Upward or merely lateral moves?
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Here is an article from Patrick McManamon. It poses an appropriate question:
Upgrades, replacement parts or both?
Did the Cleveland Browns take a step forward on the first day of free agency with their three signings, or did they merely bring in replacements for guys who left?
Maybe it depends on point of view.NFL FREE AGENCY
Keep up with player moves and incisive analysis and viewpoints on ESPN.com.• Bill Polian's Free-Agent Tracker
• Latest news, analysis: FA Wire
• Polian's free-agency dos, don'ts
• Sando: Value of Revis, best fits
• Williamson: Best FA bargains
• Fits: Chris Johnson | Sproles
• ESPN Insider: Rumor Central{C}{C}The Browns lost an inside linebacker and receiver this offseason when they released D'Qwell Jackson and Davone Bess. They lost a safety when T.J. Ward signed with Denver as a free agent.
In free agency, they agreed with an inside linebacker in Karlos Dansby, agreed to an offer sheet with receiver Andrew Hawkins and agreed with safety Donte Whitner.
Out goes one, in comes another.
All the new guys are good players. Whitner and Dansby are aggressive guys who are not afraid to lead. Both are older than the guys they replaced, but both can play. Hawkins is younger than Bess, and (assuming the Bengals do not match the offer) is faster, more explosive and more dependable than Bess, who developed a good case of the dropsies in Cleveland.
Are the Browns better than they were on Tuesday? The team would say yes, that they have added explosive, aggressive players who can make impact plays on defense, in the passing game and on special teams. Too, the players signed -- while not "big-ticket" guys -- are good, dependable players. They are far better than just "guys" who fill the roster. They can play, and that's good.
But the argument can be made that because the Browns lost players at each of the positions, the team merely has filled holes. The players may be better, but it's not like upgrading from a college backup to Tom Brady. The two defensive guys lost contributed to the Browns the past few years. The new guys may be better, but they are better by degrees, not leaps and bounds. Still, by that measurement, the Browns improved. But they won't make significant steps forward until they add players to the mix, not remake the mix.
If the Browns take what they've done and add another good player or two, they will have taken a step forward. The draft awaits, and the Browns have more picks than some teams do in two years.
The first day of free agency was a start. It wasn't merely treading water. But it also wasn't a huge splash. It was a start.
But for a team that has a bunch of false starts the past few years, a start is something. -
I see these as yes, lateral moves, but slight upgrades.
I agree that for the Browns to have been improved they need to bring in someone who isn't just replacing someone who left:
Perhaps a Golden Tate or Eric Decker or Jacoby Jones at WR.
Getting Revis would obviously be that kind of move...or another good CB (Tarell Brown/Captain Munnerlyn/Carlos Rogers?)
Bring LaGarret Blount in at RB?
An OG? Shelley Smith
Or are we just waiting for the draft to "add talent" rather than just replace talent?
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It's an improvement just based on the fact that DQJ and Ward clearly weren't happy here. Ward wanted 8m but took a 3.5m paycut to play on a contender. Whitner came home and wants to be here. That speaks volumes.
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There's no reason to pay a RB >3m/yr
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It's an improvement just based on the fact that DQJ and Ward clearly weren't happy here. Ward wanted 8m but took a 3.5m paycut to play on a contender. Whitner came home and wants to be here. That speaks volumes.
It's an improvement just based on the fact that DQJ and Ward clearly weren't happy here. Ward wanted 8m but took a 3.5m paycut to play on a contender. Whitner came home and wants to be here. That speaks volumes.
Also speaks volumes people want to play for our coaches
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It's an improvement just based on the fact that DQJ and Ward clearly weren't happy here. Ward wanted 8m but took a 3.5m paycut to play on a contender. Whitner came home and wants to be here. That speaks volumes.
Also speaks volumes people want to play for our coaches
Also speaks volumes people want to play for our coaches
I believe that.
OK Revis, prove us right!!!
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Telling, Vapor. Interesting, I got the impression from the reports that Whitner was more of a hard hitting safety, a TJ Ward clone - according to that he's better in coverage? That fits more with what I've read on Pettine's safety preferences, so maybe it's accurate and the media portrayal of him is not.
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Although looking more closely, I'm not sure I can understand the coverage grades:
58% comp; 4.6 YAC; 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 PDs - Whitner +10.7
52% comp; 2.8 YAC; 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PDs - Ward +4.8
?? Is it that heavily skewed to TDs? Because Ward is ahead in every other category.
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Although looking more closely, I'm not sure I can understand the coverage grades:
58% comp; 4.6 YAC; 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 PDs - Whitner +10.7
52% comp; 2.8 YAC; 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PDs - Ward +4.8
?? Is it that heavily skewed to TDs? Because Ward is ahead in every other category.
Although looking more closely, I'm not sure I can understand the coverage grades:
58% comp; 4.6 YAC; 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 PDs - Whitner +10.7
52% comp; 2.8 YAC; 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PDs - Ward +4.8
?? Is it that heavily skewed to TDs? Because Ward is ahead in every other category.
I believe PFF actually grades players on each actual play, not just the stats - they use the game film to come up with their grades.
Their grading would likely take into account for how often the player was out of position, faked, had excellent coverage, and so forth.
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Although looking more closely, I'm not sure I can understand the coverage grades:
58% comp; 4.6 YAC; 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 PDs - Whitner +10.7
52% comp; 2.8 YAC; 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PDs - Ward +4.8
?? Is it that heavily skewed to TDs? Because Ward is ahead in every other category.
I believe PFF actually grades players on each actual play, not just the stats - they use the game film to come up with their grades.
Their grading would likely take into account for how often the player was out of position, faked, had excellent coverage, and so forth.
I believe PFF actually grades players on each actual play, not just the stats - they use the game film to come up with their grades.
Their grading would likely take into account for how often the player was out of position, faked, had excellent coverage, and so forth.
OK, good, that makes more sense, thanks.
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Historically, I think Whitner has been worse against the pass than Ward. Last year, the stats shown might be an outlier.
As for the grades, I second JAFBF's take on it, they're looking at whether or not each player was in position or beaten on every play.
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The browns merely got a tit for a tat on day one nothing more and nothing less..
The big FA splash that as usual never developed for the browns is over and as usual the browns appear to only break even or a bit better on paper..
IMHO Farmer definitely missed some opportunities and has failed to shore up anything thusfar ..
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I like all the moves. To be honest, I think the best move so far, has been kicking Weeden to the curb. Him not being on the sideline makes us better. His dumb ass grin and his dumb ass back hand throws, are now gone, Fuck Ya!
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How the hell do you like these moves? Are you slow?
We released 2 great players and replaced them with decent players that are both 2 years older and underperform comparatively.
Good moves? WTH moves are you looking at?
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How the hell do you like these moves? Are you slow?
We released 2 great players and replaced them with decent players that are both 2 years older and underperform comparatively.
Good moves? WTH moves are you looking at?
How the hell do you like these moves? Are you slow?
We released 2 great players and replaced them with decent players that are both 2 years older and underperform comparatively.
Good moves? WTH moves are you looking at?
Underperform? How so? Whitner has been consistently good for SF, Ward has only reached that level this year. Dansby was superior to Jackson. Yes, older, but not significantly. Factor in that both Jackson and Ward wanted to leave as well. We've basically replaced like for like.
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How the hell do you like these moves? Are you slow?
We released 2 great players and replaced them with decent players that are both 2 years older and underperform comparatively.
Good moves? WTH moves are you looking at?
Underperform? How so? Whitner has been consistently good for SF, Ward has only reached that level this year. Dansby was superior to Jackson. Yes, older, but not significantly. Factor in that both Jackson and Ward wanted to leave as well. We've basically replaced like for like.
Underperform? How so? Whitner has been consistently good for SF, Ward has only reached that level this year. Dansby was superior to Jackson. Yes, older, but not significantly. Factor in that both Jackson and Ward wanted to leave as well. We've basically replaced like for like.
How was Dansby superior to DQ? DQ had 30+ more tackles and has led this team for the past 5 years. Dansby had his best year last year statistically and wasn't where DQ was numbers wise. Likewise, Ward outperformed Whitner in both total tackles and coverage ratings, and he's older. Please tell how this is an upgrade, I really want to believe without putting on the homer glasses.
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Underperform? How so? Whitner has been consistently good for SF, Ward has only reached that level this year. Dansby was superior to Jackson. Yes, older, but not significantly. Factor in that both Jackson and Ward wanted to leave as well. We've basically replaced like for like.
How was Dansby superior to DQ? DQ had 30+ more tackles and has led this team for the past 5 years. Dansby had his best year last year statistically and wasn't where DQ was numbers wise. Likewise, Ward outperformed Whitner in both total tackles and coverage ratings, and he's older. Please tell how this is an upgrade, I really want to believe without putting on the homer glasses.
How was Dansby superior to DQ? DQ had 30+ more tackles and has led this team for the past 5 years. Dansby had his best year last year statistically and wasn't where DQ was numbers wise. Likewise, Ward outperformed Whitner in both total tackles and coverage ratings, and he's older. Please tell how this is an upgrade, I really want to believe without putting on the homer glasses.
Jackson had 75 solo tackles to Dansby's 112
Jackson had 1 sack to Dansby's 6
Jackson had 1 pick to Dansby's 4
Jackson had more tackles total, yes, but you can see a lot of the tackles he made were assisted - either he needed the help or was giving it. Dansby is more of a game changing impact player at that position.
Ward vs Whitner's been done somewhere else on here.
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I think Browns fans had Jackson overrated.
He was solid. That's it.
Dansby will make more plays, be more of a difference maker on the field.
Whitner is as good as Ward ... More of a leader ... Wants to be here.
Get over the age. We needed some IMO. Everyone in the NFL is effectively on a 2-3 year deal with the exception of Franchise QBs and left tackles.
Z
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