QB is the TOP Pick. What Happens if the Hoyer Experiment Fails?
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
Not necessarily. Trading down could include a 1st round pick next year. Just make the deal with a bad team that will likely get a high 1st round pick next year and hope for the best.
Admittedly not a likely scenario, just sayin'.
As others have observed, if a QB has been targeted for next year then trading up to get him is an option...assuming the team can afford to lose the picks needed for the trade.
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I think if you're set on a QB next year, trading the Indy pick for a 1st next year is probably a good plan.
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Hoyer failing is as likely as Gordon failing a piss test. If that happens I don't give a shot who we have at QB we aren't winning any ball games.
I just don't see a superstar QB worthy of a 4 in the draft. Bortles maybe? That really only if Watkins is gone.
So basically, you don't think we have a shot of improving next season at all? Is that where others are coming from too?
So basically, you don't think we have a shot of improving next season at all? Is that where others are coming from too?
nobody is saying that at all. (some people just don't get it.)
we've got a guy already pinned as our starter. i could put brian hoyer in a bortles mask and he'd show you all the same throws except you'd say "he lost some bulk". i could put him in black face and he'd look better than bridgewater did at his pro day and you'd be like"we gotta get this guy." so on and so forth.
teams have hitched their wagons to less. tomczak? mark malone? and we're talking super bowl champions.
the fact is you don't panic because some schlub with greasy hair claims that this is the best QB class to come along in a while. (btw it isn't. it's the best WR draft). i'll guarantee you they'll be doing the same song and dance next year. that's their job. they'll be all over hundley and mariotta like flies on shit. and so will you. god forbid we draft some kid "who is pro-ready" throw him into the fire and looks worse than geno smith did last year (who most analysts say would have graded out better than any of these guys this year and would be considered the #1 QB) and then all you guys that wanted him go "gosh dammit, i knew we should have waited until next year!! i know the jets wish they could go back in time right now. now they're looking at a perennial 6 game starter that kills dogs to come in and run the show.
build the team. when you find you're guy do what it takes to get him.
who knows hoyer might surprise us all and we won't have such an URGENCY by some of you to get the next johnny unitas.
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so youre against the top 3 at 4, and also at say 16-20? Past failures shouldnt stop us from making moves that makes sense. How does Brady Quinn factor in to whether whoever we pick there succeeds?NOOOOOOOOooooooooooo...
I just dubbed this scenario "Quinn 2.0" in another thread. Not sure I can take that nightmare again...
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
so youre against the top 3 at 4, and also at say 16-20? Past failures shouldn't stop us from making moves that makes sense. How does Brady Quinn factor in to whether whoever we pick there succeeds?
IMO Bortles is the only one that makes sense @ #4- and he'll probably be gone. Bridgewater could easily be a new rendition of the oft injured Sam Bradford. Manziel's game may not translate to the pros. Carr shows Weeden tendencies to collapse under pressure.
The guys who are hot to push all the chips in on a qb this year are prematurely throwing Hoyer under the bus, just my .02 .
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
But you can never plan on getting someone next year if you need an upgrade this year. Pick a guy out of this class. Jimmies win now attitude says he probably agrees with me.
You're totally missing the point- you don't draft for need if the talent isn't there. I'll take a Mack or Watkins over any of the top qbs. BTW, a "win now" attitude rarely works with a rookie qb running the show. There isn't any Andrew Luck in this draft- sorry about that.
No, the smart thing may well be to follow (hate to say it) the Steelers model- draft your franchise qb last. Incidentally, that also worked quite well for Kansas City last year-via a trade. As was pointed out- none of last year's NFL Final Four drafted their qb in the first round. Of last year's top 20 qbs- only 10 were drafted in the top 5, so if we have a guy targeted in 2015, it may well be possible to trade up then to grab him.
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
^ Thanks, h.... saved me the time...
The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
"Starting" is not the bar I am looking to clear. We already have a starter IMO.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
As mik already has pointed out, not saying that at all... unintentionally or otherwise.
Crossed-fingers is your plan? Holy shit!
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Johnny Football.....
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I guess my point is, that I dont believe Hoyer is the answer. I also think these QBs are a helluva lot better than both of you are giving them credit for. Suck it up boys, were getting one of em.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I guess my point is, that I dont believe Hoyer is the answer. I also think these QBs are a helluva lot better than both of you are giving them credit for. Suck it up boys, were getting one of em.
way to be firm behind your convictions.
who and where if you're so smart?
that's like me saying, 'we're going to pick a CB!"
at least diehard calls JF although i guess he's saying we're picking him @4.
hey, he could be right, i could be right, but call your fucking shot!
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Farmer & Pettine will make up their OWN minds (may have already!). What I don't get is how some of you folks think that just because a QB is rated #1, #2, #3, etc in THIS draft, he's ELITE????? There are concerns with all these QBs this year. There is NO Peyton or Andrew in this draft. There MAY be a Tom or Russell (or we may already have him), but we don't know that & I sure as hell wouldn't trade up for ANY of these QBs this year. IMHO, trade down if anything. I trust these pro's ability to make the right decision.
As someone posted earlier, don't break the bank on a question mark, fill needs, then trade picks down the road when we can afford to do that.
None of us really know what'll happen, so I'm just gonna sit back & enjoy the ride with Farmer & Pettine driving. Then I'll support the Browns Team they put on the field.
Mike
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I guess my point is, that I dont believe Hoyer is the answer. I also think these QBs are a helluva lot better than both of you are giving them credit for. Suck it up boys, were getting one of em.
way to be firm behind your convictions.
who and where if you're so smart?
that's like me saying, 'we're going to pick a CB!"
at least diehard calls JF although i guess he's saying we're picking him @4.
hey, he could be right, i could be right, but call your fucking shot!
hahaha I think Id go with Manziel, Bortles, Bridgewater, but theyre all real close. I would pass on em all at 4, and be trying real hard to get into the teens if Bortles or Manziel fell. I would take any at 26, Carr and Garroppolo (sp?) enter into the equation at 35. I think its an absolute certainty we end up with one of those 5.way to be firm behind your convictions.
who and where if you're so smart?
that's like me saying, 'we're going to pick a CB!"
at least diehard calls JF although i guess he's saying we're picking him @4.
hey, he could be right, i could be right, but call your fucking shot!
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With Houston trading Schaub...I think that's a dead giveaway they're taking a QB. Manziel or Bortles. They will probably still try to sign a vet somewhere but I think it's a lock they go qb. Which means.......Mack and/or Clowney have a definite chance of still being there at 4. I think the 4th pick is going to be easy for Farmer...he's just taking the BPA plain and simple. Even though we don't have an immediate need there, I would not be surprised to see us take Clowney if he's there at 4. However, we can also do a nasty nasty nasty trade down with someone for Clowney as well. There are some good teams that perennially pick late in the 1st round who might theoretically be willing to part with 1st round picks for a few years to come for Clowney. Just a thought. If nobody's willing to do that though, take him. Let Sheard and Kruger no that another combined 8-10 sack year isn't going to cut it on this defense when two guys out in KC had that many sacks between them after week 2 or 3. I know a lot of you aren't high on taking Clowney but ffs you could have a rotation at OLB that looks like Kruger/Sheard and Clowney/Mingo. Obviously cap wise one of those guys is going to become expendable at some point in the future but holy fuck....what a good rotation to have to develop Clowney and Mingo.
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mack would probably fit into pettine/o'brien's scheme as a plug and play guy day one BUT if he's not there i'm hoping someone rings the browns' phone off the hook.
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Farmer & Pettine will make up their OWN minds (may have already!). What I don't get is how some of you folks think that just because a QB is rated #1, #2, #3, etc in THIS draft, he's ELITE????? There are concerns with all these QBs this year. There is NO Peyton or Andrew in this draft. There MAY be a Tom or Russell (or we may already have him), but we don't know that & I sure as hell wouldn't trade up for ANY of these QBs this year. IMHO, trade down if anything. I trust these pro's ability to make the right decision.
As someone posted earlier, don't break the bank on a question mark, fill needs, then trade picks down the road when we can afford to do that.
None of us really know what'll happen, so I'm just gonna sit back & enjoy the ride with Farmer & Pettine driving. Then I'll support the Browns Team they put on the field.
Mike
Farmer & Pettine will make up their OWN minds (may have already!). What I don't get is how some of you folks think that just because a QB is rated #1, #2, #3, etc in THIS draft, he's ELITE????? There are concerns with all these QBs this year. There is NO Peyton or Andrew in this draft. There MAY be a Tom or Russell (or we may already have him), but we don't know that & I sure as hell wouldn't trade up for ANY of these QBs this year. IMHO, trade down if anything. I trust these pro's ability to make the right decision.
As someone posted earlier, don't break the bank on a question mark, fill needs, then trade picks down the road when we can afford to do that.
None of us really know what'll happen, so I'm just gonna sit back & enjoy the ride with Farmer & Pettine driving. Then I'll support the Browns Team they put on the field.
Mike
Your're forgetting the other decision maker on this team........Jimmy H. My bet is Jimmy wants a QB in this draft, and I suspect he would prefer one
that tore up the best of the SEC.
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Farmer & Pettine will make up their OWN minds (may have already!). What I don't get is how some of you folks think that just because a QB is rated #1, #2, #3, etc in THIS draft, he's ELITE????? There are concerns with all these QBs this year. There is NO Peyton or Andrew in this draft. There MAY be a Tom or Russell (or we may already have him), but we don't know that & I sure as hell wouldn't trade up for ANY of these QBs this year. IMHO, trade down if anything. I trust these pro's ability to make the right decision.
As someone posted earlier, don't break the bank on a question mark, fill needs, then trade picks down the road when we can afford to do that.
None of us really know what'll happen, so I'm just gonna sit back & enjoy the ride with Farmer & Pettine driving. Then I'll support the Browns Team they put on the field.
Mike
Your're forgetting the other decision maker on this team........Jimmy H. My bet is Jimmy wants a QB in this draft, and I suspect he would prefer one
that tore up the best of the SEC.
Your're forgetting the other decision maker on this team........Jimmy H. My bet is Jimmy wants a QB in this draft, and I suspect he would prefer one
that tore up the best of the SEC.
and he also hired a guy to do the job as GM and build a team that will field the best results.
not bet it all on some yahoo.
would you want your job resting on JF?
let's meet back here same time next year and see who says what then.
i might be calling you a genious or you be saying i was right. we'll see.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
in your opinion. EJ Manuel would be behind the top 3 this year. Mariota = Manziel. Winston may play baseball. Were in position, and need a highly rated QB. Not sure why people are so against the QBs this year.....
Agreed. It is my opinion. But they all have red flags. While I know the Browns can't keep "waiting till next year" for a quarterback, I'd rather them not waste a draft pick either. I would rather they fill in all the pieces.
Mariotta definitely does not equal Manziel. Faster, Bigger/Taller, more fluid, better decision making, doesn't panic in the pocket. ( also just my opinion ... but that's what I see ).
But next year also has Hundley from UCLA ( who I also really like ), Petty from Baylor, etc.
I'm not against QB this year. Just not at 4. Again, I think they're better taking a guy in the middle rounds, and let him sit and learn, etc. Whether that's Garapolo, Murray ( undersized ), McCarron, etc.
This is similar to what I've been thinking, pick up BPA (hopefully in positions in need) with our 1a,1b picks, then draft McCarron with our 2nd rd. or one of our 3rds, maybe even move back up into the bottom of the 2nd and pick him up there. Now I know a lot of people aren't all that high on the guy, but something just tells me the guy is gonna be a steal. Also if I'm not mistaken, I heard he tore it up at Alabama's pro day.I'm not against QB this year. Just not at 4. Again, I think they're better taking a guy in the middle rounds, and let him sit and learn, etc. Whether that's Garapolo, Murray ( undersized ), McCarron, etc.
!!!!hopefully i'll be alive when it happens!!!! -
This is similar to what I've been thinking, pick up BPA (hopefully in positions in need) with our 1a,1b picks, then draft McCarron with our 2nd rd. or one of our 3rds, maybe even move back up into the bottom of the 2nd and pick him up there. Now I know a lot of people aren't all that high on the guy, but something just tells me the guy is gonna be a steal. Also if I'm not mistaken, I heard he tore it up at Alabama's pro day.I'm not against QB this year. Just not at 4. Again, I think they're better taking a guy in the middle rounds, and let him sit and learn, etc. Whether that's Garapolo, Murray ( undersized ), McCarron, etc.
This is similar to what I've been thinking, pick up BPA (hopefully in positions in need) with our 1a,1b picks, then draft McCarron with our 2nd rd. or one of our 3rds, maybe even move back up into the bottom of the 2nd and pick him up there. Now I know a lot of people aren't all that high on the guy, but something just tells me the guy is gonna be a steal. Also if I'm not mistaken, I heard he tore it up at Alabama's pro day.
looked solid at the combine as well.
the guy is big game tested.
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@Canton Mike
Peyton had way hurtin' numbers his rookie season and anyone saying at the time he was a potential HOFer was thought to have lost their minds.
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Your're forgetting the other decision maker on this team........Jimmy H. My bet is Jimmy wants a QB in this draft, and I suspect he would prefer one
that tore up the best of the SEC.
and he also hired a guy to do the job as GM and build a team that will field the best results.
not bet it all on some yahoo.
would you want your job resting on JF?
let's meet back here same time next year and see who says what then.
i might be calling you a genious or you be saying i was right. we'll see.
and he also hired a guy to do the job as GM and build a team that will field the best results.
not bet it all on some yahoo.
would you want your job resting on JF?
let's meet back here same time next year and see who says what then.
i might be calling you a genious or you be saying i was right. we'll see.
If I were the GM and the owner said get me JF, then I'd damn well get him. Sometimes you have the let the sphincter loosen up and pull the trigger when you have the guy in your sights thats going to bring this team back to glory despite what the naysayers think.
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This is similar to what I've been thinking, pick up BPA (hopefully in positions in need) with our 1a,1b picks, then draft McCarron with our 2nd rd. or one of our 3rds, maybe even move back up into the bottom of the 2nd and pick him up there. Now I know a lot of people aren't all that high on the guy, but something just tells me the guy is gonna be a steal. Also if I'm not mistaken, I heard he tore it up at Alabama's pro day.I'm not against QB this year. Just not at 4. Again, I think they're better taking a guy in the middle rounds, and let him sit and learn, etc. Whether that's Garapolo, Murray ( undersized ), McCarron, etc.
This is similar to what I've been thinking, pick up BPA (hopefully in positions in need) with our 1a,1b picks, then draft McCarron with our 2nd rd. or one of our 3rds, maybe even move back up into the bottom of the 2nd and pick him up there. Now I know a lot of people aren't all that high on the guy, but something just tells me the guy is gonna be a steal. Also if I'm not mistaken, I heard he tore it up at Alabama's pro day.
I agree, except I doubt McCarron would be there after our 35 pick & he MAY be gone then. I also like Garoppolo in the 2nd or 3rd & wouldn't mind Murray, butnot until the 4th.
Mike
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There isn't a worthwhile QB to take in the first round! If you think there is you smoking fucking crack and need to get off the flavor off the weeks jock so you quit embarrassing yourselves. JF, BB or any other one that you people are so fucking on your knees mouth wide open are not worth the 4'th, 26th or the first pick in the second round. Your probably the same trash that was wanting to pick Quinn over Thomas in 07.
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