Jonathan Paul Manziel
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stfu everybody. i know how good tark and marino and kelly were, hell we had glimpses of greatness with flippin kosar.
everyone was bringing up the fact that JF reminds them of tark and how great he was. yeah he was great, but put him on the list of great players that never won the big one.
that's all.
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bullshit.
if they miss on a QB with their first or second pick we will go down in history as having more QBs than any other team in a 14 year period that have all been busts. how can you say it won't set us back or it's no big deal? holmgren's pick of both mccoy and weeden set us back a decade and you're advocating doing the same thing? hell let the vikings trade up and swap picks with us for a christian ponder the 3rd and let them be the laughing stock when julius peppers plants manziel into the astroturf in his home dome.
farmer looks pretty smart to me and all of these so-called top 5 QBs look like a dumb move for a defensive player turned GM with a DC turned HC.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
i'm advocating leaving it status quo, that's correct, at QB position until somewhere in the 3rd and we can get a guy that farmer sees gold in. i really doubt you are going to see us take a QB with our first pick and hopefully not our second either.
this draft is so deep at other positions of need that we can build that killer TEAM have all the pieces in place for a guy coming out next year.
do you really think the cleveland browns at this point just by adding a QB will make it to the playoffs next year? simple question. why not get a #2 CB? a tall sticky handed fast WR? an OT for the right side? a beast mode RB? a ball busting SS? another complimentary TE? and those are before people are either dumped or traded which means we'd have to add to those positions.
build the team and then hand the reigns over to next year's 'sure thing'.
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@walterwhite said:
Guy sounds like a fucking moron.
homo says what?
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I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
i'm advocating leaving it status quo, that's correct, at QB position until somewhere in the 3rd and we can get a guy that farmer sees gold in. i really doubt you are going to see us take a QB with our first pick and hopefully not our second either.
this draft is so deep at other positions of need that we can build that killer TEAM have all the pieces in place for a guy coming out next year.
do you really think the cleveland browns at this point just by adding a QB will make it to the playoffs next year? simple question. why not get a #2 CB? a tall sticky handed fast WR? an OT for the right side? a beast mode RB? a ball busting SS? another complimentary TE? and those are before people are either dumped or traded which means we'd have to add to those positions.
build the team and then hand the reigns over to next year's 'sure thing'.
Because even if we managed to hit on all those positions it wouldnt do as much as hitting on the QB position. I do believe that if we hit on a QB were a playoff team. I HIGHLY doubt that we'll be picking top 5 next year, and I also dont believe next years class of QB's are any better than this years. We need to be proactive in filling the most important position in the game and not just hang back and hope to get lucky by having some guy fall into our lap.i'm advocating leaving it status quo, that's correct, at QB position until somewhere in the 3rd and we can get a guy that farmer sees gold in. i really doubt you are going to see us take a QB with our first pick and hopefully not our second either.
this draft is so deep at other positions of need that we can build that killer TEAM have all the pieces in place for a guy coming out next year.
do you really think the cleveland browns at this point just by adding a QB will make it to the playoffs next year? simple question. why not get a #2 CB? a tall sticky handed fast WR? an OT for the right side? a beast mode RB? a ball busting SS? another complimentary TE? and those are before people are either dumped or traded which means we'd have to add to those positions.
build the team and then hand the reigns over to next year's 'sure thing'.
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Because even if we managed to hit on all those positions it wouldnt do as much as hitting on the QB position. I do believe that if we hit on a QB were a playoff team. I HIGHLY doubt that we'll be picking top 5 next year, and I also dont believe next years class of QB's are any better than this years. We need to be proactive in filling the most important position in the game and not just hang back and hope to get lucky by having some guy fall into our lap.i'm advocating leaving it status quo, that's correct, at QB position until somewhere in the 3rd and we can get a guy that farmer sees gold in. i really doubt you are going to see us take a QB with our first pick and hopefully not our second either.
this draft is so deep at other positions of need that we can build that killer TEAM have all the pieces in place for a guy coming out next year.
do you really think the cleveland browns at this point just by adding a QB will make it to the playoffs next year? simple question. why not get a #2 CB? a tall sticky handed fast WR? an OT for the right side? a beast mode RB? a ball busting SS? another complimentary TE? and those are before people are either dumped or traded which means we'd have to add to those positions.
build the team and then hand the reigns over to next year's 'sure thing'.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Because even if we managed to hit on all those positions it wouldnt do as much as hitting on the QB position. I do believe that if we hit on a QB were a playoff team. I HIGHLY doubt that we'll be picking top 5 next year, and I also dont believe next years class of QB's are any better than this years. We need to be proactive in filling the most important position in the game and not just hang back and hope to get lucky by having some guy fall into our lap.
i understand what you are saying but we disagree when you say this next year's class of QBs won't be any better than this years.
i'm not one who thinks that an undersized or skinny QB will last in this division. that's just my opinion. we already know farmer wants mariota (not that's he's some huge monolith either) but i would rather see him in orange and brown than any of these so-called top 3 or 4 guys from this year. and he wants him THAT bad he'll trade from a pool of picks from next year and possibly 2016. it's not like that's never been done before.
i mean are we ever going to address a #2 CB? how about the right side of the OL? a SS? those would be my top 3 picks right there in no special order.
but i'm the one that advocates that defense wins championships. i guess no one watched the super bowl this year.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Because even if we managed to hit on all those positions it wouldnt do as much as hitting on the QB position. I do believe that if we hit on a QB were a playoff team. I HIGHLY doubt that we'll be picking top 5 next year, and I also dont believe next years class of QB's are any better than this years. We need to be proactive in filling the most important position in the game and not just hang back and hope to get lucky by having some guy fall into our lap.
i understand what you are saying but we disagree when you say this next year's class of QBs won't be any better than this years.
i'm not one who thinks that an undersized or skinny QB will last in this division. that's just my opinion. we already know farmer wants mariota (not that's he's some huge monolith either) but i would rather see him in orange and brown than any of these so-called top 3 or 4 guys from this year. and he wants him THAT bad he'll trade from a pool of picks from next year and possibly 2016. it's not like that's never been done before.
i mean are we ever going to address a #2 CB? how about the right side of the OL? a SS? those would be my top 3 picks right there in no special order.
but i'm the one that advocates that defense wins championships. i guess no one watched the super bowl this year.
SS is Ward (I expect him back) and we have bigger problems than Gipson. I believe we'll address corner in free agency, but not the first round. Schwartz deserves another year but the guard positions need addressed big time. I think we'll go hard after Asamoah or another free agent guard and draft a guy in the first four rounds. Mariota and Winston will both go top 5 next year and I dont believe theyre anymore of a sure thing than whats available this year, IF Winston comes out. I personally think Manziel and Bridgewater are better than Mariota. Our first three picks should be QB, ILB, and either OG or WR depending on free agency.i understand what you are saying but we disagree when you say this next year's class of QBs won't be any better than this years.
i'm not one who thinks that an undersized or skinny QB will last in this division. that's just my opinion. we already know farmer wants mariota (not that's he's some huge monolith either) but i would rather see him in orange and brown than any of these so-called top 3 or 4 guys from this year. and he wants him THAT bad he'll trade from a pool of picks for next year and possibly 2016. it's not like that's never been done before.
i mean are we ever going to address a #2 CB? how about the right side of the OL? a SS? those would be my top 3 picks right there in no special order.
but i'm the one that advocates that defense wins championships. i guess no one watched the super bowl this year.
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At this point Bortles scares me but I generally agree. The more important question is, who would you take if all three were available?.@mike-h said:
I think the Browns should sit at four and take whatever QB falls, for what it's worth. After watching more Bortles, I think I'd be ok with any of the top three.
Teddy looks NFL ready, but it wouldn't be terrible to start with Hoyer.
I think trading up or down will happen somewhere still, but I agree after watching a lot of Bortles last night.
Manziel is still intriguing, but I can be happy with any of the three.
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If they don't get a QB this draft and improve some in other areas over next year they win 6 to 8 games they wont draft high enough to get a very likely to succeed QB...you gotta pull the trigger this year
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If they don't get a QB this draft and improve some in other areas over next year they win 6 to 8 games they wont draft high enough to get a very likely to succeed QB...you gotta pull the trigger this year
If they don't get a QB this draft and improve some in other areas over next year they win 6 to 8 games they wont draft high enough to get a very likely to succeed QB...you gotta pull the trigger this year
fine, let's find our guy in FA then. I prefer the route of building up an offense with a great line to entice elite talent to sign here. In 15 years I just haven't seen it working for us with the draft at that position. It's been painfully bad. If the line had protected Campbell as good as it did Weeden the year before, we probalby would have won the division.
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So I just read from page 2 of this thread after taking some time off from here due to the whole coaching limbo depressing shit everyone was spewing and focused more on NBA but now I'm back with combine/draft time right around the corner. I've been a Manziel supporter since last year, but, as much as it pains me to say this, I do have to side with Mik's view of this draft, despite how much of a pretentious asshole he is. If we do take a QB this year I'd prefer it to be Manziel as I'm not big on Bridgewater and I don't believe we have the personnel (strong run game) to allow Bortles to flourish in his first couple of years (ala Big Ben.)
I'd rather attempt to get a deal in place to where if Clowney isn't there at 4 we can trade down with another team for their 1st rounder while also picking up another 1st rounder next year to allow us to fill out our team completely and then having all the ammo necessary (if needed) to draft a Winston or Hundley next year. Granted I think both will need a legit running game to succeed off the bat but we can make that happen if we draft correctly this year. While I might have an opinion on QB I won't pretend I have even the slightest clue as to what guard or tackle should be taken in this year's draft although I know enough to know both are needed (TCPO you seem to be the go to guy on these types of queries.) Obviously a RB or two would be needed as well.
We have enough talent to compete, with the right QB, next year but one more year of stocking talent and having the ammo to move where ever is needed to pick our QB of choice next year would set us up for sustained success.
Granted, worst case I can fall back on my Thunder or Cardinals (baseball) so I might not have as much riding on the Browns success as my sports salvation as most Clevelander's/ Ex-Clevelander's here, so I can think in more of a long term type of thinking. However both of those franchises have taken a long term view approach in their player development and it's worked out pretty well for both. They might not have won it all last year, but they've been in the thick of it.
(Oh and where's my where's my mid season credit for dominating our fantasy basketball league so far this year? I've punted FT% and TO and still am sporting a 7 point lead. Plus Zombo I think you owe me for that Drummond for Calderon trade. You've moved up from about 10th to 5th since that trade.)
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So I just read from page 2 of this thread after taking some time off from here due to the whole coaching limbo depressing shit everyone was spewing and focused more on NBA but now I'm back with combine/draft time right around the corner. I've been a Manziel supporter since last year, but, as much as it pains me to say this, I do have to side with Mik's view of this draft, despite how much of a pretentious asshole he is. If we do take a QB this year I'd prefer it to be Manziel as I'm not big on Bridgewater and I don't believe we have the personnel (strong run game) to allow Bortles to flourish in his first couple of years (ala Big Ben.)
I'd rather attempt to get a deal in place to where if Clowney isn't there at 4 we can trade down with another team for their 1st rounder while also picking up another 1st rounder next year to allow us to fill out our team completely and then having all the ammo necessary (if needed) to draft a Winston or Hundley next year. Granted I think both will need a legit running game to succeed off the bat but we can make that happen if we draft correctly this year. While I might have an opinion on QB I won't pretend I have even the slightest clue as to what guard or tackle should be taken in this year's draft although I know enough to know both are needed (TCPO you seem to be the go to guy on these types of queries.) Obviously a RB or two would be needed as well.
We have enough talent to compete, with the right QB, next year but one more year of stocking talent and having the ammo to move where ever is needed to pick our QB of choice next year would set us up for sustained success.
Granted, worst case I can fall back on my Thunder or Cardinals (baseball) so I might not have as much riding on the Browns success as my sports salvation as most Clevelander's/ Ex-Clevelander's here, so I can think in more of a long term type of thinking. However both of those franchises have taken a long term view approach in their player development and it's worked out pretty well for both. They might not have won it all last year, but they've been in the thick of it.
(Oh and where's my where's my mid season credit for dominating our fantasy basketball league so far this year? I've punted FT% and TO and still am sporting a 7 point lead. Plus Zombo I think you owe me for that Drummond for Calderon trade. You've moved up from about 10th to 5th since that trade.)
Plus Zombo I think you owe me for that Drummond for Calderon trade. You've moved up from about 10th to 5th since that trade.)
That's you?
Every year I make one trade that looks benign on the surface but really helps my team (Baseball and Basketball leagues). I REALLY needed to start getting some shot blocks from my big men or I would stay in the cellar.
The only surprise about at the trade was that Rich4Eagle didn't didn't bitch about it and/or make fun of it. That kinda worried me.
Zombo
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So I just read from page 2 of this thread after taking some time off from here due to the whole coaching limbo depressing shit everyone was spewing and focused more on NBA but now I'm back with combine/draft time right around the corner. I've been a Manziel supporter since last year, but, as much as it pains me to say this, I do have to side with Mik's view of this draft, despite how much of a pretentious asshole he is. If we do take a QB this year I'd prefer it to be Manziel as I'm not big on Bridgewater and I don't believe we have the personnel (strong run game) to allow Bortles to flourish in his first couple of years (ala Big Ben.)
I'd rather attempt to get a deal in place to where if Clowney isn't there at 4 we can trade down with another team for their 1st rounder while also picking up another 1st rounder next year to allow us to fill out our team completely and then having all the ammo necessary (if needed) to draft a Winston or Hundley next year. Granted I think both will need a legit running game to succeed off the bat but we can make that happen if we draft correctly this year. While I might have an opinion on QB I won't pretend I have even the slightest clue as to what guard or tackle should be taken in this year's draft although I know enough to know both are needed (TCPO you seem to be the go to guy on these types of queries.) Obviously a RB or two would be needed as well.
We have enough talent to compete, with the right QB, next year but one more year of stocking talent and having the ammo to move where ever is needed to pick our QB of choice next year would set us up for sustained success.
Granted, worst case I can fall back on my Thunder or Cardinals (baseball) so I might not have as much riding on the Browns success as my sports salvation as most Clevelander's/ Ex-Clevelander's here, so I can think in more of a long term type of thinking. However both of those franchises have taken a long term view approach in their player development and it's worked out pretty well for both. They might not have won it all last year, but they've been in the thick of it.
(Oh and where's my where's my mid season credit for dominating our fantasy basketball league so far this year? I've punted FT% and TO and still am sporting a 7 point lead. Plus Zombo I think you owe me for that Drummond for Calderon trade. You've moved up from about 10th to 5th since that trade.)
So I just read from page 2 of this thread after taking some time off from here due to the whole coaching limbo depressing shit everyone was spewing and focused more on NBA but now I'm back with combine/draft time right around the corner. I've been a Manziel supporter since last year, but, as much as it pains me to say this, I do have to side with Mik's view of this draft, despite how much of a pretentious asshole he is. If we do take a QB this year I'd prefer it to be Manziel as I'm not big on Bridgewater and I don't believe we have the personnel (strong run game) to allow Bortles to flourish in his first couple of years (ala Big Ben.)
I'd rather attempt to get a deal in place to where if Clowney isn't there at 4 we can trade down with another team for their 1st rounder while also picking up another 1st rounder next year to allow us to fill out our team completely and then having all the ammo necessary (if needed) to draft a Winston or Hundley next year. Granted I think both will need a legit running game to succeed off the bat but we can make that happen if we draft correctly this year. While I might have an opinion on QB I won't pretend I have even the slightest clue as to what guard or tackle should be taken in this year's draft although I know enough to know both are needed (TCPO you seem to be the go to guy on these types of queries.) Obviously a RB or two would be needed as well.
We have enough talent to compete, with the right QB, next year but one more year of stocking talent and having the ammo to move where ever is needed to pick our QB of choice next year would set us up for sustained success.
Granted, worst case I can fall back on my Thunder or Cardinals (baseball) so I might not have as much riding on the Browns success as my sports salvation as most Clevelander's/ Ex-Clevelander's here, so I can think in more of a long term type of thinking. However both of those franchises have taken a long term view approach in their player development and it's worked out pretty well for both. They might not have won it all last year, but they've been in the thick of it.
(Oh and where's my where's my mid season credit for dominating our fantasy basketball league so far this year? I've punted FT% and TO and still am sporting a 7 point lead. Plus Zombo I think you owe me for that Drummond for Calderon trade. You've moved up from about 10th to 5th since that trade.)
I like your overall assessment. I agree but would only add I would take a 3rd or 4th round flyer on a QB in this draft. I think there are some nice gambles that will be available in those rounds in guys like Garopollo or Mettenberger.
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6'1" my a@@.
Dude measured at 5'11"
Bortles was measured TALLER than what he was listed.
I rather have a guy be upfront about things then lie..
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DO NOT DRAFT THIS GUY.
IT'S GOING TO SET US BACK FOR YEARS AGAIN!
GO Bridgewater or Bortle.
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Rumor going around that his dad didnt stop growing till 25. His hands are a half inch bigger than Bortles and he wears size 15 shoes. Theres a real possibility he grows 2 more inches.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Rumor going around that his dad didnt stop growing till 25. His hands are a half inch bigger than Bortles and he wears size 15 shoes. Theres a real possibility he grows 2 more inches.
hahaha.
You got to be kidding me?!?!?!
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There's a rumor going around that his great grandpappy could eat an entire deer without chewing. There's a real possibility he's part snake.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Lol at milde using the duke game as an example for analysis.
Duke? Really? Lol.....
Each guy has things they do well....things they need to work on. Depends simply on the fit with our offense.
But to prop up Jff against duke? Gotta be the weakest pro Jonny argument I've seen....
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