the Jets and it was not a lateral move, it was a promotion. Being the DC in New York under Rex Ryan is like being the QB's Coach for Peyton Manning. It's a title but that's about it. I have the same criticism of our own Head Coach who was the OC under Sean Payton in New Orleans, you might hold the call sheet but you don't have much much influence over what's on it or what gets called. Pettine came to Buffalo to prove himself and he made strides in that area but at this point last year I wasn't sure if he could even handle the DC job with us. He was a bit of a question mark and while he obviously can bring the heat I hope stopping the run isn't important in your division. Buffalo could not stop the run under Pettine and made little, if any, improvement at all.
In general, losing Pettine will hurt Buffalo a little but it won't help Cleveland as much as it maybe hurts Buffalo. I have no feel for what Pettine will be as a head coach since he was barely one year into his role as a defensive coordinator. I suspect he will struggle and both the Bills and Browns will be looking for a new Head Coach as early as next January. Unfortunately, leadership comes from the top and both the Bills and Browns have horrible ownership.
No, I'm not a Browns fan. I'm a Bills fan and obviously our franchise is, how do I put this gently, equivalent in some rather unflattering ways. In other words: you suck, we suck and anybody who thinks otherwise is a Kool-Aid guzzling homer.
I like Mike Pettine and the job he did in Buffalo for ONE SEASON. No, the Bills did not have a dominant defense but there was substantial improvement in the pass rush and (as a result) creating turnovers in the secondary. That said: CLEVELAND FINISHED AHEAD OF BUFFALO IN TOTAL DEFENSE. Personally I would rather have Ray Horton than Mike Pettine. The big problem I had with Pettine's defense is that it has a severe "boom or bust" quality. Either we gave up a long TD or we sacked the QB or forced a turnover. It certainly isn't boring but we have 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman up front and stole Indy's first round pick (Jerry Hughes) from a few years ago. We have guys who can run the aggressive scheme Pettine learned from Rex Ryan.
A couple of concerns I would have as a Browns fan, and I'm not so take it for what it's worth:
The Bills defense gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games, they dominated one game the entire season against Miami at home in December. They also beat up Geno Smith at home but still gave up 14 points. Scoring defense is a problem and the Bills were improved under Pettine but not tremendously. I think we ended up a mediocre 20th in scoring defense. Tough to win when you give up 20 points every single game.
The Pettine resume is paper thin. Pettine came to Buffalo from the Jets and it was not a lateral move, it was a promotion. Being the DC in New York under Rex Ryan is like being the QB's Coach for Peyton Manning. It's a title but that's about it. I have the same criticism of our own Head Coach who was the OC under Sean Payton in New Orleans, you might hold the call sheet but you don't have much much influence over what's on it or what gets called. Pettine came to Buffalo to prove himself and he made strides in that area but at this point last year I wasn't sure if he could even handle the DC job with us. He was a bit of a question mark and while he obviously can bring the heat I hope stopping the run isn't important in your division. Buffalo could not stop the run under Pettine and made little, if any, improvement at all.
In general, losing Pettine will hurt Buffalo a little but it won't help Cleveland as much as it maybe hurts Buffalo. I have no feel for what Pettine will be as a head coach since he was barely one year into his role as a defensive coordinator. I suspect he will struggle and both the Bills and Browns will be looking for a new Head Coach as early as next January. Unfortunately, leadership comes from the top and both the Bills and Browns have horrible ownership.
I think this guy is trying to convince himself more then Browns fans.
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Pro-football focus had the Bills as the 4th best Defense in the NFL, 6 players in the top 10 at position...the Bill's D "fluff" statistical troubles had more to do with a lack of production from their offense than scheme/play calling. Looking at the statistics that win/lose games 3rd down conversion allowed, turnovers created and points given up in the red zone - the Bills D went from the bottom of the NFL in 2012 and in the top 10 in each of those categories in one year under Pettine.
I think this is a great pickup for the Browns.
Where they ranked in points allowed is not a fluff statistic. They were also awful against the run. In both of those categories they were bottom quarter of the league.
Where they ranked in points allowed is not a fluff statistic. They were also awful against the run. In both of those categories they were bottom quarter of the league.
20th in points allowed, not great but not a strong indicator of win/loss - 4 of the teams ranked below had a 8-8 or better record, but concede it's not fluff either, but an overvalued stat...they were awful against the run but again not a great indicator of win/loss (Arizona, Jets, Detroit and St Louis all in the top 10) either.
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I'm a Bills fan and most of us are very upset by losing Pettine. The points scored statistic ignores how many times the offense turned the ball over in the red zone (inside our own 20), and how much trouble it had sustaining drives. The inability to stop the run is legitimate, but the problem was primarily the occassional big run rather than teams marching down the field all day. I think the Browns defensive personnel will be a good fit for Pettine and I expect you'll make the playoffs in the next two years.
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Hey, I like whoever lives in Rob's house.
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It will be interesting to see how much he likes the players here, if he does some house cleaning or not. Specifically the LB'ers.
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Let's not forget that Pettine's Jets were also a top 10 defense every year he was there as a coach. Really my only concern now is how they will handle the offensive side of the ball and if he'll be able to get a good OC, and if that OC will be able to make the most out of our investments in the draft.
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If you cant see the difference between Marrone and the rest of the HCs the Bills have had since Levy, youre not watching. Only way Marrone gets canned next year is a horrendous regression.
Like he had in his third year at SU? Marrone has much to prove himself.
Anyway, I do like Pettine but I don't see him as a head coach in the NFL right now. I'm more sold on him than Marrone but his defense did give up way too many points and it could turn out to be a blessing that he leaves.
Like he had in his third year at SU? Marrone has much to prove himself.
Anyway, I do like Pettine but I don't see him as a head coach in the NFL right now. I'm more sold on him than Marrone but his defense did give up way too many points and it could turn out to be a blessing that he leaves.
Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in Pts. Against. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in sacks. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in interceptions. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB rating. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB completion percentage. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in defensive redzone efficiency. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in tackles. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in everything...except yards per game, where they gave up a mere one more yard per game...which puts them one place behind Cleveland in total defense.
Total defense is a bullshit statistic.
The '"boom or bust" defense you talk about Buffalo having...it was worse in Cleveland. Cleveland was in the top ten in 3-and-out drives, and also the bottom five in drives resulting in a touchdown.
We either gave up a TD or made the other team punt immediately.
Pettine is, I believe, a very solid and underrated hire. How he handles the head coaching position remains to be seen, but he's surely earned a chance based on his resume.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Amen, sister!
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I'm a Bills fan and most of us are very upset by losing Pettine. The points scored statistic ignores how many times the offense turned the ball over in the red zone (inside our own 20), and how much trouble it had sustaining drives. The inability to stop the run is legitimate, but the problem was primarily the occassional big run rather than teams marching down the field all day. I think the Browns defensive personnel will be a good fit for Pettine and I expect you'll make the playoffs in the next two years.
I'm a Bills fan and most of us are very upset by losing Pettine. The points scored statistic ignores how many times the offense turned the ball over in the red zone (inside our own 20), and how much trouble it had sustaining drives. The inability to stop the run is legitimate, but the problem was primarily the occassional big run rather than teams marching down the field all day. I think the Browns defensive personnel will be a good fit for Pettine and I expect you'll make the playoffs in the next two years.
Playoffs?...lol...a win streak would be nice,at first.
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Like he had in his third year at SU? Marrone has much to prove himself.
Anyway, I do like Pettine but I don't see him as a head coach in the NFL right now. I'm more sold on him than Marrone but his defense did give up way too many points and it could turn out to be a blessing that he leaves.
Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in Pts. Against. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in sacks. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in interceptions. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB rating. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB completion percentage. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in defensive redzone efficiency. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in tackles. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in everything...except yards per game, where they gave up a mere one more yard per game...which puts them one place behind Cleveland in total defense.
Total defense is a bullshit statistic.
The '"boom or bust" defense you talk about Buffalo having...it was worse in Cleveland. Cleveland was in the top ten in 3-and-out drives, and also the bottom five in drives resulting in a touchdown.
We either gave up a TD or made the other team punt immediately.
Pettine is, I believe, a very solid and underrated hire. How he handles the head coaching position remains to be seen, but he's surely earned a chance based on his resume.
Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in Pts. Against. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in sacks. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in interceptions. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB rating. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB completion percentage. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in defensive redzone efficiency. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in tackles. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in everything...except yards per game, where they gave up a mere one more yard per game...which puts them one place behind Cleveland in total defense.
Total defense is a bullshit statistic.
The '"boom or bust" defense you talk about Buffalo having...it was worse in Cleveland. Cleveland was in the top ten in 3-and-out drives, and also the bottom five in drives resulting in a touchdown.
We either gave up a TD or made the other team punt immediately.
Pettine is, I believe, a very solid and underrated hire. How he handles the head coaching position remains to be seen, but he's surely earned a chance based on his resume.
Agreed, the only defensive statistic that matters is points allowed and how it compares to points scored. I also agree that Pettine is a solid hire, and an underrated one. I think what I like the most about him is he seems like a guy who will bring some toughness to this team that it seems to lack. I wonder how he would have handled Jason Campbell's comments about the team having a hangover from the New England loss?
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I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.
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I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.
I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.
Secondary yes, our linebackers I'm not so sure about.
The d-line played well when healthy with Taylor/Bryant/Hughes/winn/bryant.
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I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii.
Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?
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I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii.
Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?
I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii. Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?
hey, i'm one with no disrespect towards a bill's fan. they are truly the only team that plays in NY. i loved them back in the day, i still like them a lot now. i have a neighbor who lives on the 2nd floor of my building who is a diehard bills fan who told me over a plate of mashed potatoes and gravy how he thought weeden would be great for the browns and also TR.
well we all know all that turned out but i told him that i thought emmanuel would be the guy and i still think that.
i loved jauron as our DC. i loved him as your HC. everybody writes him off off as a nobody.
our two teams have a lot in common. blue collar fans. cold weather on the lake. if the nfl was smart they'd throw buffallo in our division afcn, and put balitwhore in the afc east.
i like the buffalo way of life. reminds me of my childhood on lake erie.
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I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.
I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though.
It is. So it's even more amazing that he outperformed us with essentially only one linebacker.
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I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii.
Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?
Assuming a personnel shift to the 3-4:I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii. Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?
Mingo, Sheard and Kruger would all start at OLB for Buffalo.
Rubin would be a heavy rotational player on the interior, he's best suited as a 2 gap lineman.
Haden would start over any corner you have, Gilmore included.
Ward would start over Jim Leonhard.
Conversely:
Byrd would start over Gipson.
Gilmore would start over Skrine, easily.
M. Williams would be a rotational OLB, as he didn't prove to transition well in 2011 in Houston before his injury.
K. Williams and Dareus would be solid DE's.
Kiko Alonso would start over any ILB on our roster, Jackson included.
It more or less is a wash. You have great players at positions of need for us, we have great players at positions of need for you. Not to discredit the Bills defense, because they're loaded with talent...but so are we.
On offense, there's no comparison. We have Gordon, Thomas, Mack and Cameron. You have literally everything else. Any one of you wideouts would start opposite Gordon. Any RB you have would start for us. Any guard you have would start for us. Your practice squad QB could start for us.
I, for one, love Jeff Tuel.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I don't know much about Pettine, but one thing he said resonated with me. He claimed that he's always believed that one should fit the system to the players as opposed to fitting the players to the system. I have no idea how this will all shake out, but I'm still optimistic for the future our long-suffering franchise.
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