Cleveland/Pittsburgh
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So they're basically the same, Cleveland's just a little bigger. Gottit.
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So they're basically the same, Cleveland's just a little bigger. Gottit.
Actually, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are far more similar from a "feel" point of view. Primarily because they are both River/hills towns. where Cleveland is flatter with the big lake at the front door.
Also, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are nearly the same population both in the city proper and Metro area. Greater Cleveland has about a million more than each of them.
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So, the dude really wanted to go there, so we will go there. Here is the comparison of Cleveland and Pittsburgh from a wide variety of sources, some objective, some subjective:
1. Lets first note a few things about population: The Greater Cleveland area (Core statistical area) has a current population of about 3.5 million people. The Greater Pittsburgh area has a population of about 2.6 million people.
Currently, Cleveland has a population of 395,000. Pittsburgh has a population of about 306,000.
At their peaks, both in the 1950s Cleveland had high of 914,000 population. Pittsburgh's peak was 676,000. Both are now less than half that peak now. While each Metro area population hasn't gone down much, there has been a lot of flight to suburbs for both cities.
So here we go on comparisons of various areas. I am sure other things could be thrown in:
A. Unemployment rate: Pittsburgh's is slightlyy lower than Cleveland's.
B. Crime Rate: Cleveland's is slightly higher
C. Cost of Living: Cleveland's is lower
D. Diverse Terrain: With all of its hills Pittsburgh's terrain is more diverse
E. Distinct neighborhoods: because of that terrain, Pittsburgh's neighborhoods are more distinct.
F. Congestion: that terrain also contributes to a more congested traffic pattern for Pittsburgh
G. Urban Decay: because Cleveland at its peak had a quarter million more residents, it has suffered more urban decay with the loss of that citizenry.
H. Population loss: While Cleveland lost a lot of population in the 60s/70s/80s, Pittsburgh has actually had a higher rate of population loss since the 1990 census.
I. Weather: While Cleveland gets more snow than Pittsburgh, it also gets more sun. Cleveland has a higher percentage of sunny days than Pittsburgh, but also gets on average a few more inches of snow.
J. Geography: Purely subjective whether one likes the hills and rivers of Pittsburgh or the flatter land and the Great Lake of Erie that Cleveland has.
K. Diverse Ethnicity: Cleveland. Cleveland has a higher percentage of various minorities. Pittsburgh has been more homogenous (i.e. whiter).
L. Walkability: Pittsburgh with its tighter neighborhoods and terrain is considered more walkable (if you don't mind hills). Cleveland has been more spread out on flatter land.
M. Downtown Shopping. Pittsburgh has retained more of its larger downtown commercial retail stores than Cleveland.
N. Downtown nightlife. From what I gather it is about even. Neither city is bustling with downtown nightlife. Cleveland's adjacent Warehouse district may give it a slight edge if any.
O. Transportation: by all reports Cleveland has by far the better transit system with the Rapid etc.
P. Parks: Cleveland with its Emerald Necklace and Cuyahoga Valley NP takes this category....but Pittsburgh downtown parks may be better than Cleveland's downtown parks.
Q. Healthcare: With the Cleveland Clinic being one of the top 2 or 3 medical institutions in the nation this category goes to Cleveland....(though I understand that there is a very fine facility in Pittsburgh)
R. One source I read said that Cleveland is far less homophobic than Pittsburgh...for what that's worth.
S. Inner ring suburbs. Cleveland's inner ring suburbs (Lakewood/Cleve Hts/Shaker Hts./ Euclid/Parma) are more "well established" for whatever that means.
T. Arts/Culture:
..1. Cleveland Art Museum on of Top 5 in nation
..2. Pittsburgh Ballet a premier, probably Top 10 company.
..3. Cleveland Playhouse Square Theater District one of the tops outside of NY/LA/Chic, plus they have the Cleveland Playhouse which has produced many fine and famous actors give Cleveland the edge here....but Pittsburgh's Cultural District is improving.
..4. Cleveland Symphony Orchestra top 1 or 2 in nation
5. The cities are about equal in terms of things like Science Centers/Natural History Museums/Children's museums/Boat Tours/Zoos/Aquariuams/Trolley Tours/Brewerys/Casinos/History Museums/Auto Museums/Markets....Pitt. has something comparable tot he Westside market/Gallerys/Festivals
..6. Rock N Roll Hall of Fame is unique for Cleveland
..7. Cleveland has more "water born Museums" like the USS Cod and the Mather Steamship.
..8. Pittsburgh has Andy Warhol Museum
..9. Pittsburgh has the Incline which is a fairly unique attraction.
.10. Cleveland has The Christmas Story House and the Superman House.
11. Cleveland has Cedar Point nearby, Pittsburgh has Kennywood.
So, a lot of differences.....but a lot of similarities. One place is a little better here, the other a little better there.
R. One source I read said that Cleveland is far less homophobic than Pittsburgh...for what that's worth.
Never would have guessed that after reading this forum.
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Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
Who really gives a fuck what you think? Why are you even here? I was hoping since we hadn't heard from you in awhile that maybe a yeast infection had did you in. I also have to say in quickly looking through that list of the Nat Geo top 25 from 2012 whoever picked Pittsburgh above the other 24 was either poor, afraid of flying, stupid or any combination of the three. I mean seriously look at the list http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/best-trips-2012/ Has anyone ever woke up one day and said "Hey I have some vacation time I think I will take a vacation to Pittsburgh". umm answer hell no.
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Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
No one forced you to read it dickhead...See folks? Herein this douche waited for a thread about Pittsburgh, Just so he can run his mouth. Again,he manages to expose himself as a troll just waiting to jab back and whine. It's His fucking M.O. He knows it,We know it. Your not fooling anyone Mr Dorkus. You're becomming so predictable it's become shameful. I knew soon as I read this thread you would get Diarrhea of the mouth (Like you always do). Instead of putting up links and facts. He attacks Gipper. Now we all know Gipper can defend himself quite well. But im sure a respected professional like Gipper is not gonna post fictitious information, when you consider the scope of intellect it takes to accomplish what he does as a judiciary litigant. Sorry Vag. But you whiffed mightily on this one...As always. Amazing...for someone like you..Who has never added one shred of substance on this board. Your wife must have a blast butt fucking you night in. and night out. Then laughs all they way to Walmart, then laughs even harder when shes swiping your credit card.
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There's some very nice places to live around Cleveland.
The city overall has some nice food, entertainment, etc. Walking around downtown is pretty safe. Just some of the near sides can get bad, especially the east. That's like most cities though.
I like the mild Cleveland traffic compared to other bigger cities. Rush hour is still annoying, but much worse in some other cities I've been to.
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Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
Who really gives a fuck what you think? Why are you even here? I was hoping since we hadn't heard from you in awhile that maybe a yeast infection had did you in. I also have to say in quickly looking through that list of the Nat Geo top 25 from 2012 whoever picked Pittsburgh above the other 24 was either poor, afraid of flying, stupid or any combination of the three. I mean seriously look at the list http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/best-trips-2012/ Has anyone ever woke up one day and said "Hey I have some vacation time I think I will take a vacation to Pittsburgh". umm answer hell no.
Who really gives a fuck what you think? Why are you even here? I was hoping since we hadn't heard from you in awhile that maybe a yeast infection had did you in. I also have to say in quickly looking through that list of the Nat Geo top 25 from 2012 whoever picked Pittsburgh above the other 24 was either poor, afraid of flying, stupid or any combination of the three. I mean seriously look at the list http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/best-trips-2012/ Has anyone ever woke up one day and said "Hey I have some vacation time I think I will take a vacation to Pittsburgh". umm answer hell no.
ROTFLMAO- that's the only US city on that list, like San Fran, Seattle, Chicago, or even Kansas City don't rate? How much did they have to pay that writer? Or was he on a serious drug binge when he wrote it? I see Shittsburgh rates slightly ahead of Ulan Bator in Outer Mongolia as a destination trip, hey Vag- why not head over there- and don't come back.
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A natural setting that rivals Lisbon and San Francisco he writes. Has this guy ever even been there? The downtown is ok. The rest is a trailer park on the side of an uninteresting mediocre mountain.
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R. One source I read said that Cleveland is far less homophobic than Pittsburgh...for what that's worth.
Never would have guessed that after reading this forum.
Never would have guessed that after reading this forum.
If you want a gay neeked football player looking at you neekid in the shower that's on you.Ill pass..Wv is worse than Cleveland about trying to keep the guys with the girls...I heard that song Lola before.Used to listen to it on MMS
I never let it rub off on me like some others have
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Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
Lol @ this thread. It wasnt long ago that cleveland was in the top 5 for worst cities in the united states. Pittsburgh was recently ranked number 2 for upward mobility behind salt lake. Its been voted most livable city several times in the last 15 years and national geographic rated at top 25 destination in the world just a year or so ago. It was also voted "most gay" friendly not long ago so the homophobia comment is incorrect. I also love that this is all gipper opinion. What a stupid fvcking thread.
Again, it is all showing your own bias. Cleveland has also been ranked in those "most livable citys" polls. They kinda rotate those things.
As for Top 25 destinations in the world? Uh, no. Tell me one thing about Peetown that would attract say an international visitor. At least Cleveland has the RRHOF.
As for this being my opinion....no again. Some of these are just statistics non opinion....or they are rankings done by other entities. Forbes, etc. And what is opinion is not mine, but what I garnered from a whole bunch of different sources. Like the homophobic thing. The couple of sites...yes opinion sites...I saw had opinions on there from gays about how homophobic things are there. But maybe you are right, maybe somewhere someone else had a different opinon.
Besides, if you think this is all just my opinion, then you have to give me credit for being kind to Pittsburgh in a lot of these categories....as, if you would note, Pisstown gets the edge in as many areas as Cleveland does.
Which causes me to ask: did you actually read my post?
Of those areas that I gave Cleveland had the edge in 10 and Pittsburgh in 8. So it you said that Pisstown is less homophobic that would make it a tie.
So, Vag....just to satisfy you...as apparently it is the most important factor here for you, I will let you feel more comfortable living in Pittsburgh and let you claim the title of being less homophobic.
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Just close the thread already. He is trolling and you all are falling for it.
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Just close the thread already. He is trolling and you all are falling for it.
Just close the thread already. He is trolling and you all are falling for it.
I started the thread, so don't worry about it.
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Those on the Cleveland side of the fence see there is no difference in the two, and listen to the facts. Pittsburghers insist it is somehow better, having delusions, despite the facts. Typical, as this is how each view the sports teams as well.
It's all a matter of preference. Personally I hate the hills and roads of PA. Houses built on steep inclines with screwed up outdoor living space. It's a major pain to commute about the city. But that is my opinion. Some people probably like that, although I can't understand why.
In my youth I visited Pittsburgh far more than Cleveland, because of my location. But in my adult years, Cleveland by far more. So much so that I know a lot more about it, when comparing the two. Expanding to the greater area, I've been to the Lorain International Festival and in the boat parade of lights on a couple occasions. In Cleveland Hts they have historic Little Italy, and the neat shops near the Case Western college. I've been to the Cleveland Playhouse. There's a lot of culture in Cleveland.
vs Pittsburgh...I don't know if there is as much culture. Been to the Pittsburgh Public Theater. Been to conventions over at the Sheraton in Station Square, as well as the nightlife there as well. Really when it comes this stuff it's all the same. Culturally it seems Cleveland has more. In it's history, immigrants from all over the world moved into the area, being a Great Lake port city, if you will. Pittsburgh...well there's a reason they call the uneducated and uncouth hillbillies and hilljacks.
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Good synopsis Gipper....as a Pitt native with family in Youngstown/ctown/findly, I can agree with the premise as written.
Much of Pitt is a total shithole.....some is really awesome. Most of the people are complete douxhebags....see Mr yeast infection. Reality is, both cities are crumbling shells of their former glory. But I like it here....in the burbs. I have only 1 neighbor in sight, 2 acres with a small quiet home, and only 20 minutes from downtown. Most of downtown is a hood though....
As vags behavior suggests, most of the hicks here have an inferiority complex. Sure....Pitt prides itself on sports, mainly because there's little else to be proud of. The city's broke and corrupt, and the average persons wage here is so low that there will never be enough tax money to correct the issues. About 65% of the bridges here are structurally deficient, many of which are close to falling down. There are water main breaks almost everyday, and the roads are literally sliding down the hillsides they're built on.
Vag has really no idea....he doesn't even live here. I'm sure ctown has issues....lord knows my uncle complains about them daily. I don't see it as a competition..... every city I've been to/lived in were charming and shitty for their own reasons. To each their own.
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Like I said, in listing these items Cleveland and Pittsburgh each came out ahead in about the same number of areas.
And in about half of the things I mentioned I didn't even do a ranking or give an edge to either city.
e.g.: Pittsburgh has a notable "Pop Art" Musuem with the Andy Warhol Museum, where Cleveland's Art Museum is more traditional forms of art.
But Cleveland has the RRHOF, so that is its entry into the "Pop" category of things.
Both cities have very interesting sets of Bridges...but a lot of people don't know much about Cleveland's. Pittsburgh's are more apparent. But anyone who has taken a drive down Columbus Ave. in The Flats knows what I mean.
Once upon a time, with the Flats Cleveland could have been said to have had an edge in their Club/entertainment scene. But the Flats fizzled out for some reason. They tore everything down on the east side of the Flats. I know there was beginning to be a lot of trouble down there, and everything seemed to be turning into strip joints.
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Good synopsis Gipper....as a Pitt native with family in Youngstown/ctown/findly, I can agree with the premise as written.
Much of Pitt is a total shithole.....some is really awesome. Most of the people are complete douxhebags....see Mr yeast infection. Reality is, both cities are crumbling shells of their former glory. But I like it here....in the burbs. I have only 1 neighbor in sight, 2 acres with a small quiet home, and only 20 minutes from downtown. Most of downtown is a hood though....
As vags behavior suggests, most of the hicks here have an inferiority complex. Sure....Pitt prides itself on sports, mainly because there's little else to be proud of. The city's broke and corrupt, and the average persons wage here is so low that there will never be enough tax money to correct the issues. About 65% of the bridges here are structurally deficient, many of which are close to falling down. There are water main breaks almost everyday, and the roads are literally sliding down the hillsides they're built on.
Vag has really no idea....he doesn't even live here. I'm sure ctown has issues....lord knows my uncle complains about them daily. I don't see it as a competition..... every city I've been to/lived in were charming and shitty for their own reasons. To each their own.
Good synopsis Gipper....as a Pitt native with family in Youngstown/ctown/findly, I can agree with the premise as written.
Much of Pitt is a total shithole.....some is really awesome. Most of the people are complete douxhebags....see Mr yeast infection. Reality is, both cities are crumbling shells of their former glory. But I like it here....in the burbs. I have only 1 neighbor in sight, 2 acres with a small quiet home, and only 20 minutes from downtown. Most of downtown is a hood though....
As vags behavior suggests, most of the hicks here have an inferiority complex. Sure....Pitt prides itself on sports, mainly because there's little else to be proud of. The city's broke and corrupt, and the average persons wage here is so low that there will never be enough tax money to correct the issues. About 65% of the bridges here are structurally deficient, many of which are close to falling down. There are water main breaks almost everyday, and the roads are literally sliding down the hillsides they're built on.
Vag has really no idea....he doesn't even live here. I'm sure ctown has issues....lord knows my uncle complains about them daily. I don't see it as a competition..... every city I've been to/lived in were charming and shitty for their own reasons. To each their own.
Choco living out by Youngstown isn't living in Pittsburgh. The city is far from a sh.it hole and I lived there full time up until last April. I only moved to Columbus because of a business opportunity. Beyond that and in know I keep bringing this up but if pittsburgh only has its sports teams why exactly did national geographic vote it a top 25 destination globally? Nat Geo must really like the steelers. Lol
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Good synopsis Gipper....as a Pitt native with family in Youngstown/ctown/findly, I can agree with the premise as written.
Much of Pitt is a total shithole.....some is really awesome. Most of the people are complete douxhebags....see Mr yeast infection. Reality is, both cities are crumbling shells of their former glory. But I like it here....in the burbs. I have only 1 neighbor in sight, 2 acres with a small quiet home, and only 20 minutes from downtown. Most of downtown is a hood though....
As vags behavior suggests, most of the hicks here have an inferiority complex. Sure....Pitt prides itself on sports, mainly because there's little else to be proud of. The city's broke and corrupt, and the average persons wage here is so low that there will never be enough tax money to correct the issues. About 65% of the bridges here are structurally deficient, many of which are close to falling down. There are water main breaks almost everyday, and the roads are literally sliding down the hillsides they're built on.
Vag has really no idea....he doesn't even live here. I'm sure ctown has issues....lord knows my uncle complains about them daily. I don't see it as a competition..... every city I've been to/lived in were charming and shitty for their own reasons. To each their own.
Choco living out by Youngstown isn't living in Pittsburgh. The city is far from a sh.it hole and I lived there full time up until last April. I only moved to Columbus because of a business opportunity. Beyond that and in know I keep bringing this up but if pittsburgh only has its sports teams why exactly did national geographic vote it a top 25 destination globally? Nat Geo must really like the steelers. Lol
Choco living out by Youngstown isn't living in Pittsburgh. The city is far from a sh.it hole and I lived there full time up until last April. I only moved to Columbus because of a business opportunity. Beyond that and in know I keep bringing this up but if pittsburgh only has its sports teams why exactly did national geographic vote it a top 25 destination globally? Nat Geo must really like the steelers. Lol
Again...your fail epically...reread Choco's post again where he wrote "Pitt native with family in Youngstown/ctown/findly"
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Had to move to Columbus for a business opportunity? So what you're saying is, an Ohio city had more to offer you than your beloved Pittsburgh.
Seriously, in terms of things like economics, arts & entertainment, you can't place one town well above the other. You can't and be honest about it. Keeping it a little bit on topic to pro-sports, that's gotta be the biggest reason for the Browns/Steelers rivalry. Two cities in close proximity, both blue-collar manufacturing towns (that are now shells of their former selves in this regard) that love to see hard-nosed football.
One being next to a Great Lake and the other within the mountains and rivers of Appalachia gives them each their own unique look, but the core components like Gipper has covered keeps them quite alike. Rival fans may want to deny that, understandable, but it is what it is. Myself, I'll take the city by the lake any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. That PA town and its people smell bad.
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I had saturday off and took a trip to Beaver Falls Pennsylvania to visit the Beaver Brewing Company then went to eat at Hollywood Gardens. Everything about the trip was great and everyone we met was very pleasant. The beer itself was above average for a microbrew. Next morning had breakfast at a very eclectic place called waffles incaffeinated I believe in Rochester pa. Excellent food and nice folks.
I chose not to wear a Cleveland Browns Jersey.
WSS
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