I would eat an Entire bag of dicks if it got you to like me
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Well, you are young......and you are either ill informed. or a complete dumbass if you say you cannot understand the hate for Model Or apparently you are a hypocrite of the first degree.
Ask your parents how much love they have in their hearts for Robert Irsay. Then maybe you will get a clue.
I'm sure it's just that he's too young to know truly know what it feels like to have your team stolen. At least he's not a hypocrite like most Ravens fans who hate the Indianpolis Colts and think that should be their team (it should) but have no problem supporting another stolen team.
I'm sure it's just that he's too young to know truly know what it feels like to have your team stolen. At least he's not a hypocrite like most Ravens fans who hate the Indianpolis Colts and think that should be their team (it should) but have no problem supporting another stolen team.
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
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Well, you are young......and you are either ill informed. or a complete dumbass if you say you cannot understand the hate for Model Or apparently you are a hypocrite of the first degree.
Ask your parents how much love they have in their hearts for Robert Irsay. Then maybe you will get a clue.
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
Ravens5220 said:
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
I read that Modell influenced the NFL into not expanding into Baltimore, and pushed for Jax....I wonder why? FUUUUUUUUU
Anyhow, I dwell on the move often. It sucked to see Modell get a Super Bowl pretty fast after the move. The Rams, Raiders, & Titans also got to the Super Bowl pretty quick after uprooting their teams, that sucks.
Karlis Missed -
Cleveland area Professional Football titles:
1920 Akron Pros
1922 Canton Bulldogs
1923 Canton Bulldogs
1924 Cleveland Bulldogs
1945 Cleveland Rams
1946 Cleveland Browns
1947 Cleveland Browns
1948 Cleveland Browns
1949 Cleveland Browns
1950 Cleveland Browns
1954 Cleveland Browns
1955 Cleveland Browns
1964 Cleveland Browns
Baltimore football titles:
1958 Baltimore Colts
1959 Baltimore Colts
1970 Baltimore Colts
2000 Baltimore Ravens
2012 Baltimore Ravens
(even if you include the CFL title and the USFL title won in Baltimore...which most people don't, they still only have half the titles as Cleveland)
Cleveland area Professional Football titles:
1920 Akron Pros
1922 Canton Bulldogs
1923 Canton Bulldogs
1924 Cleveland Bulldogs
1945 Cleveland Rams
1946 Cleveland Browns
1947 Cleveland Browns
1948 Cleveland Browns
1949 Cleveland Browns
1950 Cleveland Browns
1954 Cleveland Browns
1955 Cleveland Browns
1964 Cleveland Browns
Baltimore football titles:
1958 Baltimore Colts
1959 Baltimore Colts
1970 Baltimore Colts
2000 Baltimore Ravens
2012 Baltimore Ravens
(even if you include the CFL title and the USFL title won in Baltimore...which most people don't, they still only have half the titles as Cleveland)
This is such a dumb thing to argue....you have like 60 years of prior experience to use against the argument. Had the Colts be around in the 20's maybe things would be different. LOL @ you. This is hilarious.
How about you take Cleveland vs. Baltimore in titles since Baltimore Colts came into existence...then add it up...Cleveland would look like the factory of sadness that they are.
Theres a reason why people say Cleveland is the saddest and worst sports town...because their professional teams usually suck. Its not me saying it, its fact and said by many....
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Ravens5220 said:
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
I read that Modell influenced the NFL into not expanding into Baltimore, and pushed for Jax....I wonder why? FUUUUUUUUU
Anyhow, I dwell on the move often. It sucked to see Modell get a Super Bowl pretty fast after the move. The Rams, Raiders, & Titans also got to the Super Bowl pretty quick after uprooting their teams, that sucks.
I read that Modell influenced the NFL into not expanding into Baltimore, and pushed for Jax....I wonder why? FUUUUUUUUU
Anyhow, I dwell on the move often. It sucked to see Modell get a Super Bowl pretty fast after the move. The Rams, Raiders, & Titans also got to the Super Bowl pretty quick after uprooting their teams, that sucks.
Well your source on that is incorrect....completely incorrect. Tagliabue hates Baltimore and voiced that, so it had nothing to do with Modells influence. He told us to go build another museum.
Well maybe that upsets you, but remember what BALTIMORE did as a franchise once they moved had nothing to do with CLE...go look at how many people on the super bowl roster were from cleveland...Stover and Burnett....?
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Well, you are young......and you are either ill informed. or a complete dumbass if you say you cannot understand the hate for Model Or apparently you are a hypocrite of the first degree.
Ask your parents how much love they have in their hearts for Robert Irsay. Then maybe you will get a clue.
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
That's turning out to be our curse more than anything. Hindsight is 20/20 on that bullshit. Being part of bringin the history back for the fans was the idea but it really benefited the league more than anything. The NFL Shoulda lost the Browns. Would been a blackeye for them.Ravens5220 said:
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Ravens5220 said:
I just can't understand all the hate for Art Modell...ok yes he moved the team, but remember Baltimore knows what that's like as well (and even worse) sorry it was worse...I know you will disagree, but it was.
Bottom line....is Cleveland was left its history, colors, heritage and promise to have team returned witin 3 years (and it was)....also, here in Baltimore we got over the whole Colts thing long ago. Plus i'm 25, so I was born without a football team in town.
If you lived here, you would understand.
I almost got sent home from work the day Art made the announcement down on the Baltimore harbor. Google "Mike Ditka" commenting on the Browns move....it was a dark day in NFL history, just like the Colts fleeing in '83.
If you lived here, you would understand.
I almost got sent home from work the day Art made the announcement down on the Baltimore harbor. Google "Mike Ditka" commenting on the Browns move....it was a dark day in NFL history, just like the Colts fleeing in '83.
Saw the Ditka thing...I mean I've also heard Ditka talk about how great it is that footballs back in Baltimore, so whats the difference? He's not gonna be like "yay the browns are leaving". I could guide you to watch and read many things about the Baltimore Colts move....
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That's turning out to be our curse more than anything. Hindsight is 20/20 on that bullshit. Being part of bringin the history back for the fans was the idea but it really benefited the league more than anything. The NFL Shoulda lost the Browns. Would been a blackeye for them.Ravens5220 said:
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
That's turning out to be our curse more than anything. Hindsight is 20/20 on that bullshit. Being part of bringin the history back for the fans was the idea but it really benefited the league more than anything. The NFL Shoulda lost the Browns. Would been a blackeye for them.
Just like the league said it was a black eye when they lost the Colts...but it took 12 years to get a team back in Baltimore...psh think before you write.
Also, your curse has nothing to do with Baltimore....forget about Modell...were talking Baltimore. Theres no guarantees that you would have won jack had Modell stayed in Cleveland.
Just like that idiot Tony Grossi who stands up each year trying to keep Modell out of the Hall of Fame....loser.
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Ravens5220 said:
First off, Daisys and Puppies? LOL that was funny, but no I didn't expect that. On the other hand, I didn't expect stupidity.
If you didn't expect stupidity then why are you practicing it?
Ray didn't murder anyone, he was guilty of obstruction of justice (plus this is like 17 years old) hands washed and time to move on honestly regardless of what team you like.
Adolph Hitler didn't kill anyone either, he just directed things. Possibly the same as RayRay. I understand what he was convicted of....and OJ Simpson is completely innocent as well. Being "not guilty" is not the same as being innocent. I am an attorney/magistrate. You want to get into the niceties of the law, we can. You just have to pay the retainer to be educated.
Has this become a hatred against Jews now? Using them twice in examples now? First off to call Ray Lewis a MURDERER is wrong...he was never convicted of that. Its your opinion, but its false. I respect your Law knowledge, but I also think that guilty people eventually get their due...like OJ and like George Zimmerman looks like hes going to get soon. As for Ray, if he was in fact guilty he will eventually pay, but my gut says he was just caught up with the wrong people at the wrong time.
Glad we agree on Ozzie and Ravens super bowls because many Browns fans don't agree with that.
As for Modell, he shouldn't rot in hell for many many reasons....we could talk about that for hours.
Art Modell is a turncoat and a whore. He tried to take the team away from here purely out of his own greed for money.
And he got that money....the 75 million Baltimore gave him......but even that could not make up for the fact that he was incompetent and inept to the point that the banks that lent him money were threatening foreclosure of the Ravens franchise.
At that point the NFL stepped in saying they have had enough of his ineptitude and ordered the sale of the franchise to avoid the calamity of the foreclosure.
The good thing for you is that you found a good owner for your team. So be happy about it.
First of all, any smart business man would move his business if he wasn't going to get what was needed to sustain it. I run a business and if my funders were no longer willing to support I wouldn't just let me business rot. Also, I get your upset with his move, but you have to understand Modell even after leaving spoke glowingly of CLE and he left what was important....colors, history, jerseys, heritage, records. He left that with CLE so that the new franchise that would soon take over could live on the history of CLE football, so don't be sorry about that....All Baltimore Colts fans don't have that luxury my friend.
Also, you may have to elaborate on the Baltimore sucking more than Cleveland bit...because in terms of football I think only morons would agree with your suggestion....
Really? The last time I noticed the Pro Football Hall of Fame is located outside of Cleveland, not Baltimore. The Cleveland area has won more football championships than any other city/region (tied with Green Bay).
LOL always living the past I see...pretty sure you've never won a Super Bowl and almost positive the Baltimore Colts/Baltimore Ravens have been much more successful than the CLE football franchise, but okay. Hows your baseball team doing? LOL Cleveland baseball really has a rich tradition...psh not so much. We are a smaller city, so we don't have a basketball team anymore plus we aren't a college football city...which makes our city unique, but when the Bullets were around they were darn more successful than the Cavaliers (lord) lol.
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
First off, Daisys and Puppies? LOL that was funny, but no I didn't expect that. On the other hand, I didn't expect stupidity.
If you didn't expect stupidity then why are you practicing it?
Ray didn't murder anyone, he was guilty of obstruction of justice (plus this is like 17 years old) hands washed and time to move on honestly regardless of what team you like.
Adolph Hitler didn't kill anyone either, he just directed things. Possibly the same as RayRay. I understand what he was convicted of....and OJ Simpson is completely innocent as well. Being "not guilty" is not the same as being innocent. I am an attorney/magistrate. You want to get into the niceties of the law, we can. You just have to pay the retainer to be educated.
Has this become a hatred against Jews now? Using them twice in examples now?
You really are ignorant, aren't you. I bring up the "Jewish" thing because Jews do not believe in the existance of a Hell......and with all this "rotting in hell" business I was merely pointing out a fact of theology.
So, we have established you know little about sports, and you know little about religion. You wanna go for the Trifecta and talk politics? (If so, go the the Political Forum)
First off to call Ray Lewis a MURDERER is wrong...he was never convicted of that. Its your opinion, but its false. I respect your Law knowledge, but I also think that guilty people eventually get their due...like OJ and like George Zimmerman looks like hes going to get soon. As for Ray, if he was in fact guilty he will eventually pay, but my gut says he was just caught up with the wrong people at the wrong time.
Those "people" were his bodyguards, his home boys whom he had hired to provide for his security.
And NO, an Opinion cannot be false, that is why it is an opinion. My opinion is that he may have gotten away with murder....just like, apparently, you believe OJ and Zimmerman did.
Glad we agree on Ozzie and Ravens super bowls because many Browns fans don't agree with that.
As for Modell, he shouldn't rot in hell for many many reasons....we could talk about that for hours.
Art Modell is a turncoat and a whore. He tried to take the team away from here purely out of his own greed for money.
And he got that money....the 75 million Baltimore gave him......but even that could not make up for the fact that he was incompetent and inept to the point that the banks that lent him money were threatening foreclosure of the Ravens franchise.
At that point the NFL stepped in saying they have had enough of his ineptitude and ordered the sale of the franchise to avoid the calamity of the foreclosure.
The good thing for you is that you found a good owner for your team. So be happy about it.
First of all, any smart business man would move his business if he wasn't going to get what was needed to sustain it.
The point is: he WAS getting it. The tax measure passed....but he still wouldn't accept things. DUH. Like I said, you are apparently IGNORANT of these facts.
I run a business and if my funders were no longer willing to support I wouldn't just let me business rot. Also, I get your upset with his move, but you have to understand Modell even after leaving spoke glowingly of CLE and he left what was important....colors, history, jerseys, heritage, records.
Well, apparently just being ignorant of facts isn't good enough for you for you appear to be a complete fucking dumbass? You not bother to read what you respond to. Modell didn't leave a GODDAMN thing.
When are you going to get that through your thick stupid head. This if the 4th time I have told you.
I mean, are you a Downs Syndrome person or what? I have told you over and over and over.
He left that with CLE so that the new franchise that would soon take over could live on the history of CLE football, so don't be sorry about that....All Baltimore Colts fans don't have that luxury my friend.
Also, you may have to elaborate on the Baltimore sucking more than Cleveland bit...because in terms of football I think only morons would agree with your suggestion....
Really? The last time I noticed the Pro Football Hall of Fame is located outside of Cleveland, not Baltimore. The Cleveland area has won more football championships than any other city/region (tied with Green Bay).
LOL always living the past I see..
Everything other than the Seahawks title is the past. Ony the current Champion and the next championship are relevent. The 2012 Ravens title is no more significant to what is going on now than the Akron Pros 1920 title. It is all history.
.pretty sure you've never won a Super Bowl and almost positive the Baltimore Colts/Baltimore Ravens have been much more successful than the CLE football franchise, but okay.
Then you would be wrong. I gave you the facts above. The Browns themselves have won 8 championships. And there were others before them. Can you not read? Can you not count?
Baltimore would need 8 more titles to catch up even with Cleveland.
Hows your baseball team doing? LOL Cleveland baseball really has a rich tradition...psh not so much.
The Indians made the playoffs this year. The Orioles didn't.
Cleveland and Baltimore's baseball histories are very similar: The Orioles are 3-3 in World Series, the Indians are 2-3....but of course the Indians have made 2 WS appearances since the last time Baltimore was in one.
We are a smaller city, so we don't have a basketball team anymore plus we aren't a college football city...which makes our city unique, but when the Bullets were around they were darn more successful than the Cavaliers (lord) lol.
First off, you again show igorance. Baltimore is quite a bit larger than Cleveland. 621K vs. 385K. And the Metropolitan statistical area of Wash/Baltimore is like 9.5 million vs. 3.4 million for Cleveland.
As for the Bullets.....well, they are like the Colts, you don't have them anymore. And the fact is, that team was only in Baltimore for 10 years. 1963-64 to 1973-74. And they were not more successful than the Cavs. They like the Cavs never won a title and appeared in a single finals.
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Well, you are young......and you are either ill informed. or a complete dumbass if you say you cannot understand the hate for Model Or apparently you are a hypocrite of the first degree.
Ask your parents how much love they have in their hearts for Robert Irsay. Then maybe you will get a clue.
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
Ravens5220 said:
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
Trust me, idjit. People in Baltimore DO hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell.
And what about Baltimore? The NFL was hohum about whether Baltimore had a team.......that is obvious as it WAS passed over for those other cities....while the NFL intervened and fought tooth and nail for the team in Cleveland.
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Ravens5220 said:
I am very proud to be a Ravens fan...we have an amazing fan base and our franchise is one of 5 model franchises that has 2nd best home field winning percentage...multiple super bowls in the last two decades and and an organization that has shelled out the most front office staff and assistant coaches in the league. I know my facts trust me. (I hope you know your current HC and now assistants are all Ravens guys)(they got all those guys from Buffalo...some of those guys probably had jobs with half a dozen other teams, not just the Ravens.
Those facts may all be true. Thanks to Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti.
This is where you are wrong....it is ALL thanks to Art Modell. You don't understand the history...football in Baltimore is a miracle and a miracle made by Art. Baltimore is the perfect football city and when he moved it here it brought all this new history and love.
Modell may have upset your city with his move, but he left the most important stuff behind. Not to mention you only see the bad in what he did. You don't see the other side of it. So it goes both ways.
First off....it appears that you do not either listen or have serious reading comprehension issues.
Modell didn't have a goddamn thing to do with "leaving" anything behind. It was the NFL that intervened and said that they want the Cleveland Browns franchise to stay in Cleveland. So, it was they and the Court system that decreed that those things be "left".
And you say that we don't see the other side of it. Please explain what that other side is.
The other side is simple....the NFL ordered all of that is perfect. It leads me right into the fact that where was the NFL when Robert Irsay just snuck out of town to a lowly Indy city that has no interest in colts and history of Baltimore or football in general. Also, where was the NFL to order all the history of BALTIMORE football to be kept behind in Baltimore? Huh? Pretty sure the Baltimore Colts history since their existence is much more sacred then the Cleveland Browns...Baltimore was one of the winningest franchises in all of football (but how come no one cared about their drunk owner moving the team?)
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
I am very proud to be a Ravens fan...we have an amazing fan base and our franchise is one of 5 model franchises that has 2nd best home field winning percentage...multiple super bowls in the last two decades and and an organization that has shelled out the most front office staff and assistant coaches in the league. I know my facts trust me. (I hope you know your current HC and now assistants are all Ravens guys)(they got all those guys from Buffalo...some of those guys probably had jobs with half a dozen other teams, not just the Ravens.
Those facts may all be true. Thanks to Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti.
This is where you are wrong....it is ALL thanks to Art Modell. You don't understand the history...football in Baltimore is a miracle and a miracle made by Art. Baltimore is the perfect football city and when he moved it here it brought all this new history and love.
I will wager you $1000.00 that I know my football history better than you.
And you sound like a drug addled fairy worshiper. Nothing will stand in the way of your delusions.
The other side is simple....the NFL ordered all of that is perfect. It leads me right into the fact that where was the NFL when Robert Irsay just snuck out of town to a lowly Indy city that has no interest in colts and history of Baltimore or football in general. Also, where was the NFL to order all the history of BALTIMORE football to be kept behind in Baltimore? Huh? Pretty sure the Baltimore Colts history since their existence is much more sacred then the Cleveland Browns...Baltimore was one of the winningest franchises in all of football (but how come no one cared about their drunk owner moving the team?)
You again and again, and over and over prove your ignorance.
You obviously are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being more important than the Browns.
And you are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being one of the winningest franchises. In fact from the early 70s to when they moved they were one of the losingest franchise. They were worse than the Browns are now.
You really have no clue about NFL history.
And apparently you have no interest in learning about it because you want to contradict FACTs
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I'm sure it's just that he's too young to know truly know what it feels like to have your team stolen. At least he's not a hypocrite like most Ravens fans who hate the Indianpolis Colts and think that should be their team (it should) but have no problem supporting another stolen team.
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
Ravens5220 said:
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
Now you are laughable. Do you wear clown makeup around the house?
After Baltimore lost the bid for an expansion franchise they went trolling for another team. They just happened to find one with an inept owner that was greedy for cash.
Modell WAS a failed owner who didn't know how to run an NFL team. Clearly that is the case because he was kicked out of the league. And he wanted cash....and probably needed it because he was so piss poor at running things he was losing money.
But the "approach" was made by Schaefer and the MD governor. (can't recall the name)
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Cleveland area Professional Football titles:
1920 Akron Pros
1922 Canton Bulldogs
1923 Canton Bulldogs
1924 Cleveland Bulldogs
1945 Cleveland Rams
1946 Cleveland Browns
1947 Cleveland Browns
1948 Cleveland Browns
1949 Cleveland Browns
1950 Cleveland Browns
1954 Cleveland Browns
1955 Cleveland Browns
1964 Cleveland Browns
Baltimore football titles:
1958 Baltimore Colts
1959 Baltimore Colts
1970 Baltimore Colts
2000 Baltimore Ravens
2012 Baltimore Ravens
(even if you include the CFL title and the USFL title won in Baltimore...which most people don't, they still only have half the titles as Cleveland)
This is such a dumb thing to argue....you have like 60 years of prior experience to use against the argument. Had the Colts be around in the 20's maybe things would be different. LOL @ you. This is hilarious.
How about you take Cleveland vs. Baltimore in titles since Baltimore Colts came into existence...then add it up...Cleveland would look like the factory of sadness that they are.
Theres a reason why people say Cleveland is the saddest and worst sports town...because their professional teams usually suck. Its not me saying it, its fact and said by many....
Ravens5220 said:
This is such a dumb thing to argue....you have like 60 years of prior experience to use against the argument. Had the Colts be around in the 20's maybe things would be different. LOL @ you. This is hilarious.
How about you take Cleveland vs. Baltimore in titles since Baltimore Colts came into existence...then add it up...Cleveland would look like the factory of sadness that they are.
Theres a reason why people say Cleveland is the saddest and worst sports town...because their professional teams usually suck. Its not me saying it, its fact and said by many....
Here is again where you show your ignorance and lack of knowledge of sports history.
The Cleveland Browns and the Baltimore Colts have been around essentially the very same amount of time:
The original Baltimore Colts were in the AAFC with the Browns. Look it up.
Well, the Browns won 4 championships in that same league where the Colts won none.
Then the Colts came into the NFL with the Browns and 49ers, but that franchise went under....but reappeared about 3 years later.
So, in reality the Browns and Colts have the same length of existance.
Did Cleveland have other teams here that won titles prior to the mid-40s. Yes.
But the length of time involved there was more like 20-25 years, not 60.
So, yea Cleveland has a few years head start....and more than double the titles.
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I read that Modell influenced the NFL into not expanding into Baltimore, and pushed for Jax....I wonder why? FUUUUUUUUU
Anyhow, I dwell on the move often. It sucked to see Modell get a Super Bowl pretty fast after the move. The Rams, Raiders, & Titans also got to the Super Bowl pretty quick after uprooting their teams, that sucks.
Well your source on that is incorrect....completely incorrect. Tagliabue hates Baltimore and voiced that, so it had nothing to do with Modells influence. He told us to go build another museum.
Well maybe that upsets you, but remember what BALTIMORE did as a franchise once they moved had nothing to do with CLE...go look at how many people on the super bowl roster were from cleveland...Stover and Burnett....?
Ravens5220 said:
Well your source on that is incorrect....completely incorrect. Tagliabue hates Baltimore and voiced that, so it had nothing to do with Modells influence. He told us to go build another museum.
No, you are wrong. It is well documented that Modell voted against giving an expansion franchise to Baltimore. Of course this happened several years before he decided he would be a whore.
Modell felt that Baltimore didn't deserve another team. Of course his attitude changed when they held 75 million fresh greenbacks in his nose.
Well maybe that upsets you, but remember what BALTIMORE did as a franchise once they moved had nothing to do with CLE...go look at how many people on the super bowl roster were from cleveland...Stover and Burnett....?
The Baltimore franchise never moved. Or are you talking about the Colts? The Cleveland Franchise never moved either.
So, I agree what Baltimore did as a franchise after Modell was granted the Expansion Ravens franchise had nothing to do with Cleveland.
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That's turning out to be our curse more than anything. Hindsight is 20/20 on that bullshit. Being part of bringin the history back for the fans was the idea but it really benefited the league more than anything. The NFL Shoulda lost the Browns. Would been a blackeye for them.
Just like the league said it was a black eye when they lost the Colts...but it took 12 years to get a team back in Baltimore...psh think before you write.
Also, your curse has nothing to do with Baltimore....forget about Modell...were talking Baltimore. Theres no guarantees that you would have won jack had Modell stayed in Cleveland.
Just like that idiot Tony Grossi who stands up each year trying to keep Modell out of the Hall of Fame....loser.
Ravens5220 said:
Just like the league said it was a black eye when they lost the Colts...but it took 12 years to get a team back in Baltimore...psh think before you write.
Also, your curse has nothing to do with Baltimore....forget about Modell...were talking Baltimore. Theres no guarantees that you would have won jack had Modell stayed in Cleveland.
Just like that idiot Tony Grossi who stands up each year trying to keep Modell out of the Hall of Fame....loser.
I agree. There is absolutely no reason to think that any "curse" the Browns have has anything to do with Modell or Baltimore. It is just bad management that we have had here.
As far as Modell and the HOF....Grossi is right. Modell was kicked out of the NFL. Why should he be enshrined. And FYI, that ship has passed and Modell will likely never be given consideration again.
So, truly, his memory can be wiped out.
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FYI, the Colts record in the years before moving to Indy and after winning the SB:
1972 5-9
1973 4-10
1974 2-12
1975 10-4 (got Bert Jones)
1976 11-3
1977 10-4
1978 5-11
1979 5-11
1980 7-9
1981 2-14
1982 0-8-1
1983 7-9 last year before move.
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Zombo said:
No, we just stick to facts around here ... Ray Lewis was guilty of obstructing justice in two murders and Art Modell is already rotting in hell.
Zombo
At least you stuck to a fact and didn't call him a murderer. Also, pretty sure Modell isn't rotting in Hell...I can already see that the Modell topic will be too sensitive for you guys to handle.
Isn't that old news by now?
Ravens5220 said:
At least you stuck to a fact and didn't call him a murderer. Also, pretty sure Modell isn't rotting in Hell...I can already see that the Modell topic will be too sensitive for you guys to handle.
Isn't that old news by now?
What do you think about Robert Irsay? Just interested.
Woof Woof! -
To be fair there's differences
1) Cleveland approved renovations to the stadium, Modell still moved
2) Baltimore did not approve their new stadium
3) Cleveland was an expansion team, the ravens were not
Obvious differences, but I'm sure Baltimore is over the colts given that the ravens have won super bowls and been pretty successful year after year.
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Ravens5220 said:
At least you stuck to a fact and didn't call him a murderer. Also, pretty sure Modell isn't rotting in Hell...I can already see that the Modell topic will be too sensitive for you guys to handle.
Isn't that old news by now?
What do you think about Robert Irsay? Just interested.
What do you think about Robert Irsay? Just interested.
Perhaps I should read all the rest of the posts before posting! Ho Hum!
Anyways you are a troll if you think what Irsay did was worse than Modell. Get back under your bridge.
Woof Woof! -
I'm sure it's just that he's too young to know truly know what it feels like to have your team stolen. At least he's not a hypocrite like most Ravens fans who hate the Indianpolis Colts and think that should be their team (it should) but have no problem supporting another stolen team.
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
Ravens5220 said:
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
In that you're correct. However, Model did make that move behind Cleveland's back. Artie never asked for a new stadium, and there was a vote scheduled for a stadium renovation on the ballot. Never ever said, do this or I'm gone. The reaction would have been a lot more tempered if he had. Modell had the original sweetheart deal in Cleveland- he got stadium rent for a dollar a year, got to keep all the concession money, (even from when the Indians played in Municipal) and the NFLs first "luxury boxes" though by today's standards, they were pretty primitive. So why was Modell a failing owner? Artie bought the Browns for a paltry $4 million- (hard to believe considering the going price for an NFL franchise is 250X that now) and borrowed almost all the rest. IIRC his original stake was something like $250k. So instead of paying off those loans, Modell just leveraged the vastly increased worth of the franchise into ever bigger and bigger loans- and eventually it caught up with him. Even with the $75 million dollar bribe from Baltimore & the State of Maryland- and yes son- it was exactly that- and all the perks Artie didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on the loans. Bye Artie, hello Biscotti. IMO Divine justice- Artie moved the Browns to pass the team on to his cigar chomping kid, that didn't happen, and in the process he lost any respect he had on the National level- you folks in Baltimore may look on him as a hero for bringing football back to your city, but outside your local area- he's looked on as a carpetbagger- or worse.
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