Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@douche-nozzle said:
You can't use those few exception as your reasoning unless you are also willing to look at the hundreds and hundreds of cases the go the other way.
As far as new versus old Browns management, I agree one does not influence the other, but even more logical is that the current FO has "ZERO experience, individually or collectively, at their current positions. To think they are going to hit the nail on the head in their first attempt has higher odds than getting a player of Brady's ability at 199.
That's five pretty fuckin good exceptions. Face it the pundits and experts don't always know.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Just so you know, I don't profess that the Steelers are great at everything and the Browns suck at everything. I just point out the facts because I actually believe that the average Browns fan has no idea how bad they have been in the modern era of football. It's simple, the Steelers are average to exceptional every year and the Browns are bad to horrible every year.
I give the Browns their props for their success in the early days of football but let's be honest, nobody but Clevelanders cares about that. I like the fact that the team I root for was the worst of the worst and made themselves into the best. I dislike someone who was the best and went to live at the bottom, and I really dislike people who live in the sewer and tell the guy on the cover of GQ that he stinks.....it's truly laughable.....which is a big part of why I enjoy this forum......it's entertainment.
P.S. The name change thing is on your fearless leader who is the biggest chicken shit of all. He can't stand hearing the truth so he edits, deletes, and modifies until he likes it. He changes user names because he is not man enough to partake in open debate. He is spineless.
Remember that ten year period in modern football called the eighties?
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meanwhile if you knew how to drive a z28 (know about that one littetons) you could blow away a 3.17 barracuda or any stock mustang on the road at the time.
just cuz the car is sleek and flashy doesn't mean it'll come in first place.
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Mike-I know you are right. Sumlin did the same thing by not allowing any freshmen or redshirt freshmen to speak to the media until after the season was over.
It's just a little frustrating watching him play possum for you until he is given free reign to show all that he brings to the table. Time will take care of it. I know the staff is trying to protect him from the usual QB ruination that can happen if he is thrown in too soon. It's just that they threw him in to the SEC and he came out king of the world and brought us the highest final rankings since the days of Bear Bryant and our last Heisman winner in the mid 50's. I'm just liking his coming to a place that thirsts for a winner just as much or more than we did.
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Mike-I know you are right. Sumlin did the same thing by not allowing any freshmen or redshirt freshmen to speak to the media until after the season was over.
It's just a little frustrating watching him play possum for you until he is given free reign to show all that he brings to the table. Time will take care of it. I know the staff is trying to protect him from the usual QB ruination that can happen if he is thrown in too soon. It's just that they threw him in to the SEC and he came out king of the world and brought us the highest final rankings since the days of Bear Bryant and our last Heisman winner in the mid 50's. I'm just liking his coming to a place that thirsts for a winner just as much or more than we did.
Mike-I know you are right. Sumlin did the same thing by not allowing any freshmen or redshirt freshmen to speak to the media until after the season was over.
It's just a little frustrating watching him play possum for you until he is given free reign to show all that he brings to the table. Time will take care of it. I know the staff is trying to protect him from the usual QB ruination that can happen if he is thrown in too soon. It's just that they threw him in to the SEC and he came out king of the world and brought us the highest final rankings since the days of Bear Bryant and our last Heisman winner in the mid 50's. I'm just liking his coming to a place that thirsts for a winner just as much or more than we did.
Love your last sentence. His passion, leadership, & excitement are contagious. Those qualities alone are invaluable whether or not he is on the field. If & when Coach Pettine & staff see fit to name Johnny the starter, he'll be ready & I believe he'll excel.
Drafting Johnny is the "shot in the arm" Cleveland needed.
Mike
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although arguing with a fan of an arch rival (to us still a rival although you stooler fans shrug it off nowadays) can be fun and interesting i feel that it is just a waste of time anymore.
we as browns fans are excited again, like the beginning of every new season under every new regime we've had after the draft with new players. will it pan out this year? maybe. maybe not. but the one thing that is definitely different between our 2 franchises (and has been for a couple of years now, no matter what the outcome has been) is the growing belief among others outside of cleveland that there is a solid foundation of talent there that is only a tweak here or there away from dominating the AFCN. i've said this for the last 5 years that we are on an upswing and if anything the steelers have done nothing to counter balance that.
i've always wondered why steeler fans come to this board just to get abused and get shit flung at them, most of the time not deserving it. and i've come to the realization that it must be that urge to peek inside the cupboard, to look under the hood of that neighbor's car that he's been working on for years now putting the last pieces of that classic hot rod together that has you somewhat intrigued and excited yourself, even though that means there is a new cool dude on the block that is going to steal your thunder.
hell, hop on board. it's not like we don't have a car load of new fans or anything.
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Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
To me the whole show seems like a smart way to get the most out of Johnny. If I'm an ultra competitive guy and you put me at the bottom of the depth chart and tell me I'm a backup that's going to motivate the hell out of me to prove that I'm no backup and I certainly don't belong at the bottom of the depth chart. Seems like a much better way to motivate him then telling him he's the man and the job is his oh and by the way thanks for all the jersey sales.
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Unfortunately, sick people seem to stalk people like JFF. Kid better watch his back.
Unfortunately, sick people seem to stalk people like JFF. Kid better watch his back.
But surely they're all here...
... and since JM is too (under his secret identity) he can keep an eye on them.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Unfortunately, sick people seem to stalk people like JFF. Kid better watch his back.
But surely they're all here...
... and since JM is too (under his secret identity) he can keep an eye on them.
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we have auto-correction now?
now that is cool.
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Do the Manziel
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Just bumped into a Jags fan at Wal-Mart. He said most Jags fans wanted Manziel over Bortles. I think the whole experience was the beginning of a joke. So a Jags fan and a Browns fan are standing in line at Wal-Mart.....
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Just bumped into a Jags fan at Wal-Mart. He said most Jags fans wanted Manziel over Bortles. I think the whole experience was the beginning of a joke. So a Jags fan and a Browns fan are standing in line at Wal-Mart.....
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@douche-nozzle said:
.until the Browns actually do it, it's just the same old Browns.
100% correct.
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You put stats in quotes like they're fake. They are real. Those are what stats are...numbers that categorically gauge how a player plays.
The rest of the shit you listed? Those are excuses. TCPO
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No, I put them in quotes because they are illegitimate indications of how good or bad a qb is.
Football is a team game. Stats are indications of how PLAYERS PLAY. Using them as the sole
gauge on one player is not ..necessarily valid.
You think Archie Manning was a crap qb? "look at the stats" ? Baloney. Even Jim Brown
gave huge, huge credit to his offensive line for his success. If he had a poor oline, and bad stats,
he would have been a rotten rb? Analysis needs to be more comprehensive than that, imho.
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@douche-nozzle said:
You should be excited! I don't agree that there is a growing belief that the Browns are a tweak or two away but that's why we are fans and not paid NFL professionals. The Steelers have their issues as well as the Browns, there are many of us who question whether the head coach has succeeded on his own or on Cowhers coat tails.
This is the kind of football discussion that could go on here if it weren't for the mods who aren't man enough to allow people to be proven wrong instead of editing and deleting posts so that the world can only see what they want to be seen.
While it is refreshing to see a Steeler fan actually admit he has some uncertainty around his team's future, most of their posts, including yours, are subjective hand-waving. And that is anything but a "discussion" inducing approach.
Then disagreement follows and the requisite name-calling ensues. From what I have seen that's when our Mods step in... as well they should. Tone, not content, is what requires their actions.
The reasons fans visit another team's forum vary. But all such visitors are guests and should behave as such even if their "welcome" is less hospitable than they might deserve. Once they react (or "take the bait") they set themselves upon a path leading downhill to a place from which they can never return.
Doesn't mean we still can't have a convo... just means the distance is going to introduce some noise.
I agree about the questions with Tomlin. While he has the requisite Steeler HC stoicism, just not sure he has the fire. But regardless, IMO, he is not the biggest coaching question you have in front of you. I think the biggest question is... what do you do when a 76 yo Dick LeBeau decides to retire?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
.until the Browns actually do it, it's just the same old Browns. dn
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Actually, this is not correct. The old Browns couldn't do it. Weren't able.
If these Browns do it, then they were able.
Huge difference. Things are really looking up from a lot higher vantage point now.
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@douche-nozzle said:
You should be excited! I don't agree that there is a growing belief that the Browns are a tweak or two away but that's why we are fans and not paid NFL professionals. The Steelers have their issues as well as the Browns, there are many of us who question whether the head coach has succeeded on his own or on Cowhers coat tails.
This is the kind of football discussion that could go on here if it weren't for the mods who aren't man enough to allow people to be proven wrong instead of editing and deleting posts so that the world can only see what they want to be seen.
While it is refreshing to see a Steeler fan actually admit he has some uncertainty around his team's future, most of their posts, including yours, are subjective hand-waving. And that is anything but a "discussion" inducing approach.
Then disagreement follows and the requisite name-calling ensues. From what I have seen that's when our Mods step in... as well they should. Tone, not content, is what requires their actions.
The reasons fans visit another team's forum vary. But all such visitors are guests and should behave as such even if their "welcome" is less hospitable than they might deserve. Once they react (or "take the bait") they set themselves upon a path leading downhill to a place from which they can never return.
Doesn't mean we still can't have a convo... just means the distance is going to introduce some noise.
I agree about the questions with Tomlin. While he has the requisite Steeler HC stoicism, just not sure he has the fire. But regardless, IMO, he is not the biggest coaching question you have in front of you. I think the biggest question is... what do you do when a 76 yo Dick LeBeau decides to retire?
While it is refreshing to see a Steeler fan actually admit he has some uncertainty around his team's future, most of their posts, including yours, are subjective hand-waving. And that is anything but a "discussion" inducing approach.
Then disagreement follows and the requisite name-calling ensues. From what I have seen that's when our Mods step in... as well they should. Tone, not content, is what requires their actions.
The reasons fans visit another team's forum vary. But all such visitors are guests and should behave as such even if their "welcome" is less hospitable than they might deserve. Once they react (or "take the bait") they set themselves upon a path leading downhill to a place from which they can never return.
Doesn't mean we still can't have a convo... just means the distance is going to introduce some noise.
I agree about the questions with Tomlin. While he has the requisite Steeler HC stoicism, just not sure he has the fire. But regardless, IMO, he is not the biggest coaching question you have in front of you. I think the biggest question is... what do you do when a 76 yo Dick LeBeau decides to retire?
Dont worry...according to Vagitron they have a star defensive coordinator in waiting,in Keith Butler who is one of theyre def position coaches.
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While it is refreshing to see a Steeler fan actually admit he has some uncertainty around his team's future, most of their posts, including yours, are subjective hand-waving. And that is anything but a "discussion" inducing approach.
Then disagreement follows and the requisite name-calling ensues. From what I have seen that's when our Mods step in... as well they should. Tone, not content, is what requires their actions.
The reasons fans visit another team's forum vary. But all such visitors are guests and should behave as such even if their "welcome" is less hospitable than they might deserve. Once they react (or "take the bait") they set themselves upon a path leading downhill to a place from which they can never return.
Doesn't mean we still can't have a convo... just means the distance is going to introduce some noise.
I agree about the questions with Tomlin. While he has the requisite Steeler HC stoicism, just not sure he has the fire. But regardless, IMO, he is not the biggest coaching question you have in front of you. I think the biggest question is... what do you do when a 76 yo Dick LeBeau decides to retire?
Dont worry...according to Vagitron they have a star defensive coordinator in waiting,in Keith Butler who is one of theyre def position coaches.
Dont worry...according to Vagitron they have a star defensive coordinator in waiting,in Keith Butler who is one of theyre def position coaches.
Yep, you should know him actually. He was the LB coach in Cleveland from 99-02.
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@douche-nozzle said:
The reason I come here is because it is often mind numbingly comical to read what Browns fans actually believe. It's kinda like going to the zoo to see the animals who pick nits from each other and eat them, or stick their finger up their butt and lick it.....it's just hard to believe what you are seeing/hearing.
As far as LeBeau is concerned, I don't know what they will do but the odds are it will work out because that's how they do things. You don't repeat things year after year, decade after decade, by luck.
lets see. are you denying that your team might be sliding? Would you consider some of Tomlins early success because he inherited a good squad?
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