Official NFL Draft Discussion
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Think it will be Manziel. My guys and I sat down and answered the question individually. Here's the article we put together. Hope you like: http://thefantasygreek.com/nfl-draft-who-do-the-cleveland-browns-pick-first-writer-picks/
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Nobody in particular, but it could be any player that will be gone by the Browns second pick.
A reach IMO would be a Weeden pick. There was literally no team about to pull the trigger on him when we took him.
As for Richardson, yeah, a RB at 4 is not the norm anymore but he would have been gone by the Weeden pick, that's not reaching then.
As for this year, any number of players could be taken at 4 and I wouldn't consider it a reach, maybe a slight stretch to take Gilbert at 4 but not a reach as he would be gone by 26. If the Browns want him to go opposite Haden they would have to take him at 4. Now if they took Stanley Jean-Baptiste at 4 THAT would be a reach as he could be had at 26, feel me?
Nobody in particular, but it could be any player that will be gone by the Browns second pick.
A reach IMO would be a Weeden pick. There was literally no team about to pull the trigger on him when we took him.
As for Richardson, yeah, a RB at 4 is not the norm anymore but he would have been gone by the Weeden pick, that's not reaching then.
As for this year, any number of players could be taken at 4 and I wouldn't consider it a reach, maybe a slight stretch to take Gilbert at 4 but not a reach as he would be gone by 26. If the Browns want him to go opposite Haden they would have to take him at 4. Now if they took Stanley Jean-Baptiste at 4 THAT would be a reach as he could be had at 26, feel me?
Naw I get you. I'm glad you made that example too. I'll answer in my opinion in the situation you've given. Gilbert, to me, I rate as a #15 guy. So, to me, to take him at 4 is a bad value (or a reach) if he's not a top ten talent. I'd rather trade back, get to maybe 12, 13. So then, I'm comfortable with a reach within a rating of 5 i guess you could say. For instance, lets say Sammy is gone at 4. I feel like Mike Evans is a #8 guy. I'm good with that reach.
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Think it will be Manziel. My guys and I sat down and answered the question individually. Here's the article we put together. Hope you like: http://thefantasygreek.com/nfl-draft-who-do-the-cleveland-browns-pick-first-writer-picks/
Think it will be Manziel. My guys and I sat down and answered the question individually. Here's the article we put together. Hope you like: http://thefantasygreek.com/nfl-draft-who-do-the-cleveland-browns-pick-first-writer-picks/
c'mon man.
my guys sat around and came up with the exact opposite as your guys.
who's wrong?
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VesnaKociper said:
Does anyone remember who the Browns took after Jim Brown?
Who did Denver take after Elway?
If there is a science, it may be that the first round is probably a likely place to get someone who can make an impact.Watkins represents the biggest impact possibility, and he can be had for sure, if we find a way to trade up to #2. If I am the boss, I trade our #4 and Joe Thomas, or our #4 and a #2 to get to #2. The rest of the draft? Who gives a shit......... there are no "thumb-in-your-eye must have players.
Watkins has a very high probability of being an immediate impact player. He is within draft reach, and if I am the boss, he is my "at all cost" player. there are plenty of filler players and lard ass dime-a-dozen OL in the later rounds.The only sin the Browns can make, is NOT going for the jugular and getting the highest probability of an impact player.
getting senile in your old age? Elway wasn't drafted by the Broncos. Was drafted by the Colts, and Johnny Boy threatened to play baseball instead of play for Baltimore. He demanded a trade, and got his wish.I agree with you about Watkins, if he's on the board and the Browns draft twerp Manziel instead, I may have to slam a couple bottles of wine to get over the disappointment.
Furthermore- regarding trading Thomas and our #4 to the Rams. The Rams currently have $5 million in cap space- which they're going to have to use to sign their rookie draftees. Thomas is scheduled to make in the neighborhood of $10 million this year. So pull out your calculator- the Rams would probably like to have Joe- but they can't afford him, short of cutting a bunch of players. And that's the same case for virtually every other team in the NFL.
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VesnaKociper said:
Does anyone remember who the Browns took after Jim Brown?
Who did Denver take after Elway?
I have to laugh that each draft year guys come in here and lay out their scenarios for each pick. Don't get me wrong, if some of you guys really enjoy all the analysis and the fantasy of selecting a new slate of players who will transform the team, God Bless ya. Enjoy.
But save the ridiculous Chuck Noll Draft, when did anyone really add a bunch of significant players to their roster with the draft? It just doesn't happen.
There are no guarantees, I don't care who you are, assessing what another human being will do in the future is not a science, it isn't even a guess. It is a lottery ticket and nothing more. It sucks to see how low Brady went, but NOBODY knew how good he was.
If there is a science, it may be that the first round is probably a likely place to get someone who can make an impact.
Watkins represents the biggest impact possibility, and he can be had for sure, if we find a way to trade up to #2. If I am the boss, I trade our #4 and Joe Thomas, or our #4 and a #2 to get to #2. The rest of the draft? Who gives a shit......... there are no "thumb-in-your-eye must have players.
Bitch at me all you want about my total distaste at taking Joe Thomas, but WTF impact has he made? I believe we could have had Petersen? Would that pick made us a SB champ? No, but we would have won more games, we would have seen some excitement.
I am close to tuning out the Browns for good and calling it a day. It isn't about losing, it is about making the same stupid ass mistakes over and over and over.
Since 1999 the Browns have not drafted any real impact players. I love Gordon, and I love Gordon, Bess, Watkins.
Watkins has a very high probability of being an immediate impact player. He is within draft reach, and if I am the boss, he is my "at all cost" player. there are plenty of filler players and lard ass dime-a-dozen OL in the later rounds.
The only sin the Browns can make, is NOT going for the jugular and getting the highest probability of an impact player.
Trade Joe Thomas? Are you fucking Retarded? Tell me who then is going to play left tackle.... Please do explain... And no you cannot get future hall of fame all pro tackles a dime a dozen, sorry.... Your stupidity makes my head spin.
So we trade Joe Thomas and whoever is playing QB, presumably Hoyer, gets absolutely plastered from his blindside because we have no left tackle. How fucking effective is Sammy Watkins going to be then genius? Gawd please take that stupidity somewhere else....
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VesnaKociper said:
Does anyone remember who the Browns took after Jim Brown?
Yea, Gene Hickerson, Hall of FamerWho did Denver take after Elway?
Denver didn't draft Elway, the Colts did. Denver traded for him Doh!
I have to laugh that each draft year guys come in here and lay out their scenarios for each pick. Don't get me wrong, if some of you guys really enjoy all the analysis and the fantasy of selecting a new slate of players who will transform the team, God Bless ya. Enjoy.
Each team has to do that analysis...so we as fans merely follow along. And, sure, it can be fun. Isn't that what this is all about?
But save the ridiculous Chuck Noll Draft, when did anyone really add a bunch of significant players to their roster with the draft? It just doesn't happen.
1978 Browns used 2 first round picks on Ozzie Newsome and Clay Matthews. One HOF, another could be. It would be nice to duplicate that success this year.
There are no guarantees, I don't care who you are, assessing what another human being will do in the future is not a science, it isn't even a guess. It is a lottery ticket and nothing more. It sucks to see how low Brady went, but NOBODY knew how good he was.
Well, that is why fans follow this stuff....to see who may pick up the next Tom Brady....or even Brian Sipe (round 13)
If there is a science, it may be that the first round is probably a likely place to get someone who can make an impact.
Watkins represents the biggest impact possibility, and he can be had for sure, if we find a way to trade up to #2. If I am the boss, I trade our #4 and Joe Thomas, or our #4 and a #2 to get to #2. The rest of the draft? Who gives a shit......... there are no "thumb-in-your-eye must have players.
Bitch at me all you want about my total distaste at taking Joe Thomas, but WTF impact has he made? I believe we could have had Petersen? Would that pick made us a SB champ? No, but we would have won more games, we would have seen some excitement.
But, the last couple of years Peterson has rushed for near 2000 yards....and the Vikings still lost about as many games as we have....so taking a skill player still doesn't guarantee wins. The Lions have the best WR in the game, possibly the best DT in the game...and what is supposed to be a damned good QB...and they still can't make the playoffs. So, just taking skill players, or even "impact" players doesn't get you victory. There is more involved.
I am close to tuning out the Browns for good and calling it a day. It isn't about losing, it is about making the same stupid ass mistakes over and over and over.
Since 1999 the Browns have not drafted any real impact players. I love Gordon, and I love Gordon, Bess, Watkins.
Watkins has a very high probability of being an immediate impact player. He is within draft reach, and if I am the boss, he is my "at all cost" player. there are plenty of filler players and lard ass dime-a-dozen OL in the later rounds.
The only sin the Browns can make, is NOT going for the jugular and getting the highest probability of an impact player.
There are no guarantees on Watkins either. Braylon Edwards was considered as good if not better than Watkins coming out. Well, that was fine for a bit. There are no guarantees.
I would rather see us get those 3 first rounders....then that would increase the chances that somebody we get coming out of this draft would be good. Besides...the Browns went for the jugular 2 years ago and it got us Richardson and Weeden....those supposed offensive impact players.
They had an impact all right. They impacted the Browns into shittiness.
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VesnaKociper said:
Does anyone remember who the Browns took after Jim Brown?
Who did Denver take after Elway?
I have to laugh that each draft year guys come in here and lay out their scenarios for each pick. Don't get me wrong, if some of you guys really enjoy all the analysis and the fantasy of selecting a new slate of players who will transform the team, God Bless ya. Enjoy.
But save the ridiculous Chuck Noll Draft, when did anyone really add a bunch of significant players to their roster with the draft? It just doesn't happen.
There are no guarantees, I don't care who you are, assessing what another human being will do in the future is not a science, it isn't even a guess. It is a lottery ticket and nothing more. It sucks to see how low Brady went, but NOBODY knew how good he was.
If there is a science, it may be that the first round is probably a likely place to get someone who can make an impact.
Watkins represents the biggest impact possibility, and he can be had for sure, if we find a way to trade up to #2. If I am the boss, I trade our #4 and Joe Thomas, or our #4 and a #2 to get to #2. The rest of the draft? Who gives a shit......... there are no "thumb-in-your-eye must have players.
Bitch at me all you want about my total distaste at taking Joe Thomas, but WTF impact has he made? I believe we could have had Petersen? Would that pick made us a SB champ? No, but we would have won more games, we would have seen some excitement.
I am close to tuning out the Browns for good and calling it a day. It isn't about losing, it is about making the same stupid ass mistakes over and over and over.
Since 1999 the Browns have not drafted any real impact players. I love Gordon, and I love Gordon, Bess, Watkins.
Watkins has a very high probability of being an immediate impact player. He is within draft reach, and if I am the boss, he is my "at all cost" player. there are plenty of filler players and lard ass dime-a-dozen OL in the later rounds.
The only sin the Browns can make, is NOT going for the jugular and getting the highest probability of an impact player.
Trade Joe Thomas? Are you fucking Retarded? Tell me who then is going to play left tackle.... Please do explain... And no you cannot get future hall of fame all pro tackles a dime a dozen, sorry.... Your stupidity makes my head spin.
So we trade Joe Thomas and whoever is playing QB, presumably Hoyer, gets absolutely plastered from his blindside because we have no left tackle. How fucking effective is Sammy Watkins going to be then genius? Gawd please take that stupidity somewhere else....
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Trade Joe Thomas? Are you fucking Retarded? Tell me who then is going to play left tackle.... Please do explain... And no you cannot get future hall of fame all pro tackles a dime a dozen, sorry.... Your stupidity makes my head spin.
So we trade Joe Thomas and whoever is playing QB, presumably Hoyer, gets absolutely plastered from his blindside because we have no left tackle. How fucking effective is Sammy Watkins going to be then genius? Gawd please take that stupidity somewhere else....
Gunner, you're kind of new here, and I have to clue you in- this is one of our old pal Ghoolie's many incarnations. He Hates offensive linemen- with a passion. The Browns have sucked with Joe Thomas, ergo, they can still suck without him.
Once in a great while, he does have a prediction or two that comes true.
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you are truly RetardedVesnaKociper said:
Does anyone remember who the Browns took after Jim Brown?
Who did Denver take after Elway?
I have to laugh that each draft year guys come in here and lay out their scenarios for each pick. Don't get me wrong, if some of you guys really enjoy all the analysis and the fantasy of selecting a new slate of players who will transform the team, God Bless ya. Enjoy.
But save the ridiculous Chuck Noll Draft, when did anyone really add a bunch of significant players to their roster with the draft? It just doesn't happen.
There are no guarantees, I don't care who you are, assessing what another human being will do in the future is not a science, it isn't even a guess. It is a lottery ticket and nothing more. It sucks to see how low Brady went, but NOBODY knew how good he was.
If there is a science, it may be that the first round is probably a likely place to get someone who can make an impact.
Watkins represents the biggest impact possibility, and he can be had for sure, if we find a way to trade up to #2. If I am the boss, I trade our #4 and Joe Thomas, or our #4 and a #2 to get to #2. The rest of the draft? Who gives a shit......... there are no "thumb-in-your-eye must have players.
Bitch at me all you want about my total distaste at taking Joe Thomas, but WTF impact has he made? I believe we could have had Petersen? Would that pick made us a SB champ? No, but we would have won more games, we would have seen some excitement.
I am close to tuning out the Browns for good and calling it a day. It isn't about losing, it is about making the same stupid ass mistakes over and over and over.
Since 1999 the Browns have not drafted any real impact players. I love Gordon, and I love Gordon, Bess, Watkins.
Watkins has a very high probability of being an immediate impact player. He is within draft reach, and if I am the boss, he is my "at all cost" player. there are plenty of filler players and lard ass dime-a-dozen OL in the later rounds.
The only sin the Browns can make, is NOT going for the jugular and getting the highest probability of an impact player.
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GuNNerGatSKy said:
Trade Joe Thomas? Are you fucking Retarded? Tell me who then is going to play left tackle.... Please do explain... And no you cannot get future hall of fame all pro tackles a dime a dozen, sorry.... Your stupidity makes my head spin.
So we trade Joe Thomas and whoever is playing QB, presumably Hoyer, gets absolutely plastered from his blindside because we have no left tackle. How fucking effective is Sammy Watkins going to be then genius? Gawd please take that stupidity somewhere else....
Gunner, you're kind of new here, and I have to clue you in- this is one of our old pal Ghoolie's many incarnations. He Hates offensive linemen- with a passion. The Browns have sucked with Joe Thomas, ergo, they can still suck without him.
Once in a great while, he does have a prediction or two that comes true.
Gunner, you're kind of new here, and I have to clue you in- this is one of our old pal Ghoolie's many incarnations. He Hates offensive linemen- with a passion. The Browns have sucked with Joe Thomas, ergo, they can still suck without him.
Once in a great while, he does have a prediction or two that comes true.
Really.... That has to be one of the most brilliant approaches to the game of football I have ever heard.... I mean only all the great coaches to ever live say that the game is won in the trenches but who are they right?
God help us all.
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GuNNerGatSKy said:
Trade Joe Thomas? Are you fucking Retarded? Tell me who then is going to play left tackle.... Please do explain... And no you cannot get future hall of fame all pro tackles a dime a dozen, sorry.... Your stupidity makes my head spin.
So we trade Joe Thomas and whoever is playing QB, presumably Hoyer, gets absolutely plastered from his blindside because we have no left tackle. How fucking effective is Sammy Watkins going to be then genius? Gawd please take that stupidity somewhere else....
Gunner, you're kind of new here, and I have to clue you in- this is one of our old pal Ghoolie's many incarnations. He Hates offensive linemen- with a passion. The Browns have sucked with Joe Thomas, ergo, they can still suck without him.
Once in a great while, he does have a prediction or two that comes true.
Gunner, you're kind of new here, and I have to clue you in- this is one of our old pal Ghoolie's many incarnations. He Hates offensive linemen- with a passion. The Browns have sucked with Joe Thomas, ergo, they can still suck without him.
Once in a great while, he does have a prediction or two that comes true.
Ghoolie? Really? I did not know that...
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I'm not in love with Sammy Watkins at 4 really. I'd rather see Mack or clowney at 4 considering how deep this draft is supposed to be at receiver.
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This isn't really to you mik, or anyone in particular, it's just an observation I've made about the draft in general.
There are so many people that keep saying that drafting this guy at this spot would be a reach or taking so-and-so 5 spots before his supposed draft slot would be reaching.
The point is... Say you like a guy and want to draft him. You hold the 8th pick - the guy you want is not seen as a top ten pick, but he will be gone by the 20th pick. If you cannot find a trade partner to drop some and then pick him up, you either take him when you have the chance to do so or he will be gone by the next time you are on the clock.
By this, most teams hold only one first round draft pick, so if there is a player that is a first round talent and he'll be gone by your next pick in the second - There is no way that that is a reach.
Just an observation. Take the players you want when you have the chance to do it.
This isn't really to you mik, or anyone in particular, it's just an observation I've made about the draft in general.
There are so many people that keep saying that drafting this guy at this spot would be a reach or taking so-and-so 5 spots before his supposed draft slot would be reaching.
The point is... Say you like a guy and want to draft him. You hold the 8th pick - the guy you want is not seen as a top ten pick, but he will be gone by the 20th pick. If you cannot find a trade partner to drop some and then pick him up, you either take him when you have the chance to do so or he will be gone by the next time you are on the clock.
By this, most teams hold only one first round draft pick, so if there is a player that is a first round talent and he'll be gone by your next pick in the second - There is no way that that is a reach.
Just an observation. Take the players you want when you have the chance to do it.
You make a good point. "BPA" is definitely subjective. Teams should feel no problem taking the player they want, but if they feel the risk is worth trading down and maybe missing out on a guy is worth the return you get for trading down + still getting a 1st round pick and having another one, that's not too bad either.
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I cannot believe all the love Evans is getting at #4...
If you look in the dictionary under "one-dimensional-WR" there's a pic of Mike Evans.
There are four elite players in this draft... and Evans ain't one of them..
I cannot believe all the love Evans is getting at #4...
If you look in the dictionary under "one-dimensional-WR" there's a pic of Mike Evans.
There are four elite players in this draft... and Evans ain't one of them..
Evans isn't a bad option if the only elite player left is a LT. You don't want to tie first round money into a RT. Having 3 6'3"+ guys on the field at the same time in Evans, Gordon, and Cameron..someone is gonna have a mismatch. I want Watkins over Evans as well but I'm not really sure we'd regret taking Evans. I don't get you calling Mike Evans one dimensional, he's a 6'5" guy who is an above-average athlete for his height, and has good hands...sounds like the sky is the limit for a guy like that, especially with guys like Ben Tate, Gordon, and Cameron taking attention from him.
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I cannot believe all the love Evans is getting at #4...
If you look in the dictionary under "one-dimensional-WR" there's a pic of Mike Evans.
There are four elite players in this draft... and Evans ain't one of them..
Evans isn't a bad option if the only elite player left is a LT. You don't want to tie first round money into a RT. Having 3 6'3"+ guys on the field at the same time in Evans, Gordon, and Cameron..someone is gonna have a mismatch. I want Watkins over Evans as well but I'm not really sure we'd regret taking Evans. I don't get you calling Mike Evans one dimensional, he's a 6'5" guy who is an above-average athlete for his height, and has good hands...sounds like the sky is the limit for a guy like that, especially with guys like Ben Tate, Gordon, and Cameron taking attention from him.
I don't get you calling Mike Evans one dimensional, he's a 6'5" guy who is an above-average athlete for his height, and has good hands...sounds like the sky is the limit for a guy like that, especially with guys like Ben Tate, Gordon, and Cameron taking attention from him.
I understand I am way out on a very lonely limb here, but I've watched a good deal of tape on the 2013 Ags and breakdown tape on their big three: Manziel, Evans and Mathews.
I like Jake most of all and think he is the best tackle in the draft. While I am not a JF fan, at least I get the JF attraction... I think it's fools gold, but I get it. On the other hand, I totally do not get the Evans attraction for the next level.
Evans fears going over the middle... has a bad case of gator arms... and will lead the league in Offensive Pass interference.
His one-dimension is as follows:
He pushes off... runs fly patterns (occasionally pulling up for a hook)... then pushes off... and jumps.
Two of those four things are illegal in the NFL.
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I don't get you calling Mike Evans one dimensional, he's a 6'5" guy who is an above-average athlete for his height, and has good hands...sounds like the sky is the limit for a guy like that, especially with guys like Ben Tate, Gordon, and Cameron taking attention from him.
I understand I am way out on a very lonely limb here, but I've watched a good deal of tape on the 2013 Ags and breakdown tape on their big three: Manziel, Evans and Mathews.
I like Jake most of all and think he is the best tackle in the draft. While I am not a JF fan, at least I get the JF attraction... I think it's fools gold, but I get it. On the other hand, I totally do not get the Evans attraction for the next level.
Evans fears going over the middle... has a bad case of gator arms... and will lead the league in Offensive Pass interference.
His one-dimension is as follows:
He pushes off... runs fly patterns (occasionally pulling up for a hook)... then pushes off... and jumps.
Two of those four things are illegal in the NFL.
I understand I am way out on a very lonely limb here, but I've watched a good deal of tape on the 2013 Ags and breakdown tape on their big three: Manziel, Evans and Mathews.
I like Jake most of all and think he is the best tackle in the draft. While I am not a JF fan, at least I get the JF attraction... I think it's fools gold, but I get it. On the other hand, I totally do not get the Evans attraction for the next level.
Evans fears going over the middle... has a bad case of gator arms... and will lead the league in Offensive Pass interference.
His one-dimension is as follows:
He pushes off... runs fly patterns (occasionally pulling up for a hook)... then pushes off... and jumps.
Two of those four things are illegal in the NFL.
I think Evans is the second biggest boom or bust candidate behind Manziel. Evans has the physical attributes but is far from a complete WR. I can't guarantee either of their careers but I can guarantee this A&M team/prospects will make for a hell of a 30 for 30 in about 20 years.
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Gordon was very far from being a complete receiver too. Cameron didn't hit right away either.
Obviously receivers need work, very few are complete WR's coming into the NFL, it's up to coaching to make that happen.
Evans doesn't have to go over the middle and I'm pretty sure he'll adjust. Watkins would be great, but Evans is not a bad consolation prize.
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I figured this was going to get made at some point today. Hopefully it keeps things a little more organized throughout the next 3 days.
With that said, NFL on ESPN just tweeted that the Texans are locked into a player at #1 and will not be trading out of the spot, so don't expect any big shake-ups with the first pick tonight. They haven't announced who that player is, though. Suspense is better for ratings.
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