"It's a passing league"
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Hahahaha, it wasn't supposed to be.
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I know right... popping up everywhere except the cheerleader thread...
I am still a Watkins man because I do not see a QB worth the #4... that some others do is fine. But some are elevating a prospect to #4 overall based upon nothing but need.... and that is a totally irrational recipe for epic failure.
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I still want Watkins. I'd be cool with Mettenberger/Murray in a later round to develop behind Hoyer.
Only thing about Watkins is this is slated to be a deep WR draft, but I don't think anyone is on Watkins level.
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No one doesn't support "getting a good QB". And if someone could be 100% that's what they'd get by moving up, that would be fine. Do professional scouts and management teams know better than you and I who might and might not be "a good QB"? Sure. But do they know? Nope. If they knew, there wouldn't be stories like Tim Couch and Ryan Leaf. This isn't about RG3's busted knee. This is about the fact that a high draft pick is not a guaranteed winner just because a professional scout or management team thinks that person should be picked high.
And actually, that wasn't what this thread was about at all.
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@mike-h said:
All you assholes were sucking RG3's dick, wanting to move up to draft him. He hurt his knee and now moving up is taboo.
I support getting a good QB, not being a hypocrite.
No one here has the talent to say whether there's a QB "worth trading for" in this class. There is two QB needy teams ahead of the Browns. If they trade up to take the guy their professional scouts and management team decided on, you bend over and put some lipstick on.
If this is going to be the narrative for the next few months, I'm done reading this shit.
Thank you.
You take the guy you deem to be the best. If it requires a trade up, so be it. Hopefully it doesn't.
I was anti-Manziel for the longest time, but I can see the appeal and if our FO deems him to be the best QB available, then I'm okay with it.
This place is becoming a fucking joke. I literally skip past everyone's replies unless they're hoorta, spectral, Mik, tour, or yours.
More than half of this shit is just people screaming about stupid stuff that is, for the most part, immaterial. Oh, Manziel isn't as tall or as thick as you'd want? Oh, he's kind of a cocky dick off the field? Oh, you're worried about how he'll make the adjustment to the pro game?
Guess what, if Manziel were taller, thicker and a saint off the field...he'd be the number one overall pick. Every quarterback has inherent risks, if you sit around and wait for the perfect prospect, you'll be waiting forever.
You take the guy that has the most manageable flaws and the highest potential. But, more importantly, you take the guy you think is the best.
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Where did you read that it wasn't?
I didn't which is why I didn't comment either way. If someone knows it to be true or read it somewhere I would like to know. Your credentials are solid. I would acknowledge you are more plugged into the technical side of football than myself. So tell me TCPO
1) How do you compare Manziel to Hoyer
2) Do you believe Manziel is a better pick than Bortles?
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@mike-h said:
All you assholes were sucking RG3's dick, wanting to move up to draft him. He hurt his knee and now moving up is taboo.
I support getting a good QB, not being a hypocrite.
No one here has the talent to say whether there's a QB "worth trading for" in this class. There is two QB needy teams ahead of the Browns. If they trade up to take the guy their professional scouts and management team decided on, you bend over and put some lipstick on.
If this is going to be the narrative for the next few months, I'm done reading this shit.
this asshole was not sucking anybody's dick. i think i was claiborne or blackmon that year. forget which one. but definitely not RG3. now they look like bafoons. so you want us to look like that?
man you are close to turning into PoG with your QB man crush thing going on. hey now that we got a defensive guy as a head coach what if they take clowney if he's still there? oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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Lol at all the self proclaimed football geniuses... its like the end of the world when someone disagees with them. Its a fans forum or am i wrong? Start your own and weed out the regular fans with Retarded questions that only geniuses would know and then you guys can sit and stroke each others egos allday.
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Where did you read that it wasn't?
I didn't which is why I didn't comment either way. If someone knows it to be true or read it somewhere I would like to know. Your credentials are solid. I would acknowledge you are more plugged into the technical side of football than myself. So tell me TCPO
1) How do you compare Manziel to Hoyer
2) Do you believe Manziel is a better pick than Bortles?
I didn't which is why I didn't comment either way. If someone knows it to be true or read it somewhere I would like to know. Your credentials are solid. I would acknowledge you are more plugged into the technical side of football than myself. So tell me TCPO
1) How do you compare Manziel to Hoyer
2) Do you believe Manziel is a better pick than Bortles?
I think Manziel and Hoyer are similar in stature, Hoyer is an inch to an inch and a half taller, and 8-10 pounds heavier. They're comparable in size and stature. I would expect Manziel's playing height to be between 6'0 and 6'1 and his playing weight to be between 210 and 215.
I haven't fully analyzed enough tape on Manziel to make a judgment but from what I've seen so far, he has slightly above average arm talent and has the ability to push the ball down the field. His mechanics and footwork aren't ideal. Basically, he just plays backyard football. He's not technically proficient, he's not a student of the game, he's not a football genius, but he has tremendous instincts, amazing mobility, and an NFL caliber arm.
I honestly can't pick between Bortles and Manziel. I've been on the Bortles bandwagon since the beginning of the year and have the posts here to prove it, but Manziel and Bortles are two startlingly different quarterbacks. Without an OC, it's hard to determine who would be the best quarterback for us. In a McDaniels/Belichick style of the Erhardt-Perkins spread offense, I would rather have Manziel. In an Bruce Arians style, motion-heavy spread attack, I would rather have Bortles.
It just depends on who we hire.
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Lol at all the self proclaimed football geniuses... its like the end of the world when someone disagees with them. Its a fans forum or am i wrong? Start your own and weed out the regular fans with Retarded questions that only geniuses would know and then you guys can sit and stroke each others egos allday.
Lol at all the self proclaimed football geniuses... its like the end of the world when someone disagees with them. Its a fans forum or am i wrong? Start your own and weed out the regular fans with Retarded questions that only geniuses would know and then you guys can sit and stroke each others egos allday.
"Lol" at the idiots who are butthurt because their opinions are shit and their reputations even shittier.
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Lol at all the self proclaimed football geniuses... its like the end of the world when someone disagees with them. Its a fans forum or am i wrong? Start your own and weed out the regular fans with Retarded questions that only geniuses would know and then you guys can sit and stroke each others egos allday.
"Lol" at the idiots who are butthurt because their opinions are shit and their reputations even shittier.
"Lol" at the idiots who are butthurt because their opinions are shit and their reputations even shittier.
We can't all have a blog with 9 followers...
reputation lol on the internet even
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Add me to the list of replies you skip please.
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"Lol" at the idiots who are butthurt because their opinions are shit and their reputations even shittier.
We can't all have a blog with 9 followers...
reputation lol on the internet even
The one I stated a month ago that has over 10,000 views? Or the other website I write for that has 10x as many views? With the opinions you've posted on here, I'm sure you couldn't.We can't all have a blog with 9 followers...
reputation lol on the internet even
Don't worry, outside of this response you opinion means absolutely nothing to me or anyone else here. You'll fade out in another month or two just like the rest of the useless idiots who want us to trade for Tom Brady and sign Bill Cowher as HC.
I'm sure you're amazing at Madden, though, so congratulations.
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Ice Dawg19 said:
TCPO, I have to agree. And when I can't come to a conclusion on something, personally I do none of the above. If the draft was tommorrow, I think taking Watkins would be the smart thing to do. However, their is a lot of info that hasn't been processed yet. Between now and May will help sort more of this out.
The problem I have with that reasoning is that Watkins is equally as much of a question mark as Manziel. Take Tajh Boyd for example, he played on the same Clemson team against the same relatively weak talent year in and year out and he's proving that he's not nearly as high quality of a talent as people expected to be.
I think Watkins will have a solid career, depending on where he ends up, but he's not some sort of can't miss once in a lifetime talent. If anyone in this draft is a can't miss talent, it would be Clowney, and I have my reservations on him too.
This would be the year to make a play for a franchise QB. We have the playmakers for him to rely on and a solid enough offensive line for him to be protected. Regardless of what people want to claim, the offensive line finished 17th in the league in pass protection power rankings. Hardly the best, I'll agree, but it's not the same situation as Tim Couch, either.
From a cost-benefit standpoint, a QB would improve this team much more than a #2 WR would.
If he fails, Hoyer is still on the roster.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns.Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
I was going to compare Manziel to Michael Vick, who I consider the #1 rushing qb of all time- except he isn't. That honor still belongs to Randall Cunningham. Yeah there's a couple HOFers in the top 10 qb rushing club- most notably Steve Young & John Elway- but there's a lot of underachievers there too. Manziels style is no where near those previously mentioned .
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I can tell you've never seen Texas A&M play...
Yes, I have. Manziel's style is if his primary read isn't open, he runs around with reckless (more on that in a second) abandon scrambling until someone does break open, or takes off with his feet. The way he plants and twists to avoid pressure or hits is an open invitation for an opposing NFL linebacker to blow his knee out. Refer to MasterDog's clip if you don't believe me.
This article is pretty much what all the Manziel folks want to see...
But it's EXACTLY what will not work in the NFL.
The first GIF was a good example. There was NO ONE near him. He didn't need to dance around, in the NFL he will NOT have that much time.
The 2nd Gif the writer wanted us to see. He took off but his head never looked beyond the first read. Number 38 on the defense did not attack him. I'm pretty sure he would had easily gotten caught on that run at the pro-level.
Again, everything is about running around and 'improvising', you can improvise when you take snap behind one of the BEST Offensive lines in college. In the NFL you have best 3 seconds....
I think Manziel and Hoyer are similar in stature, Hoyer is an inch to an inch and a half taller, and 8-10 pounds heavier. They're comparable in size and stature. I would expect Manziel's playing height to be between 6'0 and 6'1 and his playing weight to be between 210 and 215.
I haven't fully analyzed enough tape on Manziel to make a judgment but from what I've seen so far, he has slightly above average arm talent and has the ability to push the ball down the field. His mechanics and footwork aren't ideal. Basically, he just plays backyard football. He's not technically proficient, he's not a student of the game, he's not a football genius, but he has tremendous instincts, amazing mobility, and an NFL caliber arm.
I honestly can't pick between Bortles and Manziel. I've been on the Bortles bandwagon since the beginning of the year and have the posts here to prove it, but Manziel and Bortles are two startlingly different quarterbacks. Without an OC, it's hard to determine who would be the best quarterback for us. In a McDaniels/Belichick style of the Erhardt-Perkins spread offense, I would rather have Manziel. In an Bruce Arians style, motion-heavy spread attack, I would rather have Bortles.
It just depends on who we hire.
Sandlot football doesn't work in the NFL TC- and you should know that. If Pettine wants smash mouth football- Johnny be Not So good isn't someone he's going to want. Look at the really great ones, Peyton, Brady, Brees. They decipher the defense, figure out who's likely to be open and get the ball to them quickly and on target, not scramble around like a.nut trying to make plays with your legs & maybe your arm. Probably the closest analogy in the NFL to Johnny Football is Kaepenic or Newton- but they're both way bigger, have better (IMHO) accuracy on the run, and when they scramble, it's in a far more controlled fashion. Honestly, my personal opinion I'd put Manziel as a top of second round talent. Top 5? He's nowhere near RGIII good pre-draft.
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Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't.
I was going to compare Manziel to Michael Vick, who I consider the #1 rushing qb of all time- except he isn't. That honor still belongs to Randall Cunningham. Yeah there's a couple HOFers in the top 10 qb rushing club- most notably Steve Young & John Elway- but there's a lot of underachievers there too. Manziels style is no where near those previously mentioned .
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I can tell you've never seen Texas A&M play...
Yes, I have. Manziel's style is if his primary read isn't open, he runs around with reckless (more on that in a second) abandon scrambling until someone does break open, or takes off with his feet. The way he plants and twists to avoid pressure or hits is an open invitation for an opposing NFL linebacker to blow his knee out. Refer to MasterDog's clip if you don't believe me.
This article is pretty much what all the Manziel folks want to see...
But it's EXACTLY what will not work in the NFL.
The first GIF was a good example. There was NO ONE near him. He didn't need to dance around, in the NFL he will NOT have that much time.
The 2nd Gif the writer wanted us to see. He took off but his head never looked beyond the first read. Number 38 on the defense did not attack him. I'm pretty sure he would had easily gotten caught on that run at the pro-level.
Again, everything is about running around and 'improvising', you can improvise when you take snap behind one of the BEST Offensive lines in college. In the NFL you have best 3 seconds....
I think Manziel and Hoyer are similar in stature, Hoyer is an inch to an inch and a half taller, and 8-10 pounds heavier. They're comparable in size and stature. I would expect Manziel's playing height to be between 6'0 and 6'1 and his playing weight to be between 210 and 215.
I haven't fully analyzed enough tape on Manziel to make a judgment but from what I've seen so far, he has slightly above average arm talent and has the ability to push the ball down the field. His mechanics and footwork aren't ideal. Basically, he just plays backyard football. He's not technically proficient, he's not a student of the game, he's not a football genius, but he has tremendous instincts, amazing mobility, and an NFL caliber arm.
I honestly can't pick between Bortles and Manziel. I've been on the Bortles bandwagon since the beginning of the year and have the posts here to prove it, but Manziel and Bortles are two startlingly different quarterbacks. Without an OC, it's hard to determine who would be the best quarterback for us. In a McDaniels/Belichick style of the Erhardt-Perkins spread offense, I would rather have Manziel. In an Bruce Arians style, motion-heavy spread attack, I would rather have Bortles.
It just depends on who we hire.
Sandlot football doesn't work in the NFL TC- and you should know that. If Pettine wants smash mouth football- Johnny be Not So good isn't someone he's going to want. Look at the really great ones, Peyton, Brady, Brees. They decipher the defense, figure out who's likely to be open and get the ball to them quickly and on target, not scramble around like a.nut trying to make plays with your legs & maybe your arm. Probably the closest analogy in the NFL to Johnny Football is Kaepenic or Newton- but they're both way bigger, have better (IMHO) accuracy on the run, and when they scramble, it's in a far more controlled fashion. Honestly, my personal opinion I'd put Manziel as a top of second round talent. Top 5? He's nowhere near RGIII good pre-draft.
I was going to compare Manziel to Michael Vick, who I consider the #1 rushing qb of all time- except he isn't. That honor still belongs to Randall Cunningham. Yeah there's a couple HOFers in the top 10 qb rushing club- most notably Steve Young & John Elway- but there's a lot of underachievers there too. Manziels style is no where near those previously mentioned .
Yes, I have. Manziel's style is if his primary read isn't open, he runs around with reckless (more on that in a second) abandon scrambling until someone does break open, or takes off with his feet. The way he plants and twists to avoid pressure or hits is an open invitation for an opposing NFL linebacker to blow his knee out. Refer to MasterDog's clip if you don't
Sandlot football doesn't work in the NFL TC- and you should know that. If Pettine wants smash mouth football- Johnny be Not So good isn't someone he's going to want. Look at the really great ones, Peyton, Brady, Brees. They decipher the defense, figure out who's likely to be open and get the ball to them quickly and on target, not scramble around like a.nut trying to make plays with your legs & maybe your arm. Probably the closest analogy in the NFL to Johnny Football is Kaepenic or Newton- but they're both way bigger, have better (IMHO) accuracy on the run, and when they scramble, it's in a far more controlled fashion. Honestly, my personal opinion I'd put Manziel as a top of second round talent. Top 5? He's nowhere near RGIII good pre-draft.
His mobility and scrambling style have absolutely nothing to do with his ability to read defenses or make decisions. Manziel was careful with his passes and shows natural accuracy.
If you don't like the kid, that's fine. But call a spade a spade and just say you think he's an asshole. Don't try and thinly veil it behind a bad and frankly, wrong, scouting report.
Calling him a second rounder is absurd. Johnny Manziel, on the field, is a top 15 pick in any draft in the last 10 years. If Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, and Brady Quinn can go in the first, there's no fucking way in the world Manziel couldn't.
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I was going to compare Manziel to Michael Vick, who I consider the #1 rushing qb of all time- except he isn't. That honor still belongs to Randall Cunningham. Yeah there's a couple HOFers in the top 10 qb rushing club- most notably Steve Young & John Elway- but there's a lot of underachievers there too. Manziels style is no where near those previously mentioned .
Yes, I have. Manziel's style is if his primary read isn't open, he runs around with reckless (more on that in a second) abandon scrambling until someone does break open, or takes off with his feet. The way he plants and twists to avoid pressure or hits is an open invitation for an opposing NFL linebacker to blow his knee out. Refer to MasterDog's clip if you don't
Sandlot football doesn't work in the NFL TC- and you should know that. If Pettine wants smash mouth football- Johnny be Not So good isn't someone he's going to want. Look at the really great ones, Peyton, Brady, Brees. They decipher the defense, figure out who's likely to be open and get the ball to them quickly and on target, not scramble around like a.nut trying to make plays with your legs & maybe your arm. Probably the closest analogy in the NFL to Johnny Football is Kaepenic or Newton- but they're both way bigger, have better (IMHO) accuracy on the run, and when they scramble, it's in a far more controlled fashion. Honestly, my personal opinion I'd put Manziel as a top of second round talent. Top 5? He's nowhere near RGIII good pre-draft.
His mobility and scrambling style have absolutely nothing to do with his ability to read defenses or make decisions. Manziel was careful with his passes and shows natural accuracy.
If you don't like the kid, that's fine. But call a spade a spade and just say you think he's an asshole. Don't try and thinly veil it behind a bad and frankly, wrong, scouting report.
Calling him a second rounder is absurd. Johnny Manziel, on the field, is a top 15 pick in any draft in the last 10 years. If Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, and Brady Quinn can go in the first, there's no fucking way in the world Manziel couldn't.
His mobility and scrambling style have absolutely nothing to do with his ability to read defenses or make decisions. Manziel was careful with his passes and shows natural accuracy.
If you don't like the kid, that's fine. But call a spade a spade and just say you think he's an asshole. Don't try and thinly veil it behind a bad and frankly, wrong, scouting report.
Calling him a second rounder is absurd. Johnny Manziel, on the field, is a top 15 pick in any draft in the last 10 years. If Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, and Brady Quinn can go in the first, there's no fucking way in the world Manziel couldn't.
BS. They have everything to do with his ability to make quick multiple checkdown reads, and potential injury risk. So why are virtually every one of Football's highlight reels the result of a scramble or roll out? You're seriously over-rating Manziel. And I'll stand my ground- just like I did telling Shep he was full of shit pimping Quinn. There are scouts that do have him as a top second rounder. The reports having him as the highest bust\reward potential are legion- and I'm taking bust\injury off field asshole risk, thank you very much.
Thank God Haslam pretty much called the "Manziel at any cost" rumor for what it is- a rumor. I wouldn't even have put it past Weasel Banner to have started it, just to see how Browns fans would react. This fan will puke.
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