Clowney just ran a 4.47
-
Mack fits on this team as an ILB. I mean I'm not adverse to taking him. I really don't compare him with CLowney cause they're two different cats. As 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE, c'mon now...Clowney hands down. There's more we can do with Clowney, we can move him around the line and at the OLB position. Mack is a stud but he's not gonna put his hands in the dirt in the NFL. Clowney has 15+ lbs on Mack and still was faster. If we had to pick between the two of them, because we already have Sheard and Kruger...maybe I would go with Mack. But only because of what we already have and we really need an ILB to play with DQ. It's a glaring hole. Pettine and the DC have to figure out what's going on with our OLB'ers and what kind of defense we're gonna put on next year. If we do alot of straight up 4-3 looks...gotta take Clowney and then think about trading one of our other OLB'ers after next year. Tough decision though, I like Mack. His elite coverage skills are really enticing and he'll probably be a mean blitzing ILB. Plus he's a big strong kid that can help DQ stop the run.
-
clowney said today he wishes that atlanta could find a way to trade up and draft him. now he wants to choose teams?
i know i was on his jock for a while but i gotta agree with cal. mack is projected as the best LB and DQ ain't no spring chicken.
clowney said today he wishes that atlanta could find a way to trade up and draft him. now he wants to choose teams?
i know i was on his jock for a while but i gotta agree with cal. mack is projected as the best LB and DQ ain't no spring chicken.
Yeah and Manziel was doing the same. Last week Clowney was saying Texas needs to draft him #1. This is all combine week bullshit. 'OF COURSE" none of those guys really wants to play for the perennial bottom feeding teams like the Browns. It's just a fact of life we have to deal with in the best of circumstances let alone the disgrace that's been ownership and FO for the last 15 years. Who wants to play for a fan base that's calling for the coaches job after 2 years or less? They'll only come here for the money which is what Kruger did, and I'm starting to think he may have gotten over on us.
-
clowney said today he wishes that atlanta could find a way to trade up and draft him. now he wants to choose teams?
i know i was on his jock for a while but i gotta agree with cal. mack is projected as the best LB and DQ ain't no spring chicken.
Yeah and Manziel was doing the same. Last week Clowney was saying Texas needs to draft him #1. This is all combine week bullshit. 'OF COURSE" none of those guys really wants to play for the perennial bottom feeding teams like the Browns. It's just a fact of life we have to deal with in the best of circumstances let alone the disgrace that's been ownership and FO for the last 15 years. Who wants to play for a fan base that's calling for the coaches job after 2 years or less? They'll only come here for the money which is what Kruger did, and I'm starting to think he may have gotten over on us.
Kruger didnt play bad. He was far more valuable in the run game than was expected, and although he didnt come up with a lot of stats, he was getting in the backfield. We improved big time in the pass rush dpmt and he was a big part of that (Bryant too when he was healthy). Also, if Kruger doesnt justify his payday, we can get rid of him for relatively cheap.Yeah and Manziel was doing the same. Last week Clowney was saying Texas needs to draft him #1. This is all combine week bullshit. 'OF COURSE" none of those guys really wants to play for the perennial bottom feeding teams like the Browns. It's just a fact of life we have to deal with in the best of circumstances let alone the disgrace that's been ownership and FO for the last 15 years. Who wants to play for a fan base that's calling for the coaches job after 2 years or less? They'll only come here for the money which is what Kruger did, and I'm starting to think he may have gotten over on us.
-
Kruger didnt play bad. He was far more valuable in the run game than was expected, and although he didnt come up with a lot of stats, he was getting in the backfield. We improved big time in the pass rush dpmt and he was a big part of that (Bryant too when he was healthy). Also, if Kruger doesnt justify his payday, we can get rid of him for relatively cheap.Yeah and Manziel was doing the same. Last week Clowney was saying Texas needs to draft him #1. This is all combine week bullshit. 'OF COURSE" none of those guys really wants to play for the perennial bottom feeding teams like the Browns. It's just a fact of life we have to deal with in the best of circumstances let alone the disgrace that's been ownership and FO for the last 15 years. Who wants to play for a fan base that's calling for the coaches job after 2 years or less? They'll only come here for the money which is what Kruger did, and I'm starting to think he may have gotten over on us.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Kruger didnt play bad. He was far more valuable in the run game than was expected, and although he didnt come up with a lot of stats, he was getting in the backfield. We improved big time in the pass rush dpmt and he was a big part of that (Bryant too when he was healthy). Also, if Kruger doesnt justify his payday, we can get rid of him for relatively cheap.
who's gonna take his contract? I'll agree he held up in the run game...but we can get someone to be stout in the run game for alot less than $8m. And I don't think he was that big a part of the rush. I would let his 4.5 sacks slide if he was double teamed the entire season...he wasn't, probably not even once actually. His outside rush is pathetic...all he can do is bullrush. It took 4 games before offensive line coaches figured out he was a one trick pony and had the tackles bracing for that one move. And he could never make them pay for that which to me was eye opening. I've gone on about this before so I'm not gonna rehash. Suffice to say I payed detailed attention to Kruger this year and exactly "how" he was trying to get through and around tackles. His leverage was awful doing anything but the bullrush. If he had logged 10 sacks...I probably wouldn't be talking about Clowney.
-
Clownery/Mack and Carr.
How bout Clowney/Mack and Bridgwater (trade up).
-
I hate the 225lb test...it's dumb and means absolutely nothing. It's been categorically proven to not test field strength. But guys who know they're draft stock may not be that high start training it up a year out and become combine stars. Guarantee you that Clowney wasn't specifically training his 225 until after the season ended. Everybody gushed about Margus Hunt last year and his 225 and 40 marks....where is he now? I have no idea, have heard nothing about him. Is he still on someone's roster? Did he get on the field once this year? Bjoern Werner put up 24 or 25 times, Ansah put it up like 22 or 23....Werner got major playing time on the Colts at the end of the year subbing in for Mathis. Ansah I beleive became the starting DE for the Lions somewhere midseason. The 225 means approx shit. WHen you have a bench behind you supporting you...you're not bringing your core into the lift, which is the basis of field strength. CLowney plays with some of the most explosive leverage I"ve ever seen. And a couple years in the NFL and he'll put up 30+ on the 225 too for whatever that means.
THat speed though cannot be taught. And he's not straight line either, he's fluid and can change direction.
I hate the 225lb test...it's dumb and means absolutely nothing. It's been categorically proven to not test field strength. But guys who know they're draft stock may not be that high start training it up a year out and become combine stars. Guarantee you that Clowney wasn't specifically training his 225 until after the season ended. Everybody gushed about Margus Hunt last year and his 225 and 40 marks....where is he now? I have no idea, have heard nothing about him. Is he still on someone's roster? Did he get on the field once this year? Bjoern Werner put up 24 or 25 times, Ansah put it up like 22 or 23....Werner got major playing time on the Colts at the end of the year subbing in for Mathis. Ansah I beleive became the starting DE for the Lions somewhere midseason. The 225 means approx shit. WHen you have a bench behind you supporting you...you're not bringing your core into the lift, which is the basis of field strength. CLowney plays with some of the most explosive leverage I"ve ever seen. And a couple years in the NFL and he'll put up 30+ on the 225 too for whatever that means.
THat speed though cannot be taught. And he's not straight line either, he's fluid and can change direction.
The point isn't to test field strength. It's to test muscular endurance.
It's a good way to determine who's a brute strength, one play push kind of guy and who's more of an every down athlete.
-
I hate the 225lb test...it's dumb and means absolutely nothing. It's been categorically proven to not test field strength. But guys who know they're draft stock may not be that high start training it up a year out and become combine stars. Guarantee you that Clowney wasn't specifically training his 225 until after the season ended. Everybody gushed about Margus Hunt last year and his 225 and 40 marks....where is he now? I have no idea, have heard nothing about him. Is he still on someone's roster? Did he get on the field once this year? Bjoern Werner put up 24 or 25 times, Ansah put it up like 22 or 23....Werner got major playing time on the Colts at the end of the year subbing in for Mathis. Ansah I beleive became the starting DE for the Lions somewhere midseason. The 225 means approx shit. WHen you have a bench behind you supporting you...you're not bringing your core into the lift, which is the basis of field strength. CLowney plays with some of the most explosive leverage I"ve ever seen. And a couple years in the NFL and he'll put up 30+ on the 225 too for whatever that means.
THat speed though cannot be taught. And he's not straight line either, he's fluid and can change direction.
The point isn't to test field strength. It's to test muscular endurance.
It's a good way to determine who's a brute strength, one play push kind of guy and who's more of an every down athlete.
The point isn't to test field strength. It's to test muscular endurance.
It's a good way to determine who's a brute strength, one play push kind of guy and who's more of an every down athlete.
But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
-
The point isn't to test field strength. It's to test muscular endurance.
It's a good way to determine who's a brute strength, one play push kind of guy and who's more of an every down athlete.
But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
overhead squats is what they need to do.But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
-
overhead squats is what they need to do.But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
overhead squats is what they need to do.
oh god, just asking for seperated shoulders..lol. Brutal exercise.
-
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
overhead squats is what they need to do.
oh god, just asking for seperated shoulders..lol. Brutal exercise.
Haha, I think thats why they dont do it. That would be a much better indicator of playing strength though.oh god, just asking for seperated shoulders..lol. Brutal exercise.
-
The point isn't to test field strength. It's to test muscular endurance.
It's a good way to determine who's a brute strength, one play push kind of guy and who's more of an every down athlete.
But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
I don't think you quite understand the statement "it's not meant to test field strength".
You can judge speed by watching game tape. You can judge lateral agility by watching game tape. The best judge of a player is by his game tape. So why even have a combine?
The point is to eliminate as many variables as possible and have these athletes perform the same workouts to get a measuring stick. It's not a perfect system, but it provides another measurable statistic other than film.
An ideal scenario would be to have them go up against a 335 LB. lineman 45 times, but that's not feasible.
-
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
-
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
i think the fact that the browns just cut DQ will prove you wrong.
-
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
i think the fact that the browns just cut DQ will prove you wrong.
i think the fact that the browns just cut DQ will prove you wrong.
I think the fact that Buffalo picked up kiko alonso - presumably with the help of their then-DC, Pettine and then-LB coach, O'Neill - in the second round shows that they are capable of picking up top tier talent at the position without necessarily spending a high draft pick on them. But I think unless we sign a big time ILB from the FA pool, it's shot up to number 2 or 3 on our list of needs.
-
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
haha. Ok. Youre wrong. Hes a great athlete who can excel at any LB position imo. Saying hes not a "fluid" enough athlete is bullshit when talking about a 3/4 MLB. The guy has the lower body strength to take on blockers, great instincts, his athletic ability would be off the charts for a MLB. He reminds me of Navarro Bowman. Hes viewed as an OLB because he is a great rusher around the edge, and could be great in that position also, and theres a bit more of a premium put on pass rushers.wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
-
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
wow, you guys who are saying Mack is a fit at ILB have no clue what you're talking about. He's not too small to play OLB, Mingo is 10 pounds lighter than he is.
Mack is a pass rusher, no matter where he goes 3-4/4-3/hybrid, doesn't matter, his primary job will be to blitz and get after the QB. However, he does have enough coverage ability to cover flats or shorter routes. But he's not a fluid enough athlete to be running with TEs 30 yards downfield. His absolute ideal position would be as a 3-4 OLB. However, like Von Miller, he has enough coverage ability to play OLB in a 4-3. He's versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 on passing down, probably could even play inside linebacker at times, or maybe even DT on obvious passing downs like Tuck or Everson Griffen in Minnesota. But he's not suited to play those positions regularily
Err, dudes fast, strong, and the right size. Can cover, tackle, attack, etc.
Don't really understand what you meant about the size. But if you look at guys like kuechly, kiko alonso, patrick Willis they're all very successful ILBs that are pretty much the same size or slightly smaller than Mack.
-
How was Mack passed over by all the bigger name schools and allowed to matriculate at Buffalo?
-
Haha, I think thats why they dont do it. That would be a much better indicator of playing strength though.oh god, just asking for seperated shoulders..lol. Brutal exercise.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Haha, I think thats why they dont do it. That would be a much better indicator of playing strength though.
It's way too technique oriented. If your hands aren't in the right spot on the bar, it's goin over once you dip into the movement. Great excercise, just not one I would want athletes doing as a requisite to their draft prospects....guys are gonna push it and get sloppy cause millions of dollars could be at stake. With disastrous consequences.
-
But it doesn't do that. Field strength/leverage is what is most crucial....knowing whether someone is an every down athlete is by looking at tape. Is he flat lining at the end of games? Mike Kudla benched 225 what, 45 times? And he was found out to not be an every down athlete. You can train the 225 up, which is what alot of guys do, and it translates nothing to the field. If you want to test these guys properly have them do an interval training routine where they have to do something to get their heart rate up and then lift some kind of weight. Heck, i think making the guys do ring pushups with weight on their back is a far better test of their core than bench pressing. A guy can train to bench 225 alot of times but still have a mediocre core, which means mediocre field strength.
I don't think you quite understand the statement "it's not meant to test field strength".
You can judge speed by watching game tape. You can judge lateral agility by watching game tape. The best judge of a player is by his game tape. So why even have a combine?
The point is to eliminate as many variables as possible and have these athletes perform the same workouts to get a measuring stick. It's not a perfect system, but it provides another measurable statistic other than film.
An ideal scenario would be to have them go up against a 335 LB. lineman 45 times, but that's not feasible.
.An ideal scenario would be to have them go up against a 335 LB. lineman 45 times, but that's not feasible.
You're on to something there though. Why they don't do this with the sleds I don't know since they all use em in practice since pee wee. Make these guys take a 300+lb sled and drive it over a predetermined distance for time...than make them sprint off to the sideline or something. That is a much better indicator of field strength than having your back supported by a bench...a dynamic that never comes into play on the field unless scouts are now interested in how quickly players can bench their way out from underneath a pile.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login