OTA Early Report (Which Means Nothing)
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hoota-"Johnny has made a favorable impression on me saying and doing all the right things- it's been all of two weeks though."
Don't be fooled. That isn't him yet. The one we know takes a big shot, jumps up in the hitter's face and tells him it damn sure ain't over yet. Then he gets that TD and writes an autograph for the hitter in the air and gets flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. He's brash and unafraid. That will help this team more than anything else in the long run.
Don't be fooled. That isn't him yet. The one we know takes a big shot, jumps up in the hitter's face and tells him it damn sure ain't over yet. Then he gets that TD and writes an autograph for the hitter in the air and gets flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. He's brash and unafraid. That will help this team more than anything else in the long run.
"Brash and unafraid" (or thoughtless and immature)... In one post you've capsulized our (or at least my) two worst JM fears: big shot(s) and thoughtless actions that hurt the team.
1. NFL shots a bigger than college shots. Yes, even bigger than SEC shots.
2. When he gets flagged he'll get an earful from Pettine, just as he did from Sumlin, except potentially with a seat as part of the deal. That kind of antic is what Johnny pulls in the heat of a close game. Just the circumstance where self-control is demanded. Just the circumstance where that Unsportsmanlike Conduct flag will hurt the most. So when we kick off from our 20 and the opponent kicks a 55 yard FG two plays later as time expires for the win, while you Johnny-boys revel in his game tying TD, we Browns fans will curse him for costing us the game...
And then this board will get really interesting...
@everlastingxxx said:
Of course i wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Manziel. I don’t know why that matters and why i need to apologize for that.
I am on game 14 i think, the Patriot game...
... i came here thinking you guys were excited about the teams direction and instead there is an overall negative vibe.
Good post.. truly... well reasoned for the most part... and kudos for watching the 2013 games.
As you say you've no need to apologize for any of your views, but you have gone beyond defending them in some posts and at times your JM "fanaticism" has kept you from recognizing what others are saying. Case in point is your "an overall negative vibe" comment. IMO that simply is not the case... As a group we are as optimistic as I have seen for the direction of the team. Where we fail you is by a lack of universal enthusiasm for JM now and forever, and the percentage of us who reject your insistences that he is "the one". I think you conflate the two.
3-0 Worked for me without a sniff of a running game.
I like Hoyer as well, but we have to give up the 3-0 thing. Brian was hurt very early in the Buffalo game, so 2-0 is more representative of his record as a Browns starter.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The way Hoyer sparked life into the offense tells the truth about
him being the valid option to start the season.
Manziel has a lot to learn, and a lot to observe before he takes
the reins.
The Browns would have been better off not starting Tim Couch
with an expansion team. It was a disaster, a veteran would have
had a lot of experience in his arsenal to help him try to make
the offense work.
It just isn't necessary to start Manziel too soon. Enough already.
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The way Hoyer sparked life into the offense tells the truth about
him being the valid option to start the season.
Manziel has a lot to learn, and a lot to observe before he takes
the reins.
The Browns would have been better off not starting Tim Couch
with an expansion team. It was a disaster, a veteran would have
had a lot of experience in his arsenal to help him try to make
the offense work.
It just isn't necessary to start Manziel too soon. Enough already.
You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.The way Hoyer sparked life into the offense tells the truth about
him being the valid option to start the season.
Manziel has a lot to learn, and a lot to observe before he takes
the reins.
The Browns would have been better off not starting Tim Couch
with an expansion team. It was a disaster, a veteran would have
had a lot of experience in his arsenal to help him try to make
the offense work.
It just isn't necessary to start Manziel too soon. Enough already.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.The way Hoyer sparked life into the offense tells the truth about
him being the valid option to start the season.
Manziel has a lot to learn, and a lot to observe before he takes
the reins.
The Browns would have been better off not starting Tim Couch
with an expansion team. It was a disaster, a veteran would have
had a lot of experience in his arsenal to help him try to make
the offense work.
It just isn't necessary to start Manziel too soon. Enough already.
You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.
so i guess you are leading the anti-hoyer campaign?
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You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.
so i guess you are leading the anti-hoyer campaign?
No, I'm leading the "There's no such thing as a guaranteed win" campaign.so i guess you are leading the anti-hoyer campaign?
The reasoning behind "it's better to sit Manziel and let Hoyer take the reigns " is often flawed.
Truth is, we don't know what's better. Just because it's logical that a rookie should sit doesn't make it applicable.
Even if Manziel gives us a 1% better chance of winning, he should start. Same goes for every player, at every position, no matter their level of experience.
The common misconception is that "we can just start Hoyer and then plug in Manziel when he's comfortable" like Hoyer will just magically shell out wins and be the franchise QB he has shown zero signs of being. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
It all comes down to scheme fit, athletic ability and what you contribute to the teams success. If we want to start players based solely off experience and nothing else, younger players would never see the field until older players retired.
And if we wanted to start players based solely on experience, Skrine would start over Gilbert, Pinkston would start over Bitonio, Bennett would start over Miles Austin, and Thigpen over Manziel.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.The way Hoyer sparked life into the offense tells the truth about
him being the valid option to start the season.
Manziel has a lot to learn, and a lot to observe before he takes
the reins.
The Browns would have been better off not starting Tim Couch
with an expansion team. It was a disaster, a veteran would have
had a lot of experience in his arsenal to help him try to make
the offense work.
It just isn't necessary to start Manziel too soon. Enough already.
You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.
Sigh...
Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.
It could be that simple...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.
Sigh...
Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.
It could be that simple...
Sigh...
Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.
It could be that simple...
It could be. But, outside of you, I've yet to hear anyone specifically say why they think this way or what drives them to that feeling.
It's frustrating when people have opinions that they can't back up with anything other than "WINS, DUDE".
Rational football talk makes everyone better, in my opinion.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
No, I'm leading the "There's no such thing as a guaranteed win" campaign.so i guess you are leading the anti-hoyer campaign?
The reasoning behind "it's better to sit Manziel and let Hoyer take the reigns " is often flawed.
Truth is, we don't know what's better. Just because it's logical that a rookie should sit doesn't make it applicable.
Even if Manziel gives us a 1% better chance of winning, he should start. Same goes for every player, at every position, no matter their level of experience.
The common misconception is that "we can just start Hoyer and then plug in Manziel when he's comfortable" like Hoyer will just magically shell out wins and be the franchise QB he has shown zero signs of being. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
It all comes down to scheme fit, athletic ability and what you contribute to the teams success. If we want to start players based solely off experience and nothing else, younger players would never see the field until older players retired.
And if we wanted to start players based solely on experience, Skrine would start over Gilbert, Pinkston would start over Bitonio, Bennett would start over Miles Austin, and Thigpen over Manziel.
No, I'm leading the "There's no such thing as a guaranteed win" campaign.
The reasoning behind "it's better to sit Manziel and let Hoyer take the reigns " is often flawed.
Truth is, we don't know what's better. Just because it's logical that a rookie should sit doesn't make it applicable.
Even if Manziel gives us a 1% better chance of winning, he should start. Same goes for every player, at every position, no matter their level of experience.
The common misconception is that "we can just start Hoyer and then plug in Manziel when he's comfortable" like Hoyer will just magically shell out wins and be the franchise QB he has shown zero signs of being. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
It all comes down to scheme fit, athletic ability and what you contribute to the teams success. If we want to start players based solely off experience and nothing else, younger players would never see the field until older players retired.
And if we wanted to start players based solely on experience, Skrine would start over Gilbert, Pinkston would start over Bitonio, Bennett would start over Miles Austin, and Thigpen over Manziel.
well cal might be the only person who feels that way...........right now. sure it might be prudent to sit manziel for HIS own good
BUT
give it a couple of weeks into training camp and let the presses/media roll with whoever is the darling at each position and i'm sure some minds will get changed not only with us fans but with the coaches as well.
nothing is set in stone.
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Sigh...
Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.
It could be that simple...
It could be. But, outside of you, I've yet to hear anyone specifically say why they think this way or what drives them to that feeling.
It's frustrating when people have opinions that they can't back up with anything other than "WINS, DUDE".
Rational football talk makes everyone better, in my opinion.
It could be. But, outside of you, I've yet to hear anyone specifically say why they think this way or what drives them to that feeling.
It's frustrating when people have opinions that they can't back up with anything other than "WINS, DUDE".
Rational football talk makes everyone better, in my opinion.
I dont care who starts, but whoever gives us the best chance to win should be the starter. If its Hoyer I am fine with that, same with Manziel. However, Manziel has to prove he is ready, which I am betting comes are some point whether its week 1 this yr or maybe as later as next yr. Would be great for once to have more than one capable QB on the roster.
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It could be. But, outside of you, I've yet to hear anyone specifically say why they think this way or what drives them to that feeling.
It's frustrating when people have opinions that they can't back up with anything other than "WINS, DUDE".
Rational football talk makes everyone better, in my opinion.
I dont care who starts, but whoever gives us the best chance to win should be the starter. If its Hoyer I am fine with that, same with Manziel. However, Manziel has to prove he is ready, which I am betting comes are some point whether its week 1 this yr or maybe as later as next yr. Would be great for once to have more than one capable QB on the roster.
I dont care who starts, but whoever gives us the best chance to win should be the starter. If its Hoyer I am fine with that, same with Manziel. However, Manziel has to prove he is ready, which I am betting comes are some point whether its week 1 this yr or maybe as later as next yr. Would be great for once to have more than one capable QB on the roster.
Very well said. I am starting to think we just may have 3 QBs who are ALL better than the best we had available to end the season last year. Quite a turn around.
Mike
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You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.
Sigh...
Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.
It could be that simple...
Fancy that. Some of us would like to give the last guy to actually win two games in a row the benefit of the doubt. No one said he was doing it all by himself, either. What he did do was elevate the level of play of the whole team. I was in the stadium that Thursday night against Buffalo. The mood was electric going into that game. It wasn't just me that felt that way. When he went down you could literally feel the collective deflation.Sigh...Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.It could be that simple...
. Why is it so difficult to understand? WINS. Isn't that what we are all looking for? Forgive me for thinking that was the whole fuckin point.It's frustrating when people have opinions that they can't back up with anything other than "WINS, DUDE".
Rational football talk makes everyone better, in my opinion.
-
Fancy that. Some of us would like to give the last guy to actually win two games in a row the benefit of the doubt. No one said he was doing it all by himself, either. What he did do was elevate the level of play of the whole team. I was in the stadium that Thursday night against Buffalo. The mood was electric going into that game. It wasn't just me that felt that way. When he went down you could literally feel the collective deflation.Sigh...Maybe right now cal, and all us "Hoyer-lovin'-Manziel-hating-schlubs", just think Hoyer gives us the best chance to win.It could be that simple...
. Why is it so difficult to understand? WINS. Isn't that what we are all looking for? Forgive me for thinking that was the whole fuckin point.It's frustrating when people have opinions that they can't back up with anything other than "WINS, DUDE".
Rational football talk makes everyone better, in my opinion.
Fancy that. Some of us would like to give the last guy to actually win two games in a row the benefit of the doubt. No one said he was doing it all by himself, either. What he did do was elevate the level of play of the whole team. I was in the stadium that Thursday night against Buffalo. The mood was electric going into that game. It wasn't just me that felt that way. When he went down you could literally feel the collective deflation.. Why is it so difficult to understand? WINS. Isn't that what we are all looking for? Forgive me for thinking that was the whole fuckin point.
Oh man, it's that easy? Well fuck, I wish I knew that.
The Browns will win every game next year. Boom. Done. That was fucking easy.
Dumbass.
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Don't be fooled. That isn't him yet. The one we know takes a big shot, jumps up in the hitter's face and tells him it damn sure ain't over yet. Then he gets that TD and writes an autograph for the hitter in the air and gets flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. He's brash and unafraid. That will help this team more than anything else in the long run.
"Brash and unafraid" (or thoughtless and immature)... In one post you've capsulized our (or at least my) two worst JM fears: big shot(s) and thoughtless actions that hurt the team.
1. NFL shots a bigger than college shots. Yes, even bigger than SEC shots.
2. When he gets flagged he'll get an earful from Pettine, just as he did from Sumlin, except potentially with a seat as part of the deal. That kind of antic is what Johnny pulls in the heat of a close game. Just the circumstance where self-control is demanded. Just the circumstance where that Unsportsmanlike Conduct flag will hurt the most. So when we kick off from our 20 and the opponent kicks a 55 yard FG two plays later as time expires for the win, while you Johnny-boys revel in his game tying TD, we Browns fans will curse him for costing us the game...
And then this board will get really interesting...
@everlastingxxx said:
Of course i wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Manziel. I don’t know why that matters and why i need to apologize for that.
I am on game 14 i think, the Patriot game...
... i came here thinking you guys were excited about the teams direction and instead there is an overall negative vibe.
Good post.. truly... well reasoned for the most part... and kudos for watching the 2013 games.
As you say you've no need to apologize for any of your views, but you have gone beyond defending them in some posts and at times your JM "fanaticism" has kept you from recognizing what others are saying. Case in point is your "an overall negative vibe" comment. IMO that simply is not the case... As a group we are as optimistic as I have seen for the direction of the team. Where we fail you is by a lack of universal enthusiasm for JM now and forever, and the percentage of us who reject your insistences that he is "the one". I think you conflate the two.
3-0 Worked for me without a sniff of a running game.
I like Hoyer as well, but we have to give up the 3-0 thing. Brian was hurt very early in the Buffalo game, so 2-0 is more representative of his record as a Browns starter.
"Brash and unafraid" (or thoughtless and immature)... In one post you've capsulized our (or at least my) two worst JM fears: big shot(s) and thoughtless actions that hurt the team.
1. NFL shots a bigger than college shots. Yes, even bigger than SEC shots.
2. When he gets flagged he'll get an earful from Pettine, just as he did from Sumlin, except potentially with a seat as part of the deal. That kind of antic is what Johnny pulls in the heat of a close game. Just the circumstance where self-control is demanded. Just the circumstance where that Unsportsmanlike Conduct flag will hurt the most. So when we kick off from our 20 and the opponent kicks a 55 yard FG two plays later as time expires for the win, while you Johnny-boys revel in his game tying TD, we Browns fans will curse him for costing us the game...
And then this board will get really interesting...
Good post.. truly... well reasoned for the most part... and kudos for watching the 2013 games.
As you say you've no need to apologize for any of your views, but you have gone beyond defending them in some posts and at times your JM "fanaticism" has kept you from recognizing what others are saying. Case in point is your "an overall negative vibe" comment. IMO that simply is not the case... As a group we are as optimistic as I have seen for the direction of the team. Where we fail you is by a lack of universal enthusiasm for JM now and forever, and the percentage of us who reject your insistences that he is "the one". I think you conflate the two.
I like Hoyer as well, but we have to give up the 3-0 thing. Brian was hurt very early in the Buffalo game, so 2-0 is more representative of his record as a Browns starter.
Ah he is "THE ONE" start calling him Neo instead.
But regarding the hits- a little personal aside. Went to HS with a guy you've probably never heard of Larry Zelina- wound up being the starting tailback behind Brockington @ Ohio State- LOL I got to see what 4.4 speed looks like up close and personal playing against him in a basketball game. Anyway, Larry got a tryout with the Browns- and promptly got his knee destroyed in training camp. His comment afterwards? I got hit hard a few times in college (and one of his teammates was "The Assassin" Jack Tatum) but when I got to the Browns every hit was a hard hit.You act like starting Hoyer results in guaranteed wins.
Hey, WW says 16-0 with JF, and the Super Bowl. Nope TC the Nattering Nabob of Negativity in me says is doesn't matter who we start- we're looking at 0-3 out of the gate. Start Manziel, and he doesn't make it to the bye in one piece.
LeBeau 15-2 against rookie starters, care to bet the ranch on JF in the opener?
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I would love to read Lumbergh's thoughts on this topic.
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@walterwhite said:
Hoorta is the fun police
It literally kills me how much he can't stand Manziel but polices every thread, and a has a rebuttal for every positive Manziel post. I'm not sure if he's a real beer drinking Browns fan who loves football and excitement or just a jealous 17 year old girlfriend. Either way, who gives a shit. Manziel is the king of Cleveland and it makes him insecure. Let's rage and kick Big Ben's ass week 1
We ARE Johnny Football.
Embrace it.
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nah, it's just spring - *some* fans' cabin fever prompts them
to frolic amidst the wild flowers in rage....
But Mr. Hoorta is not bitter. Never rageous. Not even outrageous.
Most all of us, mehbe even you and walter, are surely far different in real life
than online, like Brad Paisley's song.
Manziel has the "it" we've been missing ...but shoving him into prime time before
he knows the playbook doesn't sound smart, that's all.
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nah, it's just spring - *some* fans' cabin fever prompts them
to frolic amidst the wild flowers in rage....
But Mr. Hoorta is not bitter. Never rageous. Not even outrageous.
Most all of us, mehbe even you and walter, are surely far different in real life
than online, like Brad Paisley's song.
Manziel has the "it" we've been missing ...but shoving him into prime time before
he knows the playbook doesn't sound smart, that's all.
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@mike-h said:
The Browns Board: The home of the bitter old men with no football knowledge or insight.
...and one drama queen with a Jesus complex...
@walterwhite said:
Way to inspire confidence you alleged "Browns fan"
So you are simply here to inspire us?
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Yes....that's his job. He really deserves no praise for doing his job.The blitz is when Johnny shines.
But I agree he needs time and has to make lots of improvements.
One thing not being reported is him staying until after midnight studying what they are asking him to study. And being there bright and early for workouts.
Yes....that's his job. He really deserves no praise for doing his job.
After watching the last two year of Weeden...it's obvious that he never did his job. Can't name one game he actually went out there and looked prepared. Since we haven't seen Johnny actually play it's unfair to say that he's not capable. He's doing and saying the right things so far so leave him to his devices. I'd be good with him not playing at all this year but if he earns it; let him do his thing. Might be the 49er's scenario from a couple of years ago...Hoyer may get us going and then he gets injured and Johnny comes in a gets us to the Super Bowl...you never know. Teddy also has AP..so I can see why Zimmer is a little more comfortable with putting him in with the 1's. Johnny has some adjusting to do and it's jacked up to call him trash when he hasn't done anything to deserve that from us fans.
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With the extra attention to the wide receiver position l wondered if there were any stories or information available on how they did in the OTAs, but l haven't seen much. Looking here and elsewhere l saw the new guy from Dallas didn't participate, Armstrong dropped a ball, and Gordon caught everything thrown his way, which may or may not be ironic.
Has there been any reports on how they did? Maybe a feel good story about one of the undrafted guys or something?
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