Sleepers in 2014 NFL Draft

cdl15

@tour2ma said:

Three we agree upon...

The more I look at Gaines, the more I think he might be 2014's steal of steals...

I'm counting on Hoyer to do that and still looking for my mid/ late round 2014 QB.

so am I. Can't go on without wondering. And if a 4th overall qb is on the team there will never be a fair chance for anyone else. Of course I could always sit on the fence and wait for a winner and say I was on board with that pick all along. Kinda a sissy thing to do.

thenew23

@mike-h said:
Colt McCoy, Brady Quinn, Charlie Frye, etc, etc, etc... All guys who never got fair chances in Cleveland and went on to do nothing elsewhere.

Exactly. This extended time of trying to put crap in the QB spot has to end (not that Hoyer is complete crap, he's just been bounced around by other teams enough for me to have some questions). Can't we at least "try" to add a guy with 1st round talent (and don't give me the Weeden argument, he was considered a 2nd rounder at best and undraftable by some)

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mike-h said:
I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl.

Exactly.

cdl15

@mike-h said:
I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl.

have yet to read those posts. And exactly what's wrong with people admitting to being POSSIBLY wrong about him. I was wrong about him also. I certainly wanted to see more of him in2013. Now I would like to see more of him with more talent around him, a coach that likes him, and a full prrseason in 2014. Problem is if they draft a qb certain douchbags will be like oooo u wanted Hoyer not this guy. Like I've said a lot easier and pathetic to sit on the fence and wait to see who wins first.

bbedward

@mike-h said:
I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl.

I think the discussion goes more like this: "should we take a flier on a QB with tons of question marks on him with the #4 pick, or should we take a bigger name talent at another position?"

Some are just as skeptical of Hoyer as they are with guys like Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles. The difference is we're not talking about using the #4 overall pick on Hoyer.

Personally, I think this particular draft has some later round potential at QB. I think there could be a team or two that get a kaepernik/wilson type of guy.

Of course anything could happen. Every top QB could be average at best and there could be no later round guys that pan out to be good starters. I wouldn't hate us taking a QB at 4, I'm just skeptical it'd be the best move.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Houston fleeces us for the #1 pick, we take manziel, bridgewater falls to them, bridgewater turns into a 10-time pro-bowler, manziel is out of the league in 3 years, bortles and carr make the pro-bowl multiple times, the other pick houston gets from us turns into a HOF CB, lombardi is fired in november/december 14', Farmer leaves for a GM job elsewhere after lombardi is fired and wins 3 super bowls in 6 years.

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:
I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl.

Obviously we have severely warped your sense of humor...

@bbedward said:

I think the discussion goes more like this: "should we take a flier on a QB with tons of question marks on him with the #4 pick, or should we take a ("can't miss") talent at another position?"

Everyone is (Some here are) just as skeptical of Hoyer as they are with guys like Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles. The difference is we're not talking about using the #4 overall pick on Hoyer.

Very succinct post... hope you don't mind that I tweeked it a tad.

I, for one, am less skeptical of Hoyer than the Draft's "Big 4" because I have seen him at the NFL level

Tour2ma

I take Watkins... He is "Can't miss" IMO...

I do not have to prove anything about my or anyone else's view of Hoyer when he was signed. Your request is as ridiculous as me asking you to produce every post saying Hoyer was a waste of a roster spot to support your "no one" hyperbole.

I had no opinion of Hoyer when Lombardi signed him. But by the time Wheezy first went down and it was time for a backup to step in, I was all for Hoyer being the one vs. Campbell... based upon what I had seen of Hoyer in pre-season vs. what I knew of Campbell's past performance at Oakland and Washington.

cdl15

@tour2ma said:

I take Watkins... He is "Can't miss" IMO...

I do not have to prove anything about my or anyone else's view of Hoyer when he was signed. Your request is as ridiculous as me asking you to produce every post saying Hoyer was a waste of a roster spot to support your "no one" hyperbole.

I had no opinion of Hoyer when Lombardi signed him. But by the time Wheezy first went down and it was time for a backup to step in, I was all for Hoyer being the one vs. Campbell... based upon what I had seen of Hoyer in pre-season vs. what I knew of Campbell's past performance at Oakland and Washington.

here here. Watkins is a slam dunk. Get the qb later. Chances are wed end up with the 2nd or 3rd qb off the board. Get Watkins ur gettin the best at his position maybe the whole draft.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:

I take Watkins... He is "Can't miss" IMO...

I do not have to prove anything about my or anyone else's view of Hoyer when he was signed. Your request is as ridiculous as me asking you to produce every post saying Hoyer was a waste of a roster spot to support your "no one" hyperbole.

I had no opinion of Hoyer when Lombardi signed him. But by the time Wheezy first went down and it was time for a backup to step in, I was all for Hoyer being the one vs. Campbell... based upon what I had seen of Hoyer in pre-season vs. what I knew of Campbell's past performance at Oakland and Washington.

I don't feel it's hyperbole. I've been combing the forum for posts dated before the season and haven't found a single one that claims Hoyer has the potential to be a starter.

cdl15

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
I don't feel it's hyperbole. I've been combing the forum for posts dated before the season and haven't found a single one that claims Hoyer has the potential to be a starter.

So...doubt Ull ever find one of DA before 07 and he was a probowler that year. Great analysis.

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:
How many teams have two No. 1 WRs? Then, tell me where those teams finished this season.

How 'bout the 2007 Pats with Moss and Welker... As I recall they went 16-0...

Can't wait for your to tell me Welker was not a #1...

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:
My whole point about what I wrote, is that no one valued Hoyer, at all, prove me wrong. He was "Lombardis boy" and on the outside looking in on the QB job from day 1.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
I don't feel it's hyperbole. I've been combing the forum for posts dated before the season and haven't found a single one that claims Hoyer has the potential to be a starter.

TC, his use of "no one" is the very defintion of hyperbole...

hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr′bə-lē)

n.

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:
I like him, like his story, but I want a super bowl and I'm not sure he's good enough for the job. You don't know if Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles are yet. You use that No. 1 pick on a QB when ypu have "We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB" written on your draft office wall.

Yes, you do... IF you believe that one of those three QBs (or Carr or a true darkhorse) in the draft is a Championship level QB.

It seems you do..

I do not...

So rather than ridicule my choice of Watkins over your annointed trinity (which will only serve to piss me off) why not spend your time trying to convince me that one (or more) of those QBs is the guy...

... and in return I will try to convince you he is/ they are not...

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@cdl15 said:
So...doubt Ull ever find one of DA before 07 and he was a probowler that year. Great analysis.

And what's he done since?

That's a perfect comparison, thank you.

God damn, it would be sad if it wasn't so funny.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:

TC, his use of "no one" is the very defintion of hyperbole...

hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr′bə-lē)

n.

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

I know the definition of hyperbole. That's why I said I don't think it is. I literally can't find a single example of someone claiming him to be a starter.

Tour2ma

@tour2ma said:
Moss and Welker...

After a ittle more thought...

Perhaps a different Moss pairing... with Chris Carter?

... maybe Stallworth and Swan?

... or the Marks Brothers?

Just spitballing here...

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:
No, that is not hyperbole, because I was being literal. If someone said Hoyer will be the 2014 starter, with conviction, prior to his start vs. Minnesota, I'll kindly retract.

Simmer down... you got the year wrong...

Tour2ma

Did anyone proclaim Wilson to be Seattle's savior when they drafted him?

I found this unexpected source prior to Hoyer's first start in Minnesota...

@shep said:
@shep said:

Lombardi was/is high on Hoyer because he seems to have the mental aspect: He can read a defense before AND after the snap. He doesn't have slow eyes. He goes through the progressions.

He isn't a high-end physical talent, to be sure. He has a mid-range arm and low-end wheels.

Tour2ma

Also found...

@calfoxwc said:

Weeden had his chance this year to show he can see the field. He just doesn't, by NFL standards.

Sure, any qb can eventually, in terms of several seconds (see big stupid ben)...

but the ability to comprehensively see the field, and understand what is going on, and make quick decisions..

doesn't have anything to do with the big NFL arm. Sure, it was preseason, but Hoyer still sees it.

And I underestimated his arm strength a whole lot. Just saw that Hoyer is the man a few minutes ago.

Really smart move. Campbell doesn't see it any better than Weeden, and his passes didn't have zip.

Hoyer is going to come into that game, and show the difference in QB mind vs Big Arm. There aren't

many Brian Sipes or Bernie Kosars around for the Browns. And Hoyers ball placement is really, really smart.

Do I have to find more or does two adequately disprove "no one"?

Tour2ma

@mike-h said:

No sir, what I'm talking about is how no one--literally--had no idea this guy was going to come in and do anything positive. There was no expectation. No one watched his film, and said, "hey guys, I think this Hoyer signing might hve finally landed us our quarterback."

No, you watched two games--one against a terrible Minnesota defense that ranked 31st in the NFL in pass defense (and only 12 interceptions all season, Hoyer threw 3 of them), and another against Cincy, which is a game the defense clearly won.

Hoyer left points on the field against the Bengals, Campbell put up more than 17 on them.

As I have shown, at least two posts looked positively upon Hoyer starting over Campbell prior to the MN game. Claiming that a lack of folks not being on his bandwagon from his signing is a statement without merit... unless it is hyperbole... in which case it would at least serve a purpose.

I watched Hoyer start three games.

Game 1:

I saw a nervous QB getting his chance who nonetheless was decisive and sharp... excepting that he failed to account for underneath LBs ifor a couple throws. But I saw a QB who competed and put points on the board against an NFL defense and ultimately outscored a team we had issues keeping from scoring.

Game 2:

I saw a QB who in the face our the best Defensive effort of the season, first insured that he would not lose the game, but when Cinci closed to within 4 points in the 2nd half opened up enough to drive us to a game clinching TD.

His line for the game:

Game 3:

I saw a QB who was off to a good 2-4 start before being injured.

Bottom line:

I saw a mature, improving NFL QB. I saw enough to not feel that I have to risk a precious first round pick on the off chance that one of the "top" QBs in the 2014 will take me further than Hoyer can.

I'll admit I was skeptical about Hoyer and was even hoping Wheezy might recover and start the MN game... but I saw a leadership spark in Hoyer in preseason... and I said so...

@tour2ma said:
Leadership? God knows we need some on the Offense. I know I thought I saw a bit of a spark in preseason.