HOF Class decided Saturday
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Comparative coaching stats:
Brian Billick 80-64 4 playoff years 1 title
Blanton Collier 76-34-2 5 playoff years 1 title 1 title game loss (3 if you include NFL title games in 68/69)#
Bill Cowher 148-90-1 10 playoff years 1 title 1 title game loss
Mike Ditka (as coach) 121-95 7 playoff years 1 title
Tony Dungy 139-69 11 playoff years 1 title
Tom Flores 97-87 5 playoff years 2 titles
Jon Gruden 95-81 5 playoff years 1 title
Jimmy Johnson 80-64 6 playoff years 2 titles
George Seifert 114-62 7 playoff years 2 titles
Mike Holmgren 161-111 12 playoff years 1 title 1 title game loss
Dick Vermeil 120-109 6 playoff years 1 title 1 title game loss
Mike Shanahan 170-138 8 playoff years 2 titles
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Tom Flores, yes he was a good one. He rebuilt the Raiders after Madden, and overcame Air Coryell.
What about Kenny Stabler? I wonder if he pissed people off or something, he never gets recognized either.
Tom Flores, yes he was a good one. He rebuilt the Raiders after Madden, and overcame Air Coryell.
What about Kenny Stabler? I wonder if he pissed people off or something, he never gets recognized either.
See above. I suspect winning under 100 games, and only being 10 games over .500 has something to do with the situation with Flores not getting in. He did later coach a fairly bad Seahawks team.
Both Stabler and Plunkett get short shifted as well. Plunkett is the only eligible 2 time SB winner who is not in the HOF.
OH, and FYI, Coryell was a semifinalist who did not make the Finalist list. (but...Coryell never won a title)
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Tom Flores, yes he was a good one. He rebuilt the Raiders after Madden, and overcame Air Coryell.
What about Kenny Stabler? I wonder if he pissed people off or something, he never gets recognized either.
See above. I suspect winning under 100 games, and only being 10 games over .500 has something to do with the situation with Flores not getting in. He did later coach a fairly bad Seahawks team.
Both Stabler and Plunkett get short shifted as well. Plunkett is the only eligible 2 time SB winner who is not in the HOF.
OH, and FYI, Coryell was a semifinalist who did not make the Finalist list. (but...Coryell never won a title)
Both Stabler and Plunkett get short shifted as well. Plunkett is the only eligible 2 time SB winner who is not in the HOF.
Go look at Plunkett's career stats and tell me he deserves in http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PlunJi00.htm 52% completion rate, more TDs than interceptions, and a qbr of 67. If he deserves in, put Doug Williams in too- because he won a Super Bowl. Plunkett for the most part sucked. Don't believe it? His career qbr is worse than Brandon Weeden's.
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Both Stabler and Plunkett get short shifted as well. Plunkett is the only eligible 2 time SB winner who is not in the HOF.
Go look at Plunkett's career stats and tell me he deserves in http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PlunJi00.htm 52% completion rate, more TDs than interceptions, and a qbr of 67. If he deserves in, put Doug Williams in too- because he won a Super Bowl. Plunkett for the most part sucked. Don't believe it? His career qbr is worse than Brandon Weeden's.
Go look at Plunkett's career stats and tell me he deserves in http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PlunJi00.htm 52% completion rate, more TDs than interceptions, and a qbr of 67. If he deserves in, put Doug Williams in too- because he won a Super Bowl. Plunkett for the most part sucked. Don't believe it? His career qbr is worse than Brandon Weeden's.
But you cannot compare a guy like that to the kind of stats that people put now.
If you look at Terry Bradshaw and Joe Namath's stats they are more similar to Plunkett than to that of today's QBs.
Both Bradshaw and Namath threw as many ints. as TDs. Both had completion pct.s around 50%. And I suspect ther QB ratings were not dissimilar.
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Quarterback ratings for various people:
Jack Kemp 57.3 ....won 2 titles
Tobin Rote 56.8.....won 2 titles
Doug Williams....69.4 won 1 title
Jim Plunkett....67.5....won 2 titles
Joe Namath...65.5....won 1 title HOF
Terry Bradshaw 70.9....won 4 titles HOF
George Blanda...60.6 HOF
Bob Waterfield...61.6....2 titles HOF
Bobby Layne...63.4....2 titles HOF
I mean, like 8 out of the 10 best passer rating QBs in history are active because of the advantages QBs have now.
Compare Plunkett et al to contemporaries. Not by current standards.
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Completion % for various QBs:
Blanda 47.7
Layne 49.5
Namath 50.1
Waterfield 50.3
Williams 49.5
Kemp 46.7
Rote 45.7
Morrall 51.3
Bradshaw 51.9
Plunkett 52.5
Unitas 54.6
Tittle 55.2
Graham 55.8
Griese 56.2
Staubach 57.0
Tarkenton 57.0
Jurgenson 57.1
Dawson 57.1
Starr 57.4
Plunkett's passer rating and completion pcts were right in good line with his contemporaries.
The thing that skewed things a bit is that Joe Montana came along with his WCO and completion pcts. went way up because that system became a dink/dunk deal and yes, completion pcts. began to inch up as that WCO became more and more in vogue.
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But, how about TD%? Here is the whole group:
Luckman 7.9
Herber 6.9
Graham 6.6
Dawson 6.4
Tom Thompson 6.4 (2 titles
Baugh 6.2
Waterfield 6.0
Morrall 6.0
Jurgenson 6.0
Banda 5.9
Peyton 5.8
Griese 5.6
Unitas 5.6
Young 5.6
Tittle 5.5
Brady 5.5
Bradshaw 5.4
Layne 5.3
Tarkenton 5.3
Staubach 5.2
Warner 5.1
Rote 5.1
Montana 5.1
Roethlisberger 5.0
Marino 5.0
Favre 5.0
Kelly 5.0
Starr 4.8
Namath 4.6
Eli 4.6
Fouts 4.5
Plunkett 4.4
Moon 4.3
Elway 4.1
Luck 3.9
Kosar 3.7
Aikman 3.5
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Greene made it to the SB only one year, and that was the 90's Steelers team that lost to the Cowboys, right? (1994 or 95 I believe) Just trying to figure out why he gets a nod and Matthews doesn't. Makes no sense to me. His brother is in, and his son probably will be someday. Not saying he should get in because of his family, just that the talent is obviously there.
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Plunkett was no Hall of Famer. He had a 4-5 year stretch that was memorable. Rest of his career was forgettable.
Z
Zombo said:
Plunkett was no Hall of Famer. He had a 4-5 year stretch that was memorable. Rest of his career was forgettable.
Z
You might be able to say the same thing about half the guys that are in the HOF.
Truly, Joe Namath's memorable period was about 1 year.
I am not saying that he should be in....I am only saying that his stats in terms of passer rating and completion % were by no means poor in relation to his contemporaries.
(but, anyway, he is not up for consideration. In fact, there is not a QB in the 17 finalists.)
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These are the "positions" that do make up the finalists:
1 Coach: Dungy
1 Owner: DeBartolo
1 OG: Shields
1 OT: Jones
1 Punter: Ray Guy
1 Kicker: Morten Andersen
1 RB: Bettis
2 DBs: Williams, Lynch
3 WRs: Brown, Reed, Harrison
5 DE/OLBs: Strahan, Humphrey, Greene, Haley, Brooks
We have a similar logjam now that we had when it was Brown/Reed/Carter. Carter gets in and Harrison comes along.
Then there are those pass rushers. I personally think Brooks is the top dog there.....and more logjam to follow.
Does anyone agree with Warren Sapp that Strahan does not belong?
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The logjam at WR could only get worse next year as these are some of the first time eligibles next year:
Torry Holt
Isaac Bruce
(do these guys deserve it more that the Tim Brown/Harrison/Reed team?
also:
Edgerrin James (who is more deserving? He or Bettis)
Ty Law
Kevin Mawae
Orlando Pace (a probably selectee)
Junior Seau (guarnteed in my mind to be elected)
Kurt Warner ( a probably selection)
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Strahan
Brooks
Reed
Jones
Williams
Guy
Humphrey
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Strahan
Brooks
Reed
Jones
Williams
Guy
Humphrey
Zombo said:
Strahan
Brooks
Reed
Jones
Williams
Guy
Humphrey
A punter makes it!
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