Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@douche-nozzle said:
Over the last 15 years for sure, and debatably over the last 40, the Browns have earned higher draft picks, and done less with those draft picks, than any team with the possible exception of Detroit. This is proven by the fact that despite having the highest average draft picks, they are still at the bottom of the league. That really shouldn't be that hard to follow.
I love the emphasis some of you put on luck to explain why the Browns suck and the Steelers excel.
I don't disagree completely with you here. I'm also pointing out (both here and in your Myopia thread, which your name change had me confused for a moment) that you want to chest-thump that the Browns are at the bottom and the Steelers are the best and can do no wrong. Your extremes of homerism is where I'm calling BS. I don't know very little about the Steelers history and stats, but I don't recall QB drafts like Bubby Brister or Kordell Stewart being "great draft picks".
I was calling out luck about the 4 HOF's picked in the '74 draft. That was damn lucky, no one can contest that. As for the rest, TCPO makes a good point that I agree with.
The point of this discussion was that you think the Steelers are the best ever at everything...since the 1970 merger...and the Browns are the worst of everything in that same time frame. It's pure BS, because you don't want to include the entire history of pro football and the Browns have not been on the bottom for the last 40 years.
I don't disagree completely with you here. I'm also pointing out (both here and in your Myopia thread, which your name change had me confused for a moment) that you want to chest-thump that the Browns are at the bottom and the Steelers are the best and can do no wrong. Your extremes of homerism is where I'm calling BS. I don't know very little about the Steelers history and stats, but I don't recall QB drafts like Bubby Brister or Kordell Stewart being "great draft picks".
I was calling out luck about the 4 HOF's picked in the '74 draft. That was damn lucky, no one can contest that. As for the rest, TCPO makes a good point that I agree with.
The point of this discussion was that you think the Steelers are the best ever at everything...since the 1970 merger...and the Browns are the worst of everything in that same time frame. It's pure BS, because you don't want to include the entire history of pro football and the Browns have not been on the bottom for the last 40 years.
As I pointed out, it is really only since the "Lerner era" began that things have been so bad. From 1964 to 1994 the Browns still had like the 7th best overall record in the league during those years.
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This forum now reminds me of walking into a bar sober, and having to listen to the drunks argue nonsensically about what year Camaro is best.
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Isn't it kind of pathetic that a Steeler fan has nothing to be excited about on his own team and has to come here and try and bash our draft pick? Sounds like he's obsessed with the Browns.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Over the last 15 years for sure, and debatably over the last 40, the Browns have earned higher draft picks, and done less with those draft picks, than any team with the possible exception of Detroit. This is proven by the fact that despite having the highest average draft picks, they are still at the bottom of the league. That really shouldn't be that hard to follow.
I love the emphasis some of you put on luck to explain why the Browns suck and the Steelers excel.
The reasons the Steelers excel and the Browns haven't are the same for both teams. It starts at the ownership level. Competent owners hire competent staff that puts together a competent team. The Browns finally have the owner and staff and the team is almost there. If your a Steelers fan and you don't recognize the Browns are finally on the rise you're in for a rude awakening.
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I'll try to keep this short. But it does require some preamble before I get to the point.
Full disclosure I'm a Washington Redskins fan but also a fan of the NFL.
Huge football fan, both college and NFL.
I started watching A&M b/c of their offense with Jerrod Johnson then Ryan Tannehill then Manziel.
Draftnerd too.
I think you guys had a good draft one of my favorite prospects with ILB Christian Kirksey who imho has a skillset that rivals 1st round pick Ryan Shazier. And stole Terrence West local kid(Baltimore) out of Towson University.
As a Redskin's fan I have some knowledge of Kyle's offense.(if you're interested)
.I'm posting because I have a some questions that imho require a local perspective.
Being a Redskin's fan an enduring the circus that went on last year I know how the national media can get a story wrong.
So, I was hoping to find out the local perception of how your owner and front office are handling Manziel.
Cheers to a (hopefully) good season. -
Washington, D.C. metro area - worst in the USA. Shit city and region. Fuck the foreskins.
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Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
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Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
I think the "toning down" is more to back off the media. When he's ready, Johnny will be playing his game. I love the kid but he IS a rookie.
Mke
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@douche-nozzle said:
You can't use those few exception as your reasoning unless you are also willing to look at the hundreds and hundreds of cases the go the other way.
As far as new versus old Browns management, I agree one does not influence the other, but even more logical is that the current FO has "ZERO experience, individually or collectively, at their current positions. To think they are going to hit the nail on the head in their first attempt has higher odds than getting a player of Brady's ability at 199.
That's five pretty fuckin good exceptions. Face it the pundits and experts don't always know.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Just so you know, I don't profess that the Steelers are great at everything and the Browns suck at everything. I just point out the facts because I actually believe that the average Browns fan has no idea how bad they have been in the modern era of football. It's simple, the Steelers are average to exceptional every year and the Browns are bad to horrible every year.
I give the Browns their props for their success in the early days of football but let's be honest, nobody but Clevelanders cares about that. I like the fact that the team I root for was the worst of the worst and made themselves into the best. I dislike someone who was the best and went to live at the bottom, and I really dislike people who live in the sewer and tell the guy on the cover of GQ that he stinks.....it's truly laughable.....which is a big part of why I enjoy this forum......it's entertainment.
P.S. The name change thing is on your fearless leader who is the biggest chicken shit of all. He can't stand hearing the truth so he edits, deletes, and modifies until he likes it. He changes user names because he is not man enough to partake in open debate. He is spineless.
Remember that ten year period in modern football called the eighties?
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meanwhile if you knew how to drive a z28 (know about that one littetons) you could blow away a 3.17 barracuda or any stock mustang on the road at the time.
just cuz the car is sleek and flashy doesn't mean it'll come in first place.
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Mike-I know you are right. Sumlin did the same thing by not allowing any freshmen or redshirt freshmen to speak to the media until after the season was over.
It's just a little frustrating watching him play possum for you until he is given free reign to show all that he brings to the table. Time will take care of it. I know the staff is trying to protect him from the usual QB ruination that can happen if he is thrown in too soon. It's just that they threw him in to the SEC and he came out king of the world and brought us the highest final rankings since the days of Bear Bryant and our last Heisman winner in the mid 50's. I'm just liking his coming to a place that thirsts for a winner just as much or more than we did.
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Mike-I know you are right. Sumlin did the same thing by not allowing any freshmen or redshirt freshmen to speak to the media until after the season was over.
It's just a little frustrating watching him play possum for you until he is given free reign to show all that he brings to the table. Time will take care of it. I know the staff is trying to protect him from the usual QB ruination that can happen if he is thrown in too soon. It's just that they threw him in to the SEC and he came out king of the world and brought us the highest final rankings since the days of Bear Bryant and our last Heisman winner in the mid 50's. I'm just liking his coming to a place that thirsts for a winner just as much or more than we did.
Mike-I know you are right. Sumlin did the same thing by not allowing any freshmen or redshirt freshmen to speak to the media until after the season was over.
It's just a little frustrating watching him play possum for you until he is given free reign to show all that he brings to the table. Time will take care of it. I know the staff is trying to protect him from the usual QB ruination that can happen if he is thrown in too soon. It's just that they threw him in to the SEC and he came out king of the world and brought us the highest final rankings since the days of Bear Bryant and our last Heisman winner in the mid 50's. I'm just liking his coming to a place that thirsts for a winner just as much or more than we did.
Love your last sentence. His passion, leadership, & excitement are contagious. Those qualities alone are invaluable whether or not he is on the field. If & when Coach Pettine & staff see fit to name Johnny the starter, he'll be ready & I believe he'll excel.
Drafting Johnny is the "shot in the arm" Cleveland needed.
Mike
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although arguing with a fan of an arch rival (to us still a rival although you stooler fans shrug it off nowadays) can be fun and interesting i feel that it is just a waste of time anymore.
we as browns fans are excited again, like the beginning of every new season under every new regime we've had after the draft with new players. will it pan out this year? maybe. maybe not. but the one thing that is definitely different between our 2 franchises (and has been for a couple of years now, no matter what the outcome has been) is the growing belief among others outside of cleveland that there is a solid foundation of talent there that is only a tweak here or there away from dominating the AFCN. i've said this for the last 5 years that we are on an upswing and if anything the steelers have done nothing to counter balance that.
i've always wondered why steeler fans come to this board just to get abused and get shit flung at them, most of the time not deserving it. and i've come to the realization that it must be that urge to peek inside the cupboard, to look under the hood of that neighbor's car that he's been working on for years now putting the last pieces of that classic hot rod together that has you somewhat intrigued and excited yourself, even though that means there is a new cool dude on the block that is going to steal your thunder.
hell, hop on board. it's not like we don't have a car load of new fans or anything.
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Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
Very nice read. Nick Saban told Johnny in front of the ESPN cameras that he was one of the greatest competitors he has ever seen in his 40 years of coaching football. Once they take the bit out of his mouth and tell him he can just compete and not have to "act like a backup", they will see a completely different person. Right now he's toning it down under orders and saying what they want him to say. You'd think they'd bought a nag from a dog food factory instead of what he is.
To me the whole show seems like a smart way to get the most out of Johnny. If I'm an ultra competitive guy and you put me at the bottom of the depth chart and tell me I'm a backup that's going to motivate the hell out of me to prove that I'm no backup and I certainly don't belong at the bottom of the depth chart. Seems like a much better way to motivate him then telling him he's the man and the job is his oh and by the way thanks for all the jersey sales.
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Unfortunately, sick people seem to stalk people like JFF. Kid better watch his back.
Unfortunately, sick people seem to stalk people like JFF. Kid better watch his back.
But surely they're all here...
... and since JM is too (under his secret identity) he can keep an eye on them.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Unfortunately, sick people seem to stalk people like JFF. Kid better watch his back.
But surely they're all here...
... and since JM is too (under his secret identity) he can keep an eye on them.
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we have auto-correction now?
now that is cool.
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Do the Manziel
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