Jonathan Paul Manziel

hoorta

"I don't see how (Jaworski) could actually watch film and say what he says about Johnny. You break down Johnny's film, he puts up huge numbers against the best competition, like Alabama. He did this week in and week out in the SEC. Then you break down Blake Bortles. He had one good year. That was it. Teddy (Bridgewater) played in a really weak conference. He put up his numbers against bad competition.

"Johnny played in the best conference in the country. Add up all of the Alabama and Auburn guys he played against that are in the pros versus the pro guys Bortles or Bridgewater went against."

For some reason, it wouldn't let me quote the post. MY Guy is soooo much better. So what? Colt McCoy played against top competition too, and went nowhere in the pros. Ben Rothlisberger played against inferior competition, ditto Joe Flacco, didn't seem to hurt them much.

@mike-h said:
Good link Die Hard.

Flaherty has a lot to lose from making statements like that. Not sure he would say them if he wasn't confident in them, and just blow smoke.

We'll find out in September, won't we Mike? Though it is encouraging to note Johnny Football is aware if he runs like that in the NFL, he's going to get killed.

@walterwhite said:
I hope Manziel tears this league apart just to prove the haters wrong.

And if he lays a major egg? It will prove the haters right. WW, BTW, there's a difference between "hate" and question if the guy is worthy of a top choice in the coming draft. I don't "hate" Manziel, I do question if he's got the playing style to make an impact in the NFL. So yes, I "hate" the idea of drafting him high if that's what you mean.

miktoxic

he's 13 and gay, that's why he can fling around a word like 'hate' from being a wigga. haters to him are people that 'don't like' people for what they have or who they are.

another example of the misuse of the english language by young thugs.

Zombo

Tale of the tape:

Manziel

21 yo

5 '11 207 lb

4.68 Forty

Arm Strength: Can make all of the NFL throws

Accuracy: 68% in the NCAA

Hoyer

28 yo

6'2 215 lb

5.05 Forty

Arm Strength: can make all of the NFL throws

Accuracy: 59% in the NFL

Internship & Influences:

Manziel

2 years starting QB Texas A&M (Kevin Summelin)

Hoyer

4 years Michigan State, 2+ years starting (Mark Dantonio, John Smith)

3 years New England Patriots (Bill Belichick, Tom Brady)

1 year Arizona Cardinals, 1 start (Ken Wisenhut)

1 year Cleveland Browns, 3 starts (Rob Chudzinski, Norv Turner)

Do we want to spend the #4 overall to replace Hoyer with Manziel?

Or do we give Hoyer a year to show what he's got and draft a QB later in the draft that we don't have to commit to right away?

And if you pass on a QB at #4 (for, say, Watkins), then when do you pull the trigger on a QB ... Derek Carr in the second round? Or take a stab at 4th or 5th rounder and draft a QB high in 2015 if Hoyer doesn't pan out?

Critical decision for Farmer & Pettine.

Zombo

PoeticG

I have almost 100% percent confidence in them... that they will find a way to fuck it up.

MLD Woody

no johnny football

please no

miktoxic

Zombo said:

Tale of the tape:

Manziel

21 yo

5 '11 207 lb

4.68 Forty

Arm Strength: Can make all of the NFL throws

Accuracy: 68% in the NCAA

Hoyer

28 yo

6'2 215 lb

5.05 Forty

Arm Strength: can make all of the NFL throws

Accuracy: 59% in the NFL

Internship & Influences:

Manziel

2 years starting QB Texas A&M (Kevin Summelin)

Hoyer

4 years Michigan State, 2+ years starting (Mark Dantonio, John Smith)

3 years New England Patriots (Bill Belichick, Tom Brady)

1 year Arizona Cardinals, 1 start (Ken Wisenhut)

1 year Cleveland Browns, 3 starts (Rob Chudzinski, Norv Turner)

Do we want to spend the #4 overall to replace Hoyer with Manziel?

Or do we give Hoyer a year to show what he's got and draft a QB later in the draft that we don't have to commit to right away?

And if you pass on a QB at #4 (for, say, Watkins), then when do you pull the trigger on a QB ... Derek Carr in the second round? Or take a stab at 4th or 5th rounder and draft a QB high in 2015 if Hoyer doesn't pan out?

Critical decision for Farmer & Pettine.

Zombo

i'm one that goes against the grain and isn't so concerned with drafting a QB this year until the later rounds and grab someone with second pick in the third like fales. i would seriously have hoyer start and see if he can get the job done. if not we will have drafted enough talent this year (hopefully they would all pan out) that we could almost put all our eggs in one basket and go for one of the top tier QBs next year.

@poeticg said:
I have almost 100% percent confidence in them... that they will find a way to fuck it up.

dude, you are seriously a fucking idiot. how long have they been on the job? they hurt your feelings cuz they cut DQ. and they didn't franchise ward. would you rather have them franchise ward than mack?

well at least you have something else to cry about now rather than the same old TR bitchfest we usually get from you.

LogicIsForSquares

If he plays a game similar to Flutie then I am down. You just never know.

LogicIsForSquares

@poeticg said:
I have almost 100% percent confidence in them... that they will find a way to fuck it up.

Hopefully they draft Derek Carr so he can crumple under pressure. I think that will be a good use of a draft pick.

miktoxic

if he falls to 26 then i won't 'hate' the pick.

cuwoohio

@miktoxic said:

if he falls to 26 then i won't 'hate' the pick.

That will never happen. If he lost and arm (either one) he would still go higher that 26. I don't know if any of the big 3 are worth a top 5 pick,

but if we want one, we better get him at 4 or hgher.

miktoxic

don't want any of them that bad.

personally i'd pick evans and try to move up and get gilbert with our first 2 picks.

Flyin J

I like option C, use the 4 pick on whoever they deem the best QB in this draft class, and let Hoyer groom him.

Zombo

Well, there won't be any *grooming" ... But, yes, if Farmer is high on Bortles or Bridgewater at 4 ... Then grab them.

I used Manziel in the comparison because he seems to be gathering a gay-like following. All the things the Manziel Mos seem to like about him, I think we saw out of Hoyer last year ... Without the daredevil running.

Personally I like Bridgewater best ... But it seems that none of the four best prospects are QBs ... And we have the fourth pick.

Z

miktoxic

hoyer hasn't played enough himself to groom anyone. that'd have to been done by one of the coaches or a vet we bring in.

i'm just wondering now that you mention that, what we are going to do with weeden and campbell. maybe they are going to try and throw weeden in some type of trade package come draft day. i know he's got money due him but i would cut him out like a cancerous tumor.

Flyin J

Sure Hoyer could "Groom". Meaning a veteran guy showing a rookie the ropes. Full out competition in camp though.

Zombo

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Sure Hoyer could "Groom". Meaning a veteran guy showing a rookie the ropes. Full out competition in camp though.

Fuck the ropes, show him the bench.

Joe Montana wouldn't give Steve Young the time of day, and he turned out OK. Fuck grooming. Unless you want to bring in Rex Grossman as a third stringer and let him "groom". Grooming is for coaches and washed up hasbeens. ... Not for competive guys who want to start in their own right.

Z

jcam222

@miktoxic said:

hoyer hasn't played enough himself to groom anyone. that'd have to been done by one of the coaches or a vet we bring in.

i'm just wondering now that you mention that, what we are going to do with weeden and campbell. maybe they are going to try and throw weeden in some type of trade package come draft day. i know he's got money due him but i would cut him out like a cancerous tumor.

Hoyer would make an excellent groom for a new QB even if he wasn't that great on the field. The things he has been taught in his years in the NFL would be very valuable. Whether he has started a lot of games or not he is a vet. Hell plenty of QB coaches exist that groom QB's and never started a game in the NFL.

Zombo

Grooming is gay. I hope Hoyer humiliates the rook on the practice field. That's how you learn. Groom this.

Z

jcam222

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I like option C, use the 4 pick on whoever they deem the best QB in this draft class, and let Hoyer groom him.

I like option D, pick the best athlete on the board at 4 and if it is not a QB get a QB later when the value of the pick matches the talent of the player. Very few people agree but this is one of the best drafts ever to trade down in. If Clowney falls and we could trade to 6 with Atlanta (to get CLowney) and then 8 with Minnesota (to pick up a QB) we could likely pick 3 times in the first round and get starters on every pick. We would likely still have 1 or 2 2nd rounders left after that.

bbedward

QBs will communicate and help each other. But at the end of the day, Hoyer wants the coaches, fans, and league to think he's the best man for the job.

If Hoyer came into camp with the mentality: I'm just going to give everything to help this new guy succeed. I'd be a little worried, from everything he said so far it seems Hoyers mentality is that he wants to be the guy - not groom the guy.

It's not like Hoyer needs to teach the dude anything. Both learning a new system so compare notes - be the best you can be on the field.