Extending the Olive Branch
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I think your team will be gone within a decade.
I found this statistic on market area rankings:
NFL "Designated Market Area" (DMA) rankings by size1./New York Jets3. Chicago Bears4. Philadelphia Eagles5. Dallas Cowboys6. San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders7. New England Patriots8. Atlanta Falcons9. Washington Redskins10. Houston Texans11. Detroit Lions12. Arizona Cardinals13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers14. Seattle Seahawks15. Minnesota Vikings16. Miami Dolphins17. Cleveland Browns18. Denver Broncos21. St. Louis Rams23. Pittsburgh Steelers24. Carolina Panthers25. Indianapolis Colts26. Baltimore Ravens28. San Diego Chargers29. Tennessee Titans31. Kansas City Chiefs34. Cincinnati Bengals47. Jacksonville Jaguars51. Buffalo Bills53. New Orleans Saints70. Green Bay PackersNFL DMA rankings by division
AFC East1. New York Jets7. New England Patriots16. Miami Dolphins51. Buffalo BillsAFC North17. Cleveland Browns23. Pittsburgh Steelers26. Baltimore Ravens34. Cincinnati BengalsAFC South10. Houston Texans25. Indianapolis Colts29. Tennessee Titans47. Jacksonville JaguarsAFC West6. Oakland Raiders18. Denver Broncos28. San Diego Chargers31. Kansas City ChiefsNFC East1. New York Giants4. Philadelphia Eagles5. Dallas Cowboys9. Washington RedskinsNFC North3. Chicago Bears11. Detroit Lions15. Minnesota Vikings70. Green Bay PackersNFC South8. Atlanta Falcons13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers24. Carolina Panthers53. New Orleans SaintsNFC West6. San Francisco 49ers12. Arizona Cardinals14. Seattle Seahawks21. St. Louis RamsAverage DMA size/ranking by division
1.(4.75)2.(13.25)3.(18.75)4.(20.75)5. NFC South (24.50)6.(24.75)7.(25.00)8.(27.75)Notes
All four teams in the NFC East are located in top-10 DMAs. Conversely, the AFC North has no teams located in top-10 DMAs.Aside from the NFC East, the AFC East is the only division with more than one team located in a top-10 DMA.The NFC North has both the smallest DMA and the largest single-team DMA in the NFL.The average NFC DMA ranking is 16.81, compared to 23.07 in the AFC. The median NFC DMA is 11.5, compared to 24.0 in the AFC.
I think your team will be gone within a decade.
I found this statistic on market area rankings:
NFL "Designated Market Area" (DMA) rankings by sizeNFL DMA rankings by division1. New York Giants/New York Jets
3. Chicago Bears
4. Philadelphia Eagles
5. Dallas Cowboys
6. San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders
7. New England Patriots
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. Washington Redskins
10. Houston Texans
11. Detroit Lions
12. Arizona Cardinals
13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
14. Seattle Seahawks
15. Minnesota Vikings
16. Miami Dolphins
17. Cleveland Browns
18. Denver Broncos
21. St. Louis Rams
23. Pittsburgh Steelers
24. Carolina Panthers
25. Indianapolis Colts
26. Baltimore Ravens
28. San Diego Chargers
29. Tennessee Titans
31. Kansas City Chiefs
34. Cincinnati Bengals
47. Jacksonville Jaguars
51. Buffalo Bills
53. New Orleans Saints
70. Green Bay Packers
Average DMA size/ranking by divisionAFC East
1. New York Jets
7. New England Patriots
16. Miami Dolphins
51. Buffalo Bills
AFC North
17. Cleveland Browns
23. Pittsburgh Steelers
26. Baltimore Ravens
34. Cincinnati Bengals
AFC South
10. Houston Texans
25. Indianapolis Colts
29. Tennessee Titans
47. Jacksonville Jaguars
AFC West
6. Oakland Raiders
18. Denver Broncos
28. San Diego Chargers
31. Kansas City Chiefs
NFC East
1. New York Giants
4. Philadelphia Eagles
5. Dallas Cowboys
9. Washington Redskins
NFC North
3. Chicago Bears
11. Detroit Lions
15. Minnesota Vikings
70. Green Bay Packers
NFC South
8. Atlanta Falcons
13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
24. Carolina Panthers
53. New Orleans Saints
NFC West
6. San Francisco 49ers
12. Arizona Cardinals
14. Seattle Seahawks
21. St. Louis Rams
1.(4.75)2.(13.25)3.(18.75)4.(20.75)5. NFC South (24.50)6.(24.75)7.(25.00)8.(27.75)Notes
All four teams in the NFC East are located in top-10 DMAs. Conversely, the AFC North has no teams located in top-10 DMAs.Aside from the NFC East, the AFC East is the only division with more than one team located in a top-10 DMA.The NFC North has both the smallest DMA and the largest single-team DMA in the NFL.The average NFC DMA ranking is 16.81, compared to 23.07 in the AFC. The median NFC DMA is 11.5, compared to 24.0 in the AFC.That's not really indicative of how many people watch football in those areas, just the size/population of the team's home city. In the case of the Bills, I'm sure they don't count Ontario or Toronto which is actually where 20% of our season ticket holder fanbase is from. The Browns are also ranked better in viewership than your list credits them for. The link below from ratings taken over the 2013 season are a better indication and track actual viewership of team's fans. You might be surprised to find the Bills ranked 11th in the whole league. The Browns aren't far behind at 14th. Not bad for two small market teams.
http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2014/01/15/buffalo-no-11-in-nfl-tv-ratings.html?ana=twt
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No right thinking individual would want to see the Bills move out.
But, when it comes to money, you don't deal with right thinking individuals, you deal with greedmongers. And there are sufficient greedmongers among the rest of the owners of the NFL such that if more bucks were to be made by allowing the Bills to move elsewhere, they would want to go that route.
While this situation get personified in Roger Goodell, it is actually his bosses that control his strings. If it seems like he is licking his lips over getting a team put in LA, it is because the other owners are playing Pavlov to his dog. The same with putting a team in London...which is stupid beyond belief....but these squishbugs think that will bring them money from TV or something.
I personally think that strengthening the ties to Toronto could help the Bills. But I don't know if the good people of Toronto are all that enthused about the arrangement. If Toronto and Buffalo were tied together, then the Bills would not be in 51st overall DMA....but in one of the largest....if a Bills/Toronto TV package could somehow be worked out and be successful.
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I think your team will be gone within a decade.
I found this statistic on market area rankings:
NFL "Designated Market Area" (DMA) rankings by sizeNFL DMA rankings by division1. New York Giants/New York Jets
3. Chicago Bears
4. Philadelphia Eagles
5. Dallas Cowboys
6. San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders
7. New England Patriots
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. Washington Redskins
10. Houston Texans
11. Detroit Lions
12. Arizona Cardinals
13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
14. Seattle Seahawks
15. Minnesota Vikings
16. Miami Dolphins
17. Cleveland Browns
18. Denver Broncos
21. St. Louis Rams
23. Pittsburgh Steelers
24. Carolina Panthers
25. Indianapolis Colts
26. Baltimore Ravens
28. San Diego Chargers
29. Tennessee Titans
31. Kansas City Chiefs
34. Cincinnati Bengals
47. Jacksonville Jaguars
51. Buffalo Bills
53. New Orleans Saints
70. Green Bay Packers
Average DMA size/ranking by divisionAFC East
1. New York Jets
7. New England Patriots
16. Miami Dolphins
51. Buffalo Bills
AFC North
17. Cleveland Browns
23. Pittsburgh Steelers
26. Baltimore Ravens
34. Cincinnati Bengals
AFC South
10. Houston Texans
25. Indianapolis Colts
29. Tennessee Titans
47. Jacksonville Jaguars
AFC West
6. Oakland Raiders
18. Denver Broncos
28. San Diego Chargers
31. Kansas City Chiefs
NFC East
1. New York Giants
4. Philadelphia Eagles
5. Dallas Cowboys
9. Washington Redskins
NFC North
3. Chicago Bears
11. Detroit Lions
15. Minnesota Vikings
70. Green Bay Packers
NFC South
8. Atlanta Falcons
13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
24. Carolina Panthers
53. New Orleans Saints
NFC West
6. San Francisco 49ers
12. Arizona Cardinals
14. Seattle Seahawks
21. St. Louis Rams
1.(4.75)2.(13.25)3.(18.75)4.(20.75)5. NFC South (24.50)6.(24.75)7.(25.00)8.(27.75)Notes
All four teams in the NFC East are located in top-10 DMAs. Conversely, the AFC North has no teams located in top-10 DMAs.Aside from the NFC East, the AFC East is the only division with more than one team located in a top-10 DMA.The NFC North has both the smallest DMA and the largest single-team DMA in the NFL.The average NFC DMA ranking is 16.81, compared to 23.07 in the AFC. The median NFC DMA is 11.5, compared to 24.0 in the AFC.That's not really indicative of how many people watch football in those areas, just the size/population of the team's home city. In the case of the Bills, I'm sure they don't count Ontario or Toronto which is actually where 20% of our season ticket holder fanbase is from. The Browns are also ranked better in viewership than your list credits them for. The link below from ratings taken over the 2013 season are a better indication and track actual viewership of team's fans. You might be surprised to find the Bills ranked 11th in the whole league. The Browns aren't far behind at 14th. Not bad for two small market teams.
http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2014/01/15/buffalo-no-11-in-nfl-tv-ratings.html?ana=twt
That's not really indicative of how many people watch football in those areas, just the size/population of the team's home city. In the case of the Bills, I'm sure they don't count Ontario or Toronto which is actually where 20% of our season ticket holder fanbase is from. The Browns are also ranked better in viewership than your list credits them for. The link below from ratings taken over the 2013 season are a better indication and track actual viewership of team's fans. You might be surprised to find the Bills ranked 11th in the whole league. The Browns aren't far behind at 14th. Not bad for two small market teams.
http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2014/01/15/buffalo-no-11-in-nfl-tv-ratings.html?ana=twt
If that link seems to imply that the likes of Buffalo and Cleveland have a lesser percentage of its market watching its team games than some of the markets with higher numbers, then I say that whoever put this together had the head straight up their fucking assholes.
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Absolutely I support the Bills staying in Buffalo!
Diehardbrownsfan is a jackass don't listen to him. When Art "the traitor" Moddell decided to abandon his Cleveland franchise in favor of owning one in Baltimore, the hearts of millions of Browns fans were broken, particularly those of families such as mine that have bled Brown and orange for decades. You are absolutely right that small market teams are important to the league. Small market teams have the most devout, rabid fans without question. I believe the Browns have the most diehard professional sports fans on planet earth.
This Browns fan stands behind you and your team staying in Buffalo!
GO BROWNS AND BILLS!
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Absolutely I support the Bills staying in Buffalo!
Diehardbrownsfan is a jackass don't listen to him. When Art "the traitor" Moddell decided to abandon his Cleveland franchise in favor of owning one in Baltimore, the hearts of millions of Browns fans were broken, particularly those of families such as mine that have bled Brown and orange for decades. You are absolutely right that small market teams are important to the league. Small market teams have the most devout, rabid fans without question. I believe the Browns have the most diehard professional sports fans on planet earth.
This Browns fan stands behind you and your team staying in Buffalo!
GO BROWNS AND BILLS!
I didn't say I wanted them to leave, I said I think they will leave. I think Jacksonville will leave also.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
I don't want them to leave, but the voices of the fans won't mean that much if they decide to.
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I don't necessarily agree and here's why; No NFL team has ever been relocated since the advent of social media. Look at all the craziness that went down when the Browns were moved. Browns fans raised hell, and rightfully so. Can you imagine what would have went down if Facebook and Twitter had been around granting the ability for massive organization almost instantly? We're talking public backlash so severe it would be a an absolute PR nightmare for the NFL. I'd be willing to wager the Brown's attempted relocation would have turned out a lot differently had it taken place today instead of 1996. A city that's not so crazy about football like Jacksonville or Miami maybe, but not Cleveland or Buffalo. There would be hell to pay.
Of course you both could be right and that could be my wishful thinking & rose-colored glasses.
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I don't necessarily agree and here's why; No NFL team has ever been relocated since the advent of social media. Look at all the craziness that went down when the Browns were moved. Browns fans raised hell, and rightfully so. Can you imagine what would have went down if Facebook and Twitter had been around granting the ability for massive organization almost instantly? We're talking public backlash so severe it would be a an absolute PR nightmare for the NFL. I'd be willing to wager the Brown's attempted relocation would have turned out a lot differently had it taken place today instead of 1996. A city that's not so crazy about football like Jacksonville or Miami maybe, but not Cleveland or Buffalo. There would be hell to pay.
Of course you both could be right and that could be my wishful thinking & rose-colored glasses.
...could be my wishful thinking & rose-colored glasses.
No shame in that at all...
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If the Bills ever leave Buffalo I will be pissed. They deserve a team. Also, the yearly game in Toronto is bullshit.
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Thank god they cancelled the Toronto game this year. I hope tell Rogers Media to go fuck themselves and cancel the series all together.
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Thank god they cancelled the Toronto game this year. I hope tell Rogers Media to go fuck themselves and cancel the series all together.
Thank god they cancelled the Toronto game this year. I hope tell Rogers Media to go fuck themselves and cancel the series all together.
So, what is the current status about potential ownership groups, stadium renovation/new stadium.
What's the buzz, tell us what's a happening.
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Nothing is for certain of course, but here's what seems to be unfolding:
-Ralph Wilson left the Bills in a trust of 4 people including his Wife, his niece, his lawyer, and the Bills Chief Financial Officer. They alone will be voting on who to sell the team to, however whoever they decide can be vetoed by the other league owners. Judging by how the the last relocation vote(Browns) went I'm not too confident in other owners.-It's generally accepted by everyone involved that the construction of a new stadium is a condition of the Bills staying in Western New York. Potentially locations being discussed are Niagara Falls, Downtown Buffalo, or Batavia.
-$130 million in renovations expected to be finished this offseason are expected to do for now. They're adding some cool stuff: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/6-reasons-to-be-excited-about-the-Ralph-Wilson-Stadium-renovations/d9ae82f2-7c6e-4d78-adfa-1b60fb0a62b2
-Ralph Wilson's last gift to the area, which we found out after his passing, was secretly having his lawyers, the state, and Eerie County craft a secondary document attached to the new lease signed a couple years ago which basically prevents anyone from moving the team within the next 6 years. If they try, they'd have to win the right to in court and THEN pay a $150 million relocation penalty IF they won that court case.
-The largest threat to the team staying in Buffalo is perceived to be Bon Jovi's group which includes Rogers Media in Toronto. They've got the money and they've got the clout. Fans are already banding together to send a big "fuck you" to him with local bars/restaurants/djs/bands signing commitments to not play his music in their establishments and fan groups like http://www.12thmanthunder.com circulating petitions. Here's a sign you can expect to see if you go into a bar or nightclub here:
-Our best hope for keeping the team in Buffalo ownership-wise is probably the group associated with Jim Kelly, but he's recently been battling with some really bad cancer so who knows how that will turn out. Donald Trump has expressed interest in keeping the Bills here, but that's a steep price to pay. I can't imagine having someone like that owning my team.
I personally would stop watching the NFL completely if the Bills moved. Forever. Though you'll probably get a kick out of the fact that a lot of fellow Bills fans say they'd become Browns fans if they were forced to root for another team. There was just a big thread about it on a Bills forum not to long ago.
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So, what is the deal with Bon Jovi.....is he outwardly stating that he will move the team? And to where? Toronto? LA? Asbury Park?
Why put 130 mill into a facility if one of the probable conditions of keeping the team there is a new stadium? Put that money into the new stadium.
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Howdy all! Figured I might pop in to drum up any support the Bills may have from the Browns' fanbase. We like our team where it is and hope everyone else does too. Small market teams like us are just as important to the league as big market teams imo.
As I'm sure some of you know, the Bills & Browns have unofficially supported each other for a long time, both being small market teams. From the shenanigans they pulled together to steal Bernie Kosar for the Browns from the Oilers in the 1985 draft(great story btw. Google it if you're not familiar) to Ralph Wilson being one of only two team owners in the league to vote against relocating the Browns in 1996 even though he was considered one of Art Modell's closest friends. He supported the fanbase of small markets teams over all else. When he failed to block the move, he did the only thing he could and declared the Bills/Bengals game next season "Cleveland Browns Fan Appreciate Day" at Ralph Wilson Stadium. He also chose halftime at a Bills/Browns game to receive his Hall of Fame ring.
Anyways, it's obvious what Bills fans think about moving the team. I'm curious what fans of another team think. Would you sign a petition to keep them in Buffalo or join a Facebook group to show your support?
Howdy all! Figured I might pop in to drum up any support the Bills may have from the Browns' fanbase. We like our team where it is and hope everyone else does too. Small market teams like us are just as important to the league as big market teams imo.
As I'm sure some of you know, the Bills & Browns have unofficially supported each other for a long time, both being small market teams. From the shenanigans they pulled together to steal Bernie Kosar for the Browns from the Oilers in the 1985 draft(great story btw. Google it if you're not familiar) to Ralph Wilson being one of only two team owners in the league to vote against relocating the Browns in 1996 even though he was considered one of Art Modell's closest friends. He supported the fanbase of small markets teams over all else. When he failed to block the move, he did the only thing he could and declared the Bills/Bengals game next season "Cleveland Browns Fan Appreciate Day" at Ralph Wilson Stadium. He also chose halftime at a Bills/Browns game to receive his Hall of Fame ring.
Anyways, it's obvious what Bills fans think about moving the team. I'm curious what fans of another team think. Would you sign a petition to keep them in Buffalo or join a Facebook group to show your support?
I'd never support a bills move. The bills belong in buffalo.
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The Bills should NOT be moved out of Buffalo.
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So, what is the deal with Bon Jovi.....is he outwardly stating that he will move the team? And to where? Toronto? LA? Asbury Park?
Why put 130 mill into a facility if one of the probable conditions of keeping the team there is a new stadium? Put that money into the new stadium.
So, what is the deal with Bon Jovi.....is he outwardly stating that he will move the team? And to where? Toronto? LA? Asbury Park?
Why put 130 mill into a facility if one of the probable conditions of keeping the team there is a new stadium? Put that money into the new stadium.
He wants to move the team to LA.
A lot of Bills fans agree with you about the money for renovations. Ralph put up most of it out of his own pocket before he died though, so it's kind of seen as a nice gift to hold us over until someone builds a new stadium.
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Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
“Football is a game played with arms, legs and shoulders but mostly from the neck up” -
I didn't know we were a small market team...
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