Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
do you genuinely believe Manziel can take the Browns to the Superball?
point out some reasons you believe it will translate.
cuz if it can, an 8-8 team is simply a bad call or a squeaker overtime win away from a 9-7 record...happens all the time. (7-9 squeaking go 8-8 happens too **waves at the puke**
and a player with Manziel intangibles...he's basically the prototypical QB that could improvise a 9-7 record into a passionate SB quest.
The chances of the Browns making the Super Bowl in the next 6 years are greater with Johnny Manziel than with Brian Hoyer.
That I believe, and I don't believe it's really close.
I have yet to see what anyone else sees in Hoyer. Rewatch that Minnesota game, tell me that's a NFL starting QB. There is a reason why Arizona cut the guy. There's a reason why Hoyer was 3rd on the depth chart out of camp last year, BEHIND CAMPBELL and not even close to Weeden. Who was awful.
There's a reason the Browns drafted a QB in the first round this year. Hoyer isn't the guy. Great guy. Good enough to be in the league. Good mentor. Not a viable NFL starting QB. He is a backup, who is now just a placeholder until Manziel is ready.
So yes, if you told me that a QB on the roster this year would lead the Browns the Super Bowl in the future, I'd bet all my money that its Johnny Manziel.
I have yet to see comprehend what anyone else sees in Hoyer. Rewatch that Minnesota game, tell me that's a NFL starting QB. There is a reason why Arizona cut the guy. There's a reason why Hoyer was 3rd on the depth chart out of camp last year, BEHIND CAMPBELL and not even close to Weeden. Who was awful.
There's a reason the Browns drafted a QB in the first round this year. Hoyer isn't might not be the guy.
Fixed a couple thoughts... you're welcome.
Rewatch the Bengals' game and tell me you do not see the prospect of a starting QB.
Hoyer leap-frogged Campbell to start Game 3 vs. MN. As Dallas is about to find out, Wheezy is the NFL version of a driving range pro.
JF has shown the ability to turn nothing into something after a play breaks down.....evidently not one of Hoys top assets.
Two things...
1. Camp reports are saying that JM's errors are occurring when plays break down.
2. Hoyer extended plays in 2013, but did so differently than Scramziel (trademark pending). BH primarily moved in the pocket.
In that situation, you're actually supposed to switch every single time.
LOL... funny stuff. Love her standing up to the mathematicians... who of course were right.
-
According to the NFL Network, Manziel has been the first one to practice every day and the last to leave every day.
I wish Hoyer would show that kind of professionalism. -
the NFL is not some sloppy backyard draw it up in the dirt and go wing it out there type of sport. its a precise game, played by men who are professionals both on the field, and off.
1. Look up Russell Wilson's highlights. Made something out of nothing which got them into the big game. Look how many big plays he made that are "backyard" football and Big Ben has done the same.
2. Aaron Hernandez, Mike Vick, Big Ben, Ray Lewis, Lawrence Taylor, Donte Stallworth, Josh Gordon, Jim Brown, and many others all say what up
WilterWhate said:
1. Look up Russell Wilson's highlights. Made something out of nothing which got them into the big game. Look how many big plays he made that are "backyard" football and Big Ben has done the same.
2. Aaron Hernandez, Mike Vick, Big Ben, Ray Lewis, Lawrence Taylor, Donte Stallworth, Josh Gordon, Jim Brown, and many others all say what up
i think you know what i meant and were just acting coy but just in case you weren't...
scrambling to extend plays is not winging it backyard style. having plays break down so players can freelance is never the main M.O., they are plan B and it's a huge risk every time.
huge fuckers like Big Rape and Newton and shifty fellas like Wilson, RGIII, and Vick have elite skill sets that allow them to effectively use tools like stiff arms, spin moves, duck unders, jukes, fakes, pumps, and all sorts of other techniques and shiftiness to extend plays or pick up yards with their feet when plays break down...but there was a play called originally. it broke down and they are trying to make something happen, and they aren't alone out there, the entire team is involved. and not just lineman holding blocks endlessly but from everyone including receivers and backs, often multiple blocks as well. whatever the pandemonium calls for.
everyone with their heads on a swivel along with receivers and backs also trying to get open. it's not just some elusive QB juking fools out there solo they actually all have responsibilities and assignments and for real practice that shit. of course you can't script exactly how each play is going to break down but there are certain things they have discussed to try to get everyone on the same page. insight into what the QB is thinking and how to help them.
but it's not like the QB decides he's just gonna turn off his helmet microphone, flip the OC and HC the bird and start drawing up plays himself out of the frickin huddle. audibles, okay, but they aren't just goin "head out 20 yards and i'll find ya by the visitors water table."
this "point w ur forehead and gimme a wink" stuff Weeden did at oklahoma state >> that's as close as ur gonna get to winging it and it absolutely would not work in the NFL. defenses are just too sophisticated to have legitimate success that way.
including QB keepers there is an actual play called and being run and all 11 men out there know their assignments...even if the QB is scrambling and improvising the rest of the team has an idea what they should be doing. "improvising" aka "scrambling" to extend plays in this case is not what i consider the same as "winging it backyard style".
-
According to the NFL Network, Manziel has been the first one to practice every day and the last to leave every day.
I wish Hoyer would show that kind of professionalism.HoyerHater said:
According to the NFL Network, Manziel has been the first one to practice every day and the last to leave every day.
I wish Hoyer would show that kind of professionalism.
what'd they do set up a deer camera in the parking lot?
and good for him he should. being excited about that is like thanking the waitress for putting my order in to the kitchen.
try again.
-
bye.
for someone who is supposed to be a browns fan (really? c'mon man) i don't see you posting anywhere else on this forum except the manziel thread.
why is that?
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
I was in the Pound for the last game in 95, 14 years old, tearing up seats and trying to help pass them down. Still wear my "MUCK FODELL" shirt all the time.
Don't talk to me about being a Browns fan. I have the Browns in my blood. That's why I question the fan level of some of you who mock our future starting QB. What a disgrace. You know how hard it is for the Browns to have this kind of chance with this kind of talent? I mean you think Hoyer is going to lead us to the Super Bowl?! Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.But I guess thats where some of you died a long time ago, just hoping for a non-losing season.
Me? I feel pretty confident the Browns will get it right eventually, just like every other franchise does. I'm looking for when that happens, and it feels a bit like it's happening soon. That's exciting to me, but I know that for us to move to the to level of the NFL it's going to take Manziel being Manziel. That's why he was picked in the 1st round. The upside is so high.
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
I was in the Pound for the last game in 95, 14 years old, tearing up seats and trying to help pass them down. Still wear my "MUCK FODELL" shirt all the time.
Don't talk to me about being a Browns fan. I have the Browns in my blood. That's why I question the fan level of some of you who mock our future starting QB. What a disgrace. You know how hard it is for the Browns to have this kind of chance with this kind of talent? I mean you think Hoyer is going to lead us to the Super Bowl?! Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.But I guess thats where some of you died a long time ago, just hoping for a non-losing season.
Me? I feel pretty confident the Browns will get it right eventually, just like every other franchise does. I'm looking for when that happens, and it feels a bit like it's happening soon. That's exciting to me, but I know that for us to move to the to level of the NFL it's going to take Manziel being Manziel. That's why he was picked in the 1st round. The upside is so high.
RE: the red, there is no way in hell you or anyone else can say that with 100% confidence. If you're right kudos to you. If you're wrong you're going to look like a doofus.
Yeah, there's some guys on NFLN saying Hoyer is nothing more than a career backup, if it makes you feel any better. We find out after the third preseason game who's going to be starting against the Steelers- and Pettine's opinion is the only one that counts. Geeze, you really need to take a chill pill, you think the guys who like Hoyer are going to jump off the I 480 bridge if Manziel beats him out?
-
bye.
for someone who is supposed to be a browns fan (really? c'mon man) i don't see you posting anywhere else on this forum except the manziel thread.
why is that?
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
I was in the Pound for the last game in 95, 14 years old, tearing up seats and trying to help pass them down. Still wear my "MUCK FODELL" shirt all the time.
Don't talk to me about being a Browns fan. I have the Browns in my blood. That's why I question the fan level of some of you who mock our future starting QB. What a disgrace. You know how hard it is for the Browns to have this kind of chance with this kind of talent? I mean you think Hoyer is going to lead us to the Super Bowl?! Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.But I guess thats where some of you died a long time ago, just hoping for a non-losing season.
Me? I feel pretty confident the Browns will get it right eventually, just like every other franchise does. I'm looking for when that happens, and it feels a bit like it's happening soon. That's exciting to me, but I know that for us to move to the to level of the NFL it's going to take Manziel being Manziel. That's why he was picked in the 1st round. The upside is so high.
HoyerHater said:
in 95, 14 years old
there's absolutely no way you were born in 1981. you should feel embarrassed for even suggesting it.
i'd put u on ignore now but i refuse to allow u to have "the-fastest-ever-put-on-ignore" title.
but it's just a matter of time...
-
Gee I don't know where I get the idea that there is hate.
Not saying there isn't. Just saying the card has been played before. That generally it's of the universal variety which includes the merely skeptical... and the convo is over.
Another interesting take. The concluding sentence, is close to what I have said for a long time. The longer Hoyer starts, the more success we are having.
"If it happens sooner, it happens sooner. But if it doesn’t, and if there is any sort of debate over when he does start because Hoyer is performing well, that is a GREAT problem for the Browns,"
i lol'd at "fresher troll material". actually i just did again. funny.
re: JM's ball release...it was adequate for college ball but they are screwing w it like they did B Quinn's with hopes they can tweak it to perfection...i just hope they don't make him start thinkin so much he starts forgetting how to play football...cuz thats how it looks to me--is like hes thinking and processing it all a lot slower than BH.
i can't help but wonder if Jon Gruden opened pandoras box with those laceless balls.
Thanks I'll be here all season...
I thought Gruden's laceless deal was around one play, the quick WR screen. I was unaware our staff was changing JM's mechanics.
JM played thru college throwing without his pinky on the laces. Then he worked with George Whitfield prior to his pro day and Whitfield got him putting his pinky on the laces. JM himself commented on how much tighter his spiral got. But like many tweaks to my golf swing over the years, the change has not stuck.
The biggest part of the equation is talent.
I believe that every elite QB in the league would laugh in your face.
Left the insistence on continuing the college performance to TC...
I thought Gruden's laceless deal was around one play, the quick WR screen. I was unaware our staff was changing JM's mechanics.
JM played thru college throwing without his pinky on the laces. Then he worked with George Whitfield prior to his pro day and Whitfield got him putting his pinky on the laces. JM himself commented on how much tighter his spiral got. But like many tweaks to my golf swing over the years, the change has not stuck.
yeah i've been following along re: ur interest in JM's throwing and the pinky. Gruden definitely talked about laceless for his 3-step drop but it looks like JM is attempting to throw without them whenever he can. i have no link handy but Jaworski commented on the changes to JM's mechanics...i assumed the adjustments were made after being drafted and at the rookie camp in Berea...but i honestly don't know when or what extent. just food for thought.
after watching everything current i can see my input is still pretty vague.
struggling is too strong of a word. but as "automatic" as hoyer looks, JM looks to be...thinking. his processing is more reluctant, less decisive.
that said, he seems on pace. possibly even ahead of schedule. becoming proficient in kyle shanahan's system is a really tall order, and he has the whole book to tackle.
-
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job.
And therein lies your disorder... that is unless your real name is Billy Pilgrim.
According to the NFL Network, Manziel has been the first one to practice every day and the last to leave every day.
If he'd actually worked at his craft between OTAs and TC, then he might be getting more of the rest he needs to compete.
1st Alternate Reply: What's her name?
2nd Alternate Reply: What's his name?
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.
1. What do you think we are doing?
2. What is your learned W/L projection with 16 JM starts?
-
Johnny Football poster, good one, you've very clever.
This isn't even about Manziel. I'm excited because of his upside, but I've said over and over he is Boom or Bust. I'm fully aware.What this is about is Hoyer and people thinking that somehow he is either going to 1) Keep the starting job forever and/or 2) Turn into Kurt Warner.
Both of those scenarios are insane.
History will not look kindly on people who keep posting about Hoyers potential greatness.HoyerHatah said:
What about my Johnny Football fathead...oh good one, you've very clever.
This isn't even about Manziel.
What this is about is Hoyer and people thinking.
Both of those scenarios are insane.
History will not look kindly on people who keep posting about Hoyer's potential.
-
-
Hoyer is the starter and it's not even close. Watch training camp daily...JFF is throwing ducks in the dirt and airmailing everyone. He's not comfortable with the offense, yet.
Hoyer is the starter and it's not even close. Watch training camp daily...JFF is throwing ducks in the dirt and airmailing everyone. He's not comfortable with the offense, yet.
"Showers can do things Manziel can not. He will get bigger and stronger, but right now it isn't even close. Showers is the guy."
"if some of you johnny fanboys would have just listened to me a long time ago, it would have saved you a lot of trouble. Always was going to be Showers. He's the better QB for this system, period."
"Johnny football will take over as soon as Showers drops three games in a row, then we'll come back 9-3." (5.1.2012)
-
Johnny Football poster, good one, you've very clever.
This isn't even about Manziel. I'm excited because of his upside, but I've said over and over he is Boom or Bust. I'm fully aware.What this is about is Hoyer and people thinking that somehow he is either going to 1) Keep the starting job forever and/or 2) Turn into Kurt Warner.
Both of those scenarios are insane.
History will not look kindly on people who keep posting about Hoyers potential greatness.Johnny Football poster, good one, you've very clever.
This isn't even about Manziel. I'm excited because of his upside, but I've said over and over he is Boom or Bust. I'm fully aware.
What this is about is Hoyer and people thinking that somehow he is either going to 1) Keep the starting job forever and/or 2) Turn into Kurt Warner.
Both of those scenarios are insane.
History will not look kindly on people who keep posting about Hoyers potential greatness.
this guy understands opportunity cost.
and has higher aspirations than competing to make the playoffs.
new handles are going to be created over hoyer's performance.
-
Hoyer is the starter and it's not even close. Watch training camp daily...JFF is throwing ducks in the dirt and airmailing everyone. He's not comfortable with the offense, yet.
"Showers can do things Manziel can not. He will get bigger and stronger, but right now it isn't even close. Showers is the guy."
"if some of you johnny fanboys would have just listened to me a long time ago, it would have saved you a lot of trouble. Always was going to be Showers. He's the better QB for this system, period."
"Johnny football will take over as soon as Showers drops three games in a row, then we'll come back 9-3." (5.1.2012)
"Showers can do things Manziel can not. He will get bigger and stronger, but right now it isn't even close. Showers is the guy."
if some of you johnny fanboys would have just listened to me a long time ago, it would have saved you a lot of trouble. Always was going to be Showers. He's the better QB for this system, period." Johnny football will take over as soon as Showers drops three games in a row, then we'll come back 9-3." (5.1.2012)
that's great Tex. we've all got stories. like this one i heard about eating crow...
so, how does it all end? and when do u quit watching?
cuz even if Captain Scrambles helps bring 10 Lombardi's to Cleveland...i'll still be following this team until the day i die.
i'm starting to get concerned for you a bit, this fondness and attachment you have to this man that plays for the Browns. as i've said before, Manziel isn't large and he takes big risks...bluntly he's a serious injury away from fucking up your life.
i think you should probably sit down for this Buddy.
ok good. now ask yourself, if Manziel were to be seriously hurt, would you be able to handle it?
honestly Tex.
WHOAH WHOAH it's ok! i'm here for you. just relax and breathe. what you are experiencing is this thing called "awareness". just stay calm...keep breathing. it'll pass, that's just the "realization" setting in.
we'll work through this Tex, don't worry. you're not alone. **pats shoulder**
that's what we have group for. it's gonna be okay, Tex. i promise.
-
"Showers can do things Manziel can not. He will get bigger and stronger, but right now it isn't even close. Showers is the guy."
if some of you johnny fanboys would have just listened to me a long time ago, it would have saved you a lot of trouble. Always was going to be Showers. He's the better QB for this system, period." Johnny football will take over as soon as Showers drops three games in a row, then we'll come back 9-3." (5.1.2012)
that's great Tex. we've all got stories. like this one i heard about eating crow...
so, how does it all end? and when do u quit watching?
cuz even if Captain Scrambles helps bring 10 Lombardi's to Cleveland...i'll still be following this team until the day i die.
i'm starting to get concerned for you a bit, this fondness and attachment you have to this man that plays for the Browns. as i've said before, Manziel isn't large and he takes big risks...bluntly he's a serious injury away from fucking up your life.
i think you should probably sit down for this Buddy.
ok good. now ask yourself, if Manziel were to be seriously hurt, would you be able to handle it?
honestly Tex.
WHOAH WHOAH it's ok! i'm here for you. just relax and breathe. what you are experiencing is this thing called "awareness". just stay calm...keep breathing. it'll pass, that's just the "realization" setting in.
we'll work through this Tex, don't worry. you're not alone. **pats shoulder**
that's what we have group for. it's gonna be okay, Tex. i promise.
cuz even if Captain Scrambles helps bring 10 Lombardi's to Cleveland...i'll still be following this team until the day i die.
i'm starting to get concerned for you a bit, this fondness and attachment you have to this man that plays for the Browns. as i've said before, Manziel isn't large and he takes big risks...bluntly he's a serious injury away from fucking up your life. sit down for this if you have to. now ask yourself, if Manziel were to be seriously hurt, would you be able to handle it?
You're saying despite it being Johnny Manziel winning, that you'll still be a Browns fan? What kind of comment is that? How much can you already dislike a kid in his 4th practice? You're saying "Even if we win with Johnny Manziel, I wont like it, but I'll still be following the team"
My lord.
And If I'm not mistaken of Hoyer and Manziel, I believe Hoyer is the only one to be seriously hurt? In his 4th game ever no less. Maybe he's reckless or injury prone.
-
Johnny Football Fanboy caught on video defending his idol:
You're mocking the 1st round draft pick of your team. The future starting QB, before he even comes close to playing in a game.
Honestly, what kind of fan is this?
Shouldn't we all be Johnny Manziel fans? Why would a Browns fan ever be mocking Manziel?
This is total insanity.
-
He's playing around. You take everything to seriously.
-
cuz even if Captain Scrambles helps bring 10 Lombardi's to Cleveland...i'll still be following this team until the day i die.
i'm starting to get concerned for you a bit, this fondness and attachment you have to this man that plays for the Browns. as i've said before, Manziel isn't large and he takes big risks...bluntly he's a serious injury away from fucking up your life. sit down for this if you have to. now ask yourself, if Manziel were to be seriously hurt, would you be able to handle it?
You're saying despite it being Johnny Manziel winning, that you'll still be a Browns fan? What kind of comment is that? How much can you already dislike a kid in his 4th practice? You're saying "Even if we win with Johnny Manziel, I wont like it, but I'll still be following the team"
My lord.
And If I'm not mistaken of Hoyer and Manziel, I believe Hoyer is the only one to be seriously hurt? In his 4th game ever no less. Maybe he's reckless or injury prone.
Anti-Browns said:
You're saying despite it being Johnny Manziel winning, that you'll still be a Browns fan? What kind of comment is that? How much can you already dislike a kid in his 4th practice? You're saying "Even if we win with Johnny Manziel, I wont like it, but I'll still be following the team"
My lord.
And If I'm not mistaken of Hoyer and Manziel, I believe Hoyer is the only one to be seriously hurt? In his 4th game ever no less. Maybe he's reckless or injury prone.
wtf??? you kidding??? shit homey i'd LOVE IT. he'd probably bump out e-rock and Bernie and become my favorite player ALL TIME somewhere along that ride...but i'll still be a Browns fan. that will never change.
i'm a fan of all players currently on the team...except maybe Mingo and Kruger for underwhelming a bit...but fyi i don't like Hoyer more than Johnny. i like them both. i just like them differently. and i see them differently. in 3D. different planes. different times. different players. different people. 4D even...
no one here is black and white "all Manziel or nothing"...except maybe you and TX.
-
Johnny Football Fanboy caught on video defending his idol:
You're mocking the 1st round draft pick of your team. The future starting QB, before he even comes close to playing in a game.
Honestly, what kind of fan is this?
Shouldn't we all be Johnny Manziel fans? Why would a Browns fan ever be mocking Manziel?
This is total insanity.
HoyerHater said:
You're mocking the 1st round draft pick of your team. The future starting QB, before he even comes close to playing in a game.
Honestly, what kind of fan is this?
Shouldn't we all be Johnny Manziel fans? Why would a Browns fan ever be mocking Manziel?
This is total insanity.
not speaking for DB but in years of reading him here i never once recall reading where he mocked Manziel.
just his fans.
reading comprehension. try it.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login