Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Nobody but a dumbass would argue the fact rg3 was a better college qb than Johnny. He was bigger stonger fast, better thrower. At that time I was against bringing rg3 to Cleveland. In college he was fast than 95% of the d on the field, in the nfl it's maybe 30%. Johnny is is slower, smaller, weaker, and less arm strength. So what would make anyone think bring Johnny to Cleveland would be smart. Kyle has seen this before and I would imagine is telling everyone this is a bad ideal. Running qbs won't and don't last. Johnny is run first. Not to mention to pressure it puts on a front line. And finally to put it frankly if they do take Johnny football I'm out fuck the browns I hope they move again, because that shows me they have no interest in winning only filling a few seats. But I think there smarter than that. Mel kipper can eat a dick too.
JF reads the field ten times better coming out of college
JF reads the field ten times better coming out of college
Sure, that's why he takes of running with receivers wide open.
And when he farts, it knocks defensive ends off their feet.
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JF reads the field ten times better coming out of college
Sure, that's why he takes of running with receivers wide open.
And when he farts, it knocks defensive ends off their feet.
Sure, that's why he takes of running with receivers wide open.
And when he farts, it knocks defensive ends off their feet.
You seen that once in a highlight play on sportscenter and now it's embedded in your brain on playback. Go watch a full game
1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico -
Not sure why everyone else is convinced he's a bust.
There seems to be a ton of us that think he's a good player but not at #4.
How many guys think he is a bust on this board ... one?
Zombo
Zombo said:
There seems to be a ton of us that think he's a good player but not at #4.
How many guys think he is a bust on this board ... one?
Zombo
Judging from the "never in a million years", "fuck no", and "are you regarded"'s, if say there's upwards of five people who claim he's a bust.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
Personally, I'm in the camp that a QB, even of mild talent, can improve a team much more than any other positional player. Not that I necessarily believe that person to be Manziel.
I can see wanting to get the most value for your pick in terms of trading back but if you can't get a trade, then nut up and take the guy anyway, even if he's considered a reach.
I believe this about any pick in the draft, not just the first round picks. There's no such thing as a reach if you believe that guy to be a gamechanger. If he turns out to suck, blame your scouting department because they fucked up.
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Zombo said:
There seems to be a ton of us that think he's a good player but not at #4.
How many guys think he is a bust on this board ... one?
Zombo
Judging from the "never in a million years", "fuck no", and "are you regarded"'s, if say there's upwards of five people who claim he's a bust.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
Personally, I'm in the camp that a QB, even of mild talent, can improve a team much more than any other positional player. Not that I necessarily believe that person to be Manziel.
I can see wanting to get the most value for your pick in terms of trading back but if you can't get a trade, then nut up and take the guy anyway, even if he's considered a reach.
I believe this about any pick in the draft, not just the first round picks. There's no such thing as a reach if you believe that guy to be a gamechanger. If he turns out to suck, blame your scouting department because they fucked up.
Judging from the "never in a million years", "fuck no", and "are you regarded"'s, if say there's upwards of five people who claim he's a bust.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
Personally, I'm in the camp that a QB, even of mild talent, can improve a team much more than any other positional player. Not that I necessarily believe that person to be Manziel.
I can see wanting to get the most value for your pick in terms of trading back but if you can't get a trade, then nut up and take the guy anyway, even if he's considered a reach.
I believe this about any pick in the draft, not just the first round picks. There's no such thing as a reach if you believe that guy to be a gamechanger. If he turns out to suck, blame your scouting department because they fucked up.
At his point in time, I am sensing four bonafide "difference makers" who have "can't miss" written on them: Clowney, Robinson, Mack and Watkins. Since we are fortunate to have the fourth pick, I think we need to come away with one of them. And two of them, Mack and Watkins, are at positions of deep need. It is almost a no-brainer to me.
I "like" the quarterbacks, but I am not "in love" with them. If the Browns feel the same way, then they certainly should grab a stud at 4 and then see what develops.
If, however, they think one of these QBs is "their guy", then by all means they should grab him at four, because it is the most important position by far.
The quarterbacks all look like 50/50 propositions to be franchise QBs to me, maybe Bridgewaer 60/40. Which means there is a good likelihood that one or two of them will be franchise QBs and we will pass which could lead our troubled franchise to more criticism, a la 2005 Winslow over Ben.
But there are other ways to skin a cat. None of the four teams in the Championship Games drafted their QB in the first round. You got Hoyer, you bring in Grossman and draft a rookie, later in round one, or in round two or three ... and you see what you've got. There will be other drafts, other Qbs. Maybe a 40% shot that Derek Carr is a franchise QB at 26 has more value than a 60% chance Teddy Twatwater is a franchise QB at #4 ... if it means you are getting Sammy Watkins or one of the other three studs of this draft*.
Zombo
*IMO
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Judging from the "never in a million years", "fuck no", and "are you regarded"'s, if say there's upwards of five people who claim he's a bust.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
Personally, I'm in the camp that a QB, even of mild talent, can improve a team much more than any other positional player. Not that I necessarily believe that person to be Manziel.
I can see wanting to get the most value for your pick in terms of trading back but if you can't get a trade, then nut up and take the guy anyway, even if he's considered a reach.
I believe this about any pick in the draft, not just the first round picks. There's no such thing as a reach if you believe that guy to be a gamechanger. If he turns out to suck, blame your scouting department because they fucked up.
At his point in time, I am sensing four bonafide "difference makers" who have "can't miss" written on them: Clowney, Robinson, Mack and Watkins. Since we are fortunate to have the fourth pick, I think we need to come away with one of them. And two of them, Mack and Watkins, are at positions of deep need. It is almost a no-brainer to me.
I "like" the quarterbacks, but I am not "in love" with them. If the Browns feel the same way, then they certainly should grab a stud at 4 and then see what develops.
If, however, they think one of these QBs is "their guy", then by all means they should grab him at four, because it is the most important position by far.
The quarterbacks all look like 50/50 propositions to be franchise QBs to me, maybe Bridgewaer 60/40. Which means there is a good likelihood that one or two of them will be franchise QBs and we will pass which could lead our troubled franchise to more criticism, a la 2005 Winslow over Ben.
But there are other ways to skin a cat. None of the four teams in the Championship Games drafted their QB in the first round. You got Hoyer, you bring in Grossman and draft a rookie, later in round one, or in round two or three ... and you see what you've got. There will be other drafts, other Qbs. Maybe a 40% shot that Derek Carr is a franchise QB at 26 has more value than a 60% chance Teddy Twatwater is a franchise QB at #4 ... if it means you are getting Sammy Watkins or one of the other three studs of this draft*.
Zombo
*IMO
Zombo said:
At his point in time, I am sensing four bonafide "difference makers" who have "can't miss" written on them: Clowney, Robinson, Mack and Watkins. Since we are fortunate to have the fourth pick, I think we need to come away with one of them. And two of them, Mack and Watkins, are at positions of deep need. It is almost a no-brainer to me.
I "like" the quarterbacks, but I am not "in love" with them. If the Browns feel the same way, then they certainly should grab a stud at 4 and then see what develops.
If, however, they think one of these QBs is "their guy", then by all means they should grab him at four, because it is the most important position by far.
The quarterbacks all look like 50/50 propositions to be franchise QBs to me, maybe Bridgewaer 60/40. Which means there is a good likelihood that one or two of them will be franchise QBs and we will pass which could lead our troubled franchise to more criticism, a la 2005 Winslow over Ben.
But there are other ways to skin a cat. None of the four teams in the Championship Games drafted their QB in the first round. You got Hoyer, you bring in Grossman and draft a rookie, later in round one, or in round two or three ... and you see what you've got. There will be other drafts, other Qbs. Maybe a 40% shot that Derek Carr is a franchise QB at 26 has more value than a 60% chance Teddy Twatwater is a franchise QB at #4 ... if it means you are getting Sammy Watkins or one of the other three studs of this draft*.
Zombo
*IMO
That stat about the Championship games is all well and good, but it's a little skewed. Peyton was a first overall pick and the biggest Free Agent acquisition in the last decade and the 49ers had a first overall pick at QB for the five years prior while they built the team around him, before subbing in in.
But, the championship games prove your exact point, there are multiple ways to build a successful team. The only thing in common is a strong defense and solid to great QB play.
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Judging from the "never in a million years", "fuck no", and "are you regarded"'s, if say there's upwards of five people who claim he's a bust.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
Personally, I'm in the camp that a QB, even of mild talent, can improve a team much more than any other positional player. Not that I necessarily believe that person to be Manziel.
I can see wanting to get the most value for your pick in terms of trading back but if you can't get a trade, then nut up and take the guy anyway, even if he's considered a reach.
I believe this about any pick in the draft, not just the first round picks. There's no such thing as a reach if you believe that guy to be a gamechanger. If he turns out to suck, blame your scouting department because they fucked up.
At his point in time, I am sensing four bonafide "difference makers" who have "can't miss" written on them: Clowney, Robinson, Mack and Watkins. Since we are fortunate to have the fourth pick, I think we need to come away with one of them. And two of them, Mack and Watkins, are at positions of deep need. It is almost a no-brainer to me.
I "like" the quarterbacks, but I am not "in love" with them. If the Browns feel the same way, then they certainly should grab a stud at 4 and then see what develops.
If, however, they think one of these QBs is "their guy", then by all means they should grab him at four, because it is the most important position by far.
The quarterbacks all look like 50/50 propositions to be franchise QBs to me, maybe Bridgewaer 60/40. Which means there is a good likelihood that one or two of them will be franchise QBs and we will pass which could lead our troubled franchise to more criticism, a la 2005 Winslow over Ben.
But there are other ways to skin a cat. None of the four teams in the Championship Games drafted their QB in the first round. You got Hoyer, you bring in Grossman and draft a rookie, later in round one, or in round two or three ... and you see what you've got. There will be other drafts, other Qbs. Maybe a 40% shot that Derek Carr is a franchise QB at 26 has more value than a 60% chance Teddy Twatwater is a franchise QB at #4 ... if it means you are getting Sammy Watkins or one of the other three studs of this draft*.
Zombo
*IMO
Zombo said:
At his point in time, I am sensing four bonafide "difference makers" who have "can't miss" written on them: Clowney, Robinson, Mack and Watkins.
add evans WR to that list as well as gibson and ha ha on defense.
guarantee half you guys will have evans on your fantasy league next year right after watkins, johnson, gordon and green.
i know i was all over clowney's dick for a month or so but i'm starting to think he just wants the big payday and might just turn into a haynesworth. the other 3 are the safest and prob least bust material in the top 5.
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@walterwhite said:
Evans reminds of me of someone who will go to the Ravens or Steelers and have a Hall of Fame career.
I want him here and think he's going to be a good WR but I don't think he last till 26 and we won't take him at 4
no we won't take him at 4 unless he's their guy. nobody knows what will happen. that's why this moment in time before the draft is so fucking unbearable.
they might take manziel. i think they will see what players have been taken and then they go with who's left on their board after that, unless of course some team feels really froggy and wants to leap frog the teams between 4 and wherever with a nice 2nd or 3rd round pick thrown in. if mack, watkins and robinson (or QBs) are gone at the spot farmer traded down to, then i could see them going evans or gibson. looks like the need for a S is gone with the talk of signing whitens.
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Zombo said:
There seems to be a ton of us that think he's a good player but not at #4.
How many guys think he is a bust on this board ... one?
Zombo
Judging from the "never in a million years", "fuck no", and "are you regarded"'s, if say there's upwards of five people who claim he's a bust.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
Personally, I'm in the camp that a QB, even of mild talent, can improve a team much more than any other positional player. Not that I necessarily believe that person to be Manziel.
I can see wanting to get the most value for your pick in terms of trading back but if you can't get a trade, then nut up and take the guy anyway, even if he's considered a reach.
I believe this about any pick in the draft, not just the first round picks. There's no such thing as a reach if you believe that guy to be a gamechanger. If he turns out to suck, blame your scouting department because they fucked up.
I don't understand this "he's good, but not at [insert draft position]". You take the player who you believe can help your team the most, regardless of draft position. If that's JF, then so be it. If it's Mack, then so be it. If it's Watkins, then so be it.
You know jack shit about football and the draft bro. It absofuckinlutely matters what position you are picking from when you draft players. The entire goal of a scouting department is to get the player of greatest value to the team available at your draft position that fills a team need and/or has potential to be a impact player that makes a difference (or develops into a solid depth pick for the later rounds ). Your a goddamn fool if you think just cause a FO is sold on a player they should just pick them regardless of where there drafting at. That's just fucking stupid. So if the browns are sold on Fales at quarterback one hundred and ten percent we should take him with the number four overall pick and just say fuck playing his projected round/value? Or take manziel, bortles, or bridewater at 4 when there at the very best mid to late first rounders and at worst top of the 3rd? Stupid. You draft the BPA at your draft position that is going to fill a team need, is going to impact games, AND has sold himself to the scouting department and FO. Not this garbage "well if we like a guy just pick him wherever it doesn't matter we like him that's all that matters". Get real.
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Hahaha. Funny. It is not based on mock drafts you douche, it's based on a teams big board. You dont go selecting a guy with the fourth pick overall cause you like him when he sits out of the single digits on your big board. That's called fucking your team out of better available talent to reach.@mike-h said:
If the Browns determine any player has value at any position, who the fuck are you to question it?
Fans these days put too much stock into these fake mock drafts and then criticize front offices for trusting their scouting departments and picking players where they see fit, not where the media projects them.
You are the one who knows absolutely nothing.
and it's "They're" bro, not "there". Fix that.
And were not talking about my questioning of a player's value as the Browns FO views it, were discussing TCPOs suggestion that despite where a player sits on the big board, if you like them you pick them regardless of draft position. Again that's fucking stupid. How anyone can see it as anything other than foolish and stupid is beyond me.
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QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
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QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
uh, hoyer. duh?
i mean we gave brandon fuckin weeden 2 years as the starter before we found out he sucks ass. 2 games with hoyer and you are going to throw him under the bus?
let me guess we should pick manziel and then from there pick every OSU player at position of need.
if braxton miller was in this draft would you be on his dick worse than manziel's?
who says we have to pick a QB @4? you? yeah i've seen your mocks and they all involve hyde and shazier and prob roby as well.
you gotta have a hardon the size of columbus thinking we might sign whitner.
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You seen that once in a highlight play on sportscenter and now it's embedded in your brain on playback. Go watch a full game
Misses WRs and takes off? How about plenty of times on his highlight reels.
The Manziel lovers are gonna see what they want to see about him- and I guess it's hopeless at this point to try and change anyone's opinion.
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QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
I seriously doubt Farmer and Pettine are going to use the #4 pick on a "chance". They're going to feel 100% sure the guy they take there is going to impact the team in a big way. You want to take chances, head to your local casino.
QB trumps all other positions only if the talent is there when you pick. I believe that's called "drafting for need". And it can get your team screwed for years. Just ask the Vikings and Jaguars who took Ponder and Gabbert because they "needed" a qb. If the Browns FO (not me) decides there's an impact player at a position other than qb that's less a risk- you take that other position player.
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Its gotta be QB at the 4th.If not then they really are sold on hoyer.But I don't think they are, if they aren't then they gotta either trade for a QB or draft one.But theres no way if they are not sold on hoyer they don't grab one of the three QBs.
Not getting a QB equals 5-11 or 6-10
Drafting Manziel and him busting equals 5-11 or 6-10
Drafting Manziel and hitting is 10 years of excitement and wins.
You gotta go for it,dont and your gonna lose anyway
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@walterwhite said:
This is one of the most illogical analysis every and here's why:
EVERY PICK IS A GAMBLE no matter what the position. THERE IS NO SUCH THINGS AS A SAFE PICK, PERIOD.
Steelers fans HATED the Big Ben pick at first because they wanted to trade up for Philip Rivers or Eli Manning
Packers fans were up in arms about Rogers because they felt Favre had 5+ years left.
The Panthers made a HUGE investment in Cam Newton.
People like you act like you can only draft a QB if his name is Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning and those guys are once every 10 years.
I remember when we drafted Richardson and everyone thought it was a "can't miss pick" just like Aaron Curry and millions of other colossal top 5 bust that weren't QB's.
Even Pettine said the day he was hired QB was the most important position on the field.
Anyone with a football IQ knows that trumps it.
You haven't been on this board long enough to know my astute draft acumen. FWIW, I wanted the Browns to draft Rothlisberger- if you look at my profile- I live right down the road from Miami of Ohio- and I saw plenty of Ben in college. Re: TR? Everybody? Not me pal. I fumed that we wasted a #3 on Richardson (and gave up picks on top of it)..Knew Braylon Edwards came with a rap of bad hands out of Michigan, thought Quinn would bust. Loved the Joe Thomas and Haden picks. Wanted the Browns to take Ladanian Tomlinson instead of Fatass Warren. Personally, my track record in the first round is better than Lombardi's.
Yeah WW, I don't like Manziel either- for reasons I'm not going to bother to repeat. I've missed on a few- and when I do, I admit I'm wrong. It's people like you that want to swing for the damn fences striking out on inferior qb talent setting the team back 2-3 years with every miss.
No one is saying qb isn't important- and I sure haven't. Sure every pick is a gamble. Some are riskier than others. If you haven't been paying attention, there's a whole lot of scouts saying Manziel is the riskiest pick out of the qbs likely to go high..
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It tends to stink up this board when a few know-it-alls start getting
outraged that other people have opinions that differ from their
"expert" opinions, and go to the insults.
I don't recall any "expert" getting the NFL draft right, for every team, or any team, ever.
Antagonistic, "outraged experts" are more like Mike Scumbardi on too much
tequila and a giant bag of popcorn - totally full of crap and they don't know it.
Just because qb, as Farmer noted, is the most important, etc...doesn't mean that
this crowd of top qb's this year, contains THAT qb for the Browns. It's shortsighted
and invalid thinking - Banner/Scumbardi style - with this idea to just draft a qb and take a chance with the 4th pick overall.
You must have a dynamic, immediate impact player with that first pick. If that qb isn't there, why would anybody,
(except for the afforementioned "experts", draft one just because of the position? Ryan Leaf, any expert, now?
The nfl draft is like a game of chess. If you need a qb, and that "sure thing immediate impact qb ability" qb
is there, sure. But if you see your "overlooked" qb as Tom Brady in the sixth round, it would be ridiculous
to take him in the top five of the first round.
You find the players that fit, bigtime, and you take them where you figure you can, preferably
a round early if you think you need to....
Thing is, qb is so important and in demand, that they keep ending up high in the first round,,,
even when they don't really fit, don't see the field, don't have the intangibles...and don't have
the character...like a Ryan Leaf.
If you have a superbowl type of team, you can take chances. But the Browns are building a winner,
finally, with a gm in place that played the game, and has his head screwed on very, very smartly.
There weren't any questions about Luck, or rothlicksrapistbooger, that made them risky picks.
There are very significant questions about every top qb in this draft. So, if it was me, I wouldn't
take the chance, unless I was an Ozzie Newsome or Farmer type of smart judge of talent, and knew better.
The ratbirds drafted Boller with the 19th pick in the first round. NO, they didn't trade a lot of valuable
draft picks to trade up to the top three to make sure they got him. Rapistbooger was 11th.
Come on. Russel Wilson - SUPER BOWL WINNER. He wasn't drafted until the 12th pick of the third round.
You know talent, and you get your guys where you can get them. If you don't really know talent,
then you keep drafting media hyped players way too high, usually from their stats on paper,
and some college game video.
You have your list of talents, mix in needs, add in appraisals of other teams' needs etc...
it's more complicated than a banner or scumbardi thinks.
A lot of NFL veterans who retire, have said emotion is a huge part of the game. Anybody see emotion in
the likes of Campbell, Weedone, Quinn, Anderson? At least Boller and Ben Raperbooger had emotion
and the arm.
If that sure thing? immediate impact kind of talent isn't there for you high in the first round at qb,
you pick another position where that "sure thing" talent IS there.
Enough with the media hype, the "looks grrrreat on paper", etc. Farmer and Pettine know better.
Draft Manziel at 4? When some scouts wouldn't take him in the first round? We're back to Banner
and Scumbardi.
Even Watkins could end up being a party guy, with a failed dope test later on. Or not.
If it was me, I'd draft Mack at 4, maybe a small trade down with the Vikings and draft Moseley,
given the choices. They are the immediate can't miss players at the top of the draft, that
will make any team that gets them very, very happy.
Maybe a favorite chance at qb, or pick a wr or OG at 26. Who knows? Nobody.
Whoever Farmer, Pettine and co. draft, they KNOW what they are lookiing for, and where they
can get em. I just wish the draft was sooner. I'll know that they made the smartest choices possible.
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JF all the way.....
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JF all the way.....
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Teddy is the pick
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