"It's a passing league"
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I started this topic (just for those who don't want to look back through the pages) and, at the time, I didn't intend it to be a debate about whether or not the Browns should take a QB in the first round or at #4 or whatever. For the record, I think the Browns definitely need to take a QB in the draft, and I wouldn't be opposed to them taking Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles (wherever they can get each respectively) in the first. I think people mistook me saying that there were teams who weren't dedicated ONLY to passing who were still having success in the NFL for me saying that the Browns should not attempt to draft a good QB if possible.
Oh wait, I AM against trading up from #4, though, if it costs the Browns any other than like a zillionth round pick. That's just insanity.
Oh wait, I AM against trading up from #4, though, if it costs the Browns any other than like a zillionth round pick. That's just insanity.
No, i don't think we went off the topic with discussing the QB situation. We are talking about the position that will 'pass' the ball.
We must be insane to trade up to grab Manziel…then again, it's the Browns we are talking about.
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i can't wait until the browns FO office does the unthinkable (like their plan to 'get it right' with their HC position) and does a dan snyder move to get manziel.
man it's hard to ponder. if he wows us and he can stay away from injury for the first year (cuz they have to play him NOW cuz they traded four of our picks) i'll be ecstatic.
BUT when the dude get's planted like a long rooted palm tree from florida and his career is over........
lord help you all.
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i can't wait until the browns FO office does the unthinkable (like their plan to 'get it right' with their HC position) and does a dan snyder move to get manziel.
man it's hard to ponder. if he wows us and he can stay away from injury for the first year (cuz they have to play him NOW cuz they traded four of our picks) i'll be ecstatic.
BUT when the dude get's planted like a long rooted palm tree from florida and his career is over........
lord help you all.
i can't wait until the browns FO office does the unthinkable (like their plan to 'get it right' with their HC position) and does a dan snyder move to get manziel.
man it's hard to ponder. if he wows us and he can stay away from injury for the first year (cuz they have to play him NOW cuz they traded four of our picks) i'll be ecstatic.
BUT when the dude get's planted like a long rooted palm tree from florida and his career is over........
lord help you all.
You mean Lord help us all, every Browns fan on the planet. The only upside is it will get Lobotomy fired for sure.
Ice Dawg19 said:
Draft Manziel and the Browns will regret it. Texas, spoiled ass rich kid, will be in an entire different world in blue collar, cold ass Cleveland. He also doesn't fit the personality of Pettine's mental toughness.
Personally, I think Bortels should be the pick. He is the anti-Weeden. He constantly made throws with defenders in his face unlike Weeden, and he has leadership qualities. Watkins would be next in line. Guys who are dedicated and have maturity. When it comes to maturity Manziel has none.
Let's just hope one of the stipulations Pettine had on agreeing to coach here is he has significant input in the draft. Because no way he's going to want pussy poster boy as the face of the Browns. And if Haslam drafts him anyway- to bolster ticket sales (which would be marginal at best IMHO) he should quit on the spot.
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if he's coming in as a puppet on a string just to bolster his resume, then he should make the best of it and show everybody what is happening inside and out and what control he does and doesn't have.
that way when they (rat bastard banner and the big loaf lomardi) pick against his wishes and everything falls apart, he will not be penalized in his search for future employment.
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I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up.
The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL.
The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out.
I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why?
Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards??
No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing.
I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben...
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I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up.
The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL.
The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out.
I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why?
Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards??
No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing.
I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben...
I think your way off base on Manziel. Not only is Manziel the best athlete out of all the QBs, but he may be the best thrower also. This article has the best explanation that someone posted in another thread. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrumI 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up.
The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL.
The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out.
I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why?
Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards??
No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing.
I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben...
If youre going to compare him to Wilson, you have to do it from Wilson coming out of Wisconsin. Wilson was good but he was never great in college. Manziel has been spectacular in a tougher conference. Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns. Id bet on him staying healthy enough, and keeping his nose clean before Id bet on fixing any of these other QBs flaws.
I dont even want to get into the whole judging a player from highlights thing....
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I think your way off base on Manziel. Not only is Manziel the best athlete out of all the QBs, but he may be the best thrower also. This article has the best explanation that someone posted in another thread. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrumI 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up.
The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL.
The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out.
I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why?
Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards??
No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing.
I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben...
If youre going to compare him to Wilson, you have to do it from Wilson coming out of Wisconsin. Wilson was good but he was never great in college. Manziel has been spectacular in a tougher conference. Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns. Id bet on him staying healthy enough, and keeping his nose clean before Id bet on fixing any of these other QBs flaws.
I dont even want to get into the whole judging a player from highlights thing....
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns.Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns.Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
I can tell youve never seen Texas A&M play...Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
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I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up.
The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL.
The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out.
I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why?
Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards??
No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing.
I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben...
I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up.
The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL.
The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out.
I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why?
Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards??
No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing.
I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben...
Well a lot of his most impressive highlights are when he's out of the pocket. Might be what you're seeing.
My personal top QBs are Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr. Not a huge Bortles fan.
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I can tell youve never seen Texas A&M play...Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I can tell youve never seen Texas A&M play...
I've watched a number of their games.
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This article is pretty much what all the Manziel folks want to see...
But it's EXACTLY what will not work in the NFL.
The first GIF was a good example. There was NO ONE near him. He didn't need to dance around, in the NFL he will NOT have that much time.
The 2nd Gif the writer wanted us to see. He took off but his head never looked beyond the first read. Number 38 on the defense did not attack him. I'm pretty sure he would had easily gotten caught on that run at the pro-level.
Again, everything is about running around and 'improvising', you can improvise when you take snap behind one of the BEST Offensive lines in college. In the NFL you have best 3 seconds....
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Ice Dawg19 said:
A lot will depend on the offensive system the Browns implement. What no one is talking about is Manziels' ability to handle losing, and cold weather. And I can't stand his "show me the money" bullshit he does. He'll bolt Cleveland after his contract is up and head for warmer, richer pastures.
It's been proven that teams in the North need a power running game. These systems require strong armed quarterbacks with some mobility. While Manziels ability may fit the wind and the cold he's gonna alienate fans and players if he doesn't grow up fast.
Andy Dalton would beg to differ.
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Hahahaha, it wasn't supposed to be.
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I know right... popping up everywhere except the cheerleader thread...
I am still a Watkins man because I do not see a QB worth the #4... that some others do is fine. But some are elevating a prospect to #4 overall based upon nothing but need.... and that is a totally irrational recipe for epic failure.
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I still want Watkins. I'd be cool with Mettenberger/Murray in a later round to develop behind Hoyer.
Only thing about Watkins is this is slated to be a deep WR draft, but I don't think anyone is on Watkins level.
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No one doesn't support "getting a good QB". And if someone could be 100% that's what they'd get by moving up, that would be fine. Do professional scouts and management teams know better than you and I who might and might not be "a good QB"? Sure. But do they know? Nope. If they knew, there wouldn't be stories like Tim Couch and Ryan Leaf. This isn't about RG3's busted knee. This is about the fact that a high draft pick is not a guaranteed winner just because a professional scout or management team thinks that person should be picked high.
And actually, that wasn't what this thread was about at all.
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