New Browns Fans Introduce Yourselves
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@everlastingxxx said:
Super Bowl? Hell id take a playoff win. Yea i looked at the Browns history the other day. Lots of titles in the 40s and 50s. I know i tried to find out why they were named the Browns, but they claim it was not named after the coach. Seems kindof ironic. Also, why no logo? They ever thought about adding one? What did Browns fan do when the team suspended operations. Did fans follow any other team? Just questions i had in my head.
Oh shit, Hoyer just got hurt.
OK, yea, the last time I remember the Cowboys had a playoff win about as long ago as the Browns did. (Last year: 1994).
Beyond the Browns, Northeast Ohio had other NFL titles: Cleveland Rams, Cleveland/Canton Bulldogs. THE very first NFL title was won by the Akron Pros.
And, if you didn't know, Dallas had a team that had to play some of its home games in Akron.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Texans_(NFL)
(If you would like us to again host one of your home games I am sure we could somehow accomodate you.)
Also, in case you didn't know, the Cowboys are not the only team in Dallas to win a championships......another second Dallas Texans team nka the Kansas City Chiefs won the AFL title in 1962.
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She is herself, now a cheerleader in Texas.
*whistles* hellooooooooo, lil Gip!
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@everlastingxxx said:
Interesting info. Thanks. Actually the Cowboys last playoff win was a few years ago against the Eagles. The Saints Super Bowl year.
Damn, Mingo lite up this Bills WR.
That's what I thought....but before that they had gone as long as the Browns in winning a postseason game.
But I still think the Foozlers have even gone longer than the Browns in winning a postseason game, even though they haven't had to go through the crap the Browns have. I mean the whole reconstitution thing....and while we have had 4 different owners they have the same one.
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No, I am giving you a lesson about history and truth. If you don't want to learn facts..and if you want to spew falsehoods that you think are facts then you need to slap yourself upside the head and say :wake up!
I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
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No, I am giving you a lesson about history and truth. If you don't want to learn facts..and if you want to spew falsehoods that you think are facts then you need to slap yourself upside the head and say :wake up!
I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
Gipper will give you the details but the gist...the 1995 TEAM moved to Baltimore, the franchise never left. It suspended operations until a new team was formed and began playing in the 1999 season.
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I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
Gipper will give you the details but the gist...the 1995 TEAM moved to Baltimore, the franchise never left. It suspended operations until a new team was formed and began playing in the 1999 season.
Gipper will give you the details but the gist...the 1995 TEAM moved to Baltimore, the franchise never left. It suspended operations until a new team was formed and began playing in the 1999 season.
So.....the argument is semantics?
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No, I am giving you a lesson about history and truth. If you don't want to learn facts..and if you want to spew falsehoods that you think are facts then you need to slap yourself upside the head and say :wake up!
I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
Fuck NO, that is NOT what happened. That is why I said that it is an education for you.
Like I said, the Browns franchise NEVER moved. It simply went inactive from field play. ..but it continued to operatie right out of the same facility in Berea that is being used today. The franchise never discontinued. The NFL appointed an Trustee to operate it (a guy name Bill Futterer) until certain decisions could be made about it. Those decisions were A. will we reactivate the franchise through an expansion like process....setting out ownership thereof through bids, or B. Will we award the Browns franchise to a current owner and put that current owners current team on inactive status...or discontinue it. The league chose the former, and Al Lerner was the succesful bidder for the ownership of the Cleveland Browns franchise...and the franchise was put on a schedule for on field reactivation...which occurred in 1999.
A brand new NFL franchise that became known as the Baltimore Ravens was created, and Modell was granted ownership of that new franchise by the NFL. Certain assets were assigned to that new franchise. Most notably, a couple of dozen player contracts, and the Browns draft positioning. Assigning an asset is not by any means the same as being the same owner.
Its like, if I sold or assigned my assets, say my 1956 Ford Fairlane and my print of Salvador Dali's Hallucinegenic Toreador to you....that does not mean you are now "The Gipper". You are you....and you now the owner of that 1956 Ford Fairlane and a print of the Dali painting, but you didn't assume my identity.
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I'm incredibly confused. "Historically" speaking I was sure Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore and changed the name of the team. And in 99 Cleveland got a franchise, which is now the Cleveland Browns..... Is that NOT what happened?
Gipper will give you the details but the gist...the 1995 TEAM moved to Baltimore, the franchise never left. It suspended operations until a new team was formed and began playing in the 1999 season.
Gipper will give you the details but the gist...the 1995 TEAM moved to Baltimore, the franchise never left. It suspended operations until a new team was formed and began playing in the 1999 season.
Well, it wasn't really even "The team". Art Modell went....but not even half of the front offics staff went. The GM didn't go. The head coach and all the coaching staff didn't go. Some jock straps and shoulder pads may have gone....but I am not even sure of that. Modell didn't even take his desk. But like I said, some players went (though there was about a 50% if not turnover in personell in that one year.), and the draft positioning...which the Browns could not use due to the inactivity, went.
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So.....the argument is semantics?
It is by NO means semantics. It was very real, actual legal, factual matters at hand.
I mean, I don't think it takes a law degree like I have to understand it, but it was all spelled out in the settlement agreement that was reached in the legal case involving a variety of parties (The Cities of Cleveland and Baltimore, the States of Ohio and Maryland, Modell, the NFL...Cuyahoga County...maybe others).
I mean, is it semantics if you get a divorce from your wife? Do you think you are still married to her, that you have just moved your residence? No.
I am not sure how to explain this easier in layman's turn.
I guess a better analogy is take the owner of a Burger King franchise that owns his burger joint at W. 3rd st., Cleveland, Ohio.
You go to Baltimore, and Burger King gives you a new franchise in Baltimore and you take some pots and pans with you from your other franchise. Well, you now run a new Burger King...but that one on W. 3rd in Cleveland is still there under new management and with renovated facilities, albeit it had to shut down for a while. But it is still the W 3rd St. Burger King.
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So.....the argument is semantics?
It is by NO means semantics. It was very real, actual legal, factual matters at hand.
I mean, I don't think it takes a law degree like I have to understand it, but it was all spelled out in the settlement agreement that was reached in the legal case involving a variety of parties (The Cities of Cleveland and Baltimore, the States of Ohio and Maryland, Modell, the NFL...Cuyahoga County...maybe others).
I mean, is it semantics if you get a divorce from your wife? Do you think you are still married to her, that you have just moved your residence? No.
I am not sure how to explain this easier in layman's turn.
I guess a better analogy is take the owner of a Burger King franchise that owns his burger joint at W. 3rd st., Cleveland, Ohio.
You go to Baltimore, and Burger King gives you a new franchise in Baltimore and you take some pots and pans with you from your other franchise. Well, you now run a new Burger King...but that one on W. 3rd in Cleveland is still there under new management and with renovated facilities, albeit it had to shut down for a while. But it is still the W 3rd St. Burger King.
It is by NO means semantics. It was very real, actual legal, factual matters at hand.
I mean, I don't think it takes a law degree like I have to understand it, but it was all spelled out in the settlement agreement that was reached in the legal case involving a variety of parties (The Cities of Cleveland and Baltimore, the States of Ohio and Maryland, Modell, the NFL...Cuyahoga County...maybe others).
I mean, is it semantics if you get a divorce from your wife? Do you think you are still married to her, that you have just moved your residence? No.
I am not sure how to explain this easier in layman's turn.
I guess a better analogy is take the owner of a Burger King franchise that owns his burger joint at W. 3rd st., Cleveland, Ohio.
You go to Baltimore, and Burger King gives you a new franchise in Baltimore and you take some pots and pans with you from your other franchise. Well, you now run a new Burger King...but that one on W. 3rd in Cleveland is still there under new management and with renovated facilities, albeit it had to shut down for a while. But it is still the W 3rd St. Burger King.
Great...the original comment was just referring to the time frame. Who stayed behind or the legal issues...whatever. I was a Browns fan b4 WHATEVER HAPPENED HAPPENED. That's all.
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Gipper will give you the details but the gist...the 1995 TEAM moved to Baltimore, the franchise never left. It suspended operations until a new team was formed and began playing in the 1999 season.
Well, it wasn't really even "The team". Art Modell went....but not even half of the front offics staff went. The GM didn't go. The head coach and all the coaching staff didn't go. Some jock straps and shoulder pads may have gone....but I am not even sure of that. Modell didn't even take his desk. But like I said, some players went (though there was about a 50% if not turnover in personell in that one year.), and the draft positioning...which the Browns could not use due to the inactivity, went.
Well, it wasn't really even "The team". Art Modell went....but not even half of the front offics staff went. The GM didn't go. The head coach and all the coaching staff didn't go. Some jock straps and shoulder pads may have gone....but I am not even sure of that. Modell didn't even take his desk. But like I said, some players went (though there was about a 50% if not turnover in personell in that one year.), and the draft positioning...which the Browns could not use due to the inactivity, went.
The "team" actually did go. Whether or not they were asked or wanted to stay there is immaterial.
The team went, the franchise stayed. That's all there is to it.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I always liked the Browns even when I was a kid and they had Bernie Kosar, Ozzie Newsome,Webster Slaughter, Leroy Hoard, Eric Metcalf and Michael Jackson and even Derek Alexander who I thought was going to be pretty special but then he moved with the old Browns team to become a Raven. I am now a fan because of Johnny Manziel. I have watched every single game of his at A&M starting from his very first start against the Florida Gators. I was very happy that he got drafted to Cleveland because I felt like he was a perfect fit here. It's too bad that Josh Gordon got in trouble again because this took a lot of wind out of the sails.
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Well, it wasn't really even "The team". Art Modell went....but not even half of the front offics staff went. The GM didn't go. The head coach and all the coaching staff didn't go. Some jock straps and shoulder pads may have gone....but I am not even sure of that. Modell didn't even take his desk. But like I said, some players went (though there was about a 50% if not turnover in personell in that one year.), and the draft positioning...which the Browns could not use due to the inactivity, went.
The "team" actually did go. Whether or not they were asked or wanted to stay there is immaterial.
The team went, the franchise stayed. That's all there is to it.
The "team" actually did go. Whether or not they were asked or wanted to stay there is immaterial.
The team went, the franchise stayed. That's all there is to it.
What constitutes the "team". The "team" known as the Cleveland Browns didn't go. And FYI, all the owners of that "team" didn't go there. Both Bob Gries and Al Lerner were minority owners of the Cleveland Browns at the time. In order for Modell to be able to be given the rights to the Ravens franchise he had to buy out both Gries and Lerner. Modell only owned 53% of the Browns. I believe he ended up owning 100% of the Ravens.So, in reality, even the ownership of the Ravens was NOT the same as the Browns. Obviously we know that the team history/colors/etc. didn't go. The coaches didn't go.
Some of the players went, yes, because they were under contract and their contracts were assigned to the new franchise.
Many didn't. At least one that I know (Steve Everitt) essentially refused to go....and he was either released or traded. A bunch of players were just let go. Sure, enough names went....Vinny and Craig Powell.
Let's just say that some remnants of the team moved....but certainly not the whole team.
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The "team" actually did go. Whether or not they were asked or wanted to stay there is immaterial.
The team went, the franchise stayed. That's all there is to it.
What constitutes the "team". The "team" known as the Cleveland Browns didn't go. And FYI, all the owners of that "team" didn't go there. Both Bob Gries and Al Lerner were minority owners of the Cleveland Browns at the time. In order for Modell to be able to be given the rights to the Ravens franchise he had to buy out both Gries and Lerner. Modell only owned 53% of the Browns. I believe he ended up owning 100% of the Ravens.So, in reality, even the ownership of the Ravens was NOT the same as the Browns. Obviously we know that the team history/colors/etc. didn't go. The coaches didn't go.
Some of the players went, yes, because they were under contract and their contracts were assigned to the new franchise.
Many didn't. At least one that I know (Steve Everitt) essentially refused to go....and he was either released or traded. A bunch of players were just let go. Sure, enough names went....Vinny and Craig Powell.
Let's just say that some remnants of the team moved....but certainly not the whole team.
What constitutes the "team". The "team" known as the Cleveland Browns didn't go. And FYI, all the owners of that "team" didn't go there. Both Bob Gries and Al Lerner were minority owners of the Cleveland Browns at the time. In order for Modell to be able to be given the rights to the Ravens franchise he had to buy out both Gries and Lerner. Modell only owned 53% of the Browns. I believe he ended up owning 100% of the Ravens.So, in reality, even the ownership of the Ravens was NOT the same as the Browns. Obviously we know that the team history/colors/etc. didn't go. The coaches didn't go.
Some of the players went, yes, because they were under contract and their contracts were assigned to the new franchise.
Many didn't. At least one that I know (Steve Everitt) essentially refused to go....and he was either released or traded. A bunch of players were just let go. Sure, enough names went....Vinny and Craig Powell.
Let's just say that some remnants of the team moved....but certainly not the whole team.
What do you think constitutes a team in this scenario?
Are Jimmy Haslam and Ray Farmer strapping on pads and playing? No. They are part of the "team" in the broadest sense of the definition, but are they practicing during organized TEAM activities? Do they have lockers in the team locker room? No. They're not part of the team. They're management and ownership.
The team colors aren't the team. The owners aren't the team. The team history isn't the team. That's part of the franchise.
The team is the team. The players on the field. The actual team is the team. You know that, you're just arguing to be a difficult douchebag.
All of the players currently under contract were asked to go. Whether some of them refused is immaterial. They were still contractually obligated to go.
So, yes...the team went.
Stop trying to validate it.
The team moved. The franchise stayed. That's literally all there is to it.
Get over it already, it happened over a decade ago. Jesus fucking christ.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Slightly off topic, but can anyone explain why Bud Adams was able to take the Oilers and Houston was unable to name the new team "Oilers"? Also I understand that he even kept ownership of the Oilers records from the Luv Ya Blue days - even Earl Campbell's are displayed when no connection with Titans.
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What constitutes the "team". The "team" known as the Cleveland Browns didn't go. And FYI, all the owners of that "team" didn't go there. Both Bob Gries and Al Lerner were minority owners of the Cleveland Browns at the time. In order for Modell to be able to be given the rights to the Ravens franchise he had to buy out both Gries and Lerner. Modell only owned 53% of the Browns. I believe he ended up owning 100% of the Ravens.So, in reality, even the ownership of the Ravens was NOT the same as the Browns. Obviously we know that the team history/colors/etc. didn't go. The coaches didn't go.
Some of the players went, yes, because they were under contract and their contracts were assigned to the new franchise.
Many didn't. At least one that I know (Steve Everitt) essentially refused to go....and he was either released or traded. A bunch of players were just let go. Sure, enough names went....Vinny and Craig Powell.
Let's just say that some remnants of the team moved....but certainly not the whole team.
What do you think constitutes a team in this scenario?
Are Jimmy Haslam and Ray Farmer strapping on pads and playing? No. They are part of the "team" in the broadest sense of the definition, but are they practicing during organized TEAM activities? Do they have lockers in the team locker room? No. They're not part of the team. They're management and ownership.
The team colors aren't the team. The owners aren't the team. The team history isn't the team. That's part of the franchise.
The team is the team. The players on the field. The actual team is the team. You know that, you're just arguing to be a difficult douchebag.
All of the players currently under contract were asked to go. Whether some of them refused is immaterial. They were still contractually obligated to go.
So, yes...the team went.
Stop trying to validate it.
The team moved. The franchise stayed. That's literally all there is to it.
Get over it already, it happened over a decade ago. Jesus fucking christ.
What do you think constitutes a team in this scenario?
Are Jimmy Haslam and Ray Farmer strapping on pads and playing? No. They are part of the "team" in the broadest sense of the definition, but are they practicing during organized TEAM activities? Do they have lockers in the team locker room? No. They're not part of the team. They're management and ownership.
The team colors aren't the team. The owners aren't the team. The team history isn't the team. That's part of the franchise.
The team is the team. The players on the field. The actual team is the team. You know that, you're just arguing to be a difficult douchebag.
No, I am arguing that all those things that you say aren't the team, in fact may be the most durable aspect of a team.
All of the players currently under contract were asked to go. Whether some of them refused is immaterial. They were still contractually obligated to go.
So, yes...the team went.
Stop trying to validate it.
Players, to an NFL team are nothing but fungible assets. They are nothing but cornseed. By your defintion then the Browns team of last year has now moved on almost as much as that team back in 1995. The Browns moved to Dallas because Weeden is now in Dallas, or they are in Denver because TJ Ward is in Denver, they moved to wherever DQJackson went...or to wherever Jason Campbell is now, where Sean Lauvao is now (Washington), they are in Indianapolis because that is where Trent Richardson is, Oakland because that is where Greg Little is.
Honestly, players are about as critical to what a "team" is as the dirty laundry bags full of uniforms that the equipment managers haul around. Perhaps that is where the team is: in the laundry hamper. Players are as fungible as those dirty unis.
The team moved. The franchise stayed. That's literally all there is to it.
Get over it already, it happened over a decade ago. Jesus fucking christ.
Well, if you want to fuck Jesus Christ, perhaps you need to be named Mary Magdelene.. All I am doing is setting the historical fact straight for some of the newbie JFF fans we have here. I mean, you wouldn't want them to believe that Texas won the Civil War, would you?
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Slightly off topic, but can anyone explain why Bud Adams was able to take the Oilers and Houston was unable to name the new team "Oilers"? Also I understand that he even kept ownership of the Oilers records from the Luv Ya Blue days - even Earl Campbell's are displayed when no connection with Titans.
Slightly off topic, but can anyone explain why Bud Adams was able to take the Oilers and Houston was unable to name the new team "Oilers"? Also I understand that he even kept ownership of the Oilers records from the Luv Ya Blue days - even Earl Campbell's are displayed when no connection with Titans.
Well, what occurred in Houston is not what occurred in Cleveland. There, the franchise, the team, the history, the colors, everything, the whole lock, stock and barrell were allowed to move, unlike here.
Here, the Cleveland Browns are a continuous franchise going back to their origins in the 1946 season in the AAFC.
The Tennessee Titans franchise however is one continuous franchise going back to the 1960 season in the AFL when they were begun as the Houston Oilers. The Titans/Oilers franchise moved and merely underwent a name change. In fact they used the name Oilers for a couple of years. Here is their team record:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/
Compare that to the Browns:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/
Or the Ravens:
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