Jonathan Paul Manziel
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HoyerHater said:
Only because he made the offense look good instead of the dog crap it looked like under Weeden (Who may I add Hoyer couldn't beat out during last preseason).
I don't know if Manziel is going to be Great, Good, or bad, but he has a skillset that could be very good and has performed at an elite level against the best the college level has to offer, SEC.
However I promise you, no matter how much you want to wish it, that Hoyer is not going to end up Kurt Warner.
Hoyer was on the team for like a week last preseason games. do you even know what the fuck you are talking about??
are you an ignorant new Browns fan i need to decide if i wanna tolerate reading or a troll?
check it out Manziel fanboy, Brian Hoyer didn't just win against the Bengals, he beat a top 5 defense, took everything they could throw at him in stride. he can read defenses IN THE NFL. defensive coordinators around the league already know he can beat the blitz.
Johnny Manziel could start all season and not know half of what Brian Hoyer knows about playing in the NFL. it will happen. just enjoy it.
much of life is about the journey as much as the destination.
Hoyer was on the team for like a week last preseason games. do you even know what the fuck you are talking about??
are you an ignorant new Browns fan i need to decide if i wanna tolerate reading or a troll?
check it out Manziel fanboy, Brian Hoyer didn't just win against the Bengals, he beat a top 5 defense, took everything they could throw at him in stride. he can read defenses IN THE NFL. defensive coordinators around the league already know he can beat the blitz.
Johnny Manziel could start all season and not know half of what Brian Hoyer knows about playing in the NFL. it will happen. just enjoy it.
much of life is about the journey as much as the destination.
You dont know what you're talking about. Hoyer was signed by the Browns in May of 2013 after being cut by the Cardinals. So I ask you, are you ignorant or a troll. You don't seem to know much about what you're talking about.
He had one good game against the Bengals. It happens. I could list a ton of average to below average QBs who put back to back wins together over the last few years, and with better stats than Hoyer. Usually a QB can replace a starter and have some success mostly because teams don't know how to prepare for the new guy. Once film is out and they adjust then you see regression.
Clearly Hoyer knows more about the NFL than Manziel since he's been in the league since 2009. However he only had 3 full games worth of experience and in those games he wasn't amazing. I bet Manziel will start more than 4 games in his first 5 years in the league and theres a reason for that.
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girlz from texas in da house.
stockuponshorts must be a dj cuz she sure knows how to loop her rap...to bad she only has one beat.
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****TO CLARIFY****
I DO NOT THINK MANZIEL'S COLLEGE STATS MEAN ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO FREE POINTS ON AN NFL SCOREBOARD
Now, when you discuss a player, discussing his past matters.
he's the first QB under 6' drafted in the first round and you're going to tell me his stats don't matter? What does?
Sorry, if it doesn't help your agnda. Saying history is insignificant and means jack shit is ignorant. Now, do I think he will match his college stats? no. But trying to erase the guys history is disingenuous., there are no comparablesto manziel. none.
quit saying the guys past doesn't matter in one breath while complaining about a twitter pic in the next.
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Here's the game plan:
1. Hoyer Starts and lights it up
2. Hoyer starts and sucks, Manziel comes in and lights it up
3. Hoyer starts and sucks, Manziel comes and and sucks
4. Go all in on Mariota or Winston or Hundley
bet ur favorite holiday is Christmas
bet ur favorite holiday is Christmas
I bet your really creative in the writing process.
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Remember that game "Lets Make a Deal"
They would give someone in the audience a prize, like a dishwasher and then they'd say "Ok you can either keep this dishwasher OR trade it in for what's in the box" and in the box there would be either a Zonk prize like fake money or a oversized pair of jeans OR in the box there could be a trip to Hawaii or keys to a new car.
Well thats Hoyer and Manziel. We have our dishwasher, and in Manziel we either are going to get a something amazing or Zonk.
For all the years the Browns have been stuck in neutral, I want whats in the box. The dishwasher is fine, but its just a dishwasher. Give me the chance for the big prize. -
Remember that game "Lets Make a Deal"
They would give someone in the audience a prize, like a dishwasher and then they'd say "Ok you can either keep this dishwasher OR trade it in for what's in the box" and in the box there would be either a Zonk prize like fake money or a oversized pair of jeans OR in the box there could be a trip to Hawaii or keys to a new car.
Well thats Hoyer and Manziel. We have our dishwasher, and in Manziel we either are going to get a something amazing or Zonk.
For all the years the Browns have been stuck in neutral, I want whats in the box. The dishwasher is fine, but its just a dishwasher. Give me the chance for the big prize.Remember that game "Lets Make a Deal"
They would give someone in the audience a prize, like a dishwasher and then they'd say "Ok you can either keep this dishwasher OR trade it in for what's in the box" and in the box there would be either a Zonk prize like fake money or a oversized pair of jeans OR in the box there could be a trip to Hawaii or keys to a new car.
Well thats Hoyer and Manziel. We have our dishwasher, and in Manziel we either are going to get a something amazing or Zonk.
For all the years the Browns have been stuck in neutral, I want whats in the box. The dishwasher is fine, but its just a dishwasher. Give me the chance for the big prize.
In that situation, you're actually supposed to switch every single time.
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Manziel certainly has a lot to learn, but he is a 21 year old rookie. I think that when he's ready, he'll do very well. Most of the busts I've seen have plenty of athleticism but lack in the intelligence aspect. Johnny is SMART in addition to his athleticism & instincts. That, to me, is the key to his future success. Right now, he is learning & does what anyone does before they understand their new endeavor...he's over thinking. I know I've done the same when accepting an upgraded position. Then, when I understood what I was expected to do, it became something I didn't have to think about anymore....it literally became an instant reaction. He'll get there. Time will tell whether that's sooner or later. I trust this Coaching staff to start him WHEN he's ready & not before.
Mike
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bet ur favorite holiday is Christmas
I bet your really creative in the writing process.
im better at creative imagining if im being totally honest. im told im like a donald trump of daydreaming.I bet your really creative in the writing process.
so i take it this Manziel fellar is from Texas?? what's his story, he win a big fancy college bowl game or somethin?
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****TO CLARIFY****
I DO NOT THINK MANZIEL'S COLLEGE STATS MEAN ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO FREE POINTS ON AN NFL SCOREBOARD
Now, when you discuss a player, discussing his past matters.
he's the first QB under 6' drafted in the first round and you're going to tell me his stats don't matter? What does?
Sorry, if it doesn't help your agnda. Saying history is insignificant and means jack shit is ignorant. Now, do I think he will match his college stats? no. But trying to erase the guys history is disingenuous., there are no comparablesto manziel. none.
quit saying the guys past doesn't matter in one breath while complaining about a twitter pic in the next.
****TO CLARIFY****
I DO NOT THINK MANZIEL'S COLLEGE STATS MEAN ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO FREE POINTS ON AN NFL SCOREBOARD
Now, when you discuss a player, discussing his past matters.
he's the first QB under 6' drafted in the first round and you're going to tell me his stats don't matter? What does?
Sorry, if it doesn't help your agnda. Saying history is insignificant and means jack shit is ignorant. Now, do I think he will match his college stats? no. But trying to erase the guys history is disingenuous., there are no comparablesto manziel. none.
quit saying the guys past doesn't matter in one breath while complaining about a twitter pic in the next.
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
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****TO CLARIFY****
I DO NOT THINK MANZIEL'S COLLEGE STATS MEAN ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO FREE POINTS ON AN NFL SCOREBOARD
Now, when you discuss a player, discussing his past matters.
he's the first QB under 6' drafted in the first round and you're going to tell me his stats don't matter? What does?
Sorry, if it doesn't help your agnda. Saying history is insignificant and means jack shit is ignorant. Now, do I think he will match his college stats? no. But trying to erase the guys history is disingenuous., there are no comparablesto manziel. none.
quit saying the guys past doesn't matter in one breath while complaining about a twitter pic in the next.
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
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"...Willie Beeaaaman..."
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Showers VS Manziel
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2077755&forum_id=5
a lolz
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2132169&forum_id=5
after his first game
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2147248&forum_id=5
I expect this board to mirror.
you guys forget, been here, heard that. his HS stats didn't matter either. kid is special. nothing you've seen before. will it translate? IDK.
I think so though.
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Showers VS Manziel
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2077755&forum_id=5
a lolz
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2132169&forum_id=5
after his first game
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2147248&forum_id=5
I expect this board to mirror.
you guys forget, been here, heard that. his HS stats didn't matter either. kid is special. nothing you've seen before. will it translate? IDK.
I think so though.
Showers VS Manziel
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2077755&forum_id=5
a lolz
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2132169&forum_id=5
after his first game
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2147248&forum_id=5
I expect this board to mirror.
you guys forget, been here, heard that. his HS stats didn't matter either. kid is special. nothing you've seen before. will it translate? IDK.
I think so though.
Those links are insane to read.
The first one is almost identical to this thread, it really is eerie.
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Manziel has enough people in the media attacking him, you'd think he'd get a break from the Browns fans at least.
But nope. Don't want to support the future QB of the Browns. Well why not? Oh because he takes selfies and parties in Vegas.
Sounds fair. What fantastic fans to play for.
Damn. I didn't realize we had to adjust our attitudes for a rookie. I thought it was the other way around.
Damn. I didn't realize we had to adjust our attitudes for a rookie. I thought it was the other way around.
The Manziel fans can't figure out why we're skeptical Well here's why
As The Gipper eloquently pointed out- our logic is- can JFF succeed where so many others have tried and failed?
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
There are an infinite amount of variables that can affect how successful a player becomes in the NFL. Scheme fit, maturity, weather, coaching, supporting cast, freak injuries, player strikes, family tragedies, car accidents - all of those can affect a player's chances of having a strong NFL career.
I love Manziel. I absolutely love the pick. Because, even if he crashes and burns, he'll have brought a bunch of media attention to the team during this transition phase. To those who poo-poo the attention and claim it's negative...there's no such thing as negative publicity. Airtime, whether good or bad, is airtime.To an extent I agree TC, but the Manziel Mania is drawing attention away from the rest of the team. This thread is a good example. I'd much rather have news (and discuss) how Gilbert and Bitono are looking than have to tilt at windmills with the JF camp. That will sort itself out in due time.
Did you just say that any 8-8 QB is the same as a Super Bowl winning QB? Excuse me "SuperBall"? That is insane.
I would say any NFL starting quarterback could start for any damn team in the SEC- and 90+% of them would have been starting ahead of Johnny Football at A&M.
NFL is about talent above all. This idea that "Well he's a family man and works hard" is about 2% of the equation. The biggest part of the equation is talent.
Manziel has shown a rare talent in the most difficult defensive league in college football. Now is that the NFL? No, but there's no higher level to measure a college QB against than the SEC. Thats enough to get me excited about his prospects. Nobody expects him to come in and be perfect, but I do anticipate seeing what he can do in the NFL. Of course he's not ready right now, but he'll be ready at some point and when he is no Las Vegas selfie, or hat on backwards, or how many hours he studied the playbook is going to matter...only talent. Thats all there is to it.
What people that are not around professional sports always lack is understanding that it's about the talent. Professional sports is not fair, there are plenty of guys who are lazy and are amazing athletes and they beat out guys who work their butts off and study every day. Its about talent. People want to romanticize it, that it's these people who have worked so hard and crafted this art for so many years. Nope. It's talent. That's why guys like Jordan Cameron are millionaires. Talent. Played essentially no football, but still ends up being a pro bowler. Talent. Manziel has shown the potential for great talent. If it translates to the NFL, then he will be very very very good.
It's not all about "talent"- the most "talented" players get drafted in the first round- and it's littered with busts- even at the quarterback position. If it was all about talent- guys like Jeff George or Ryan Leaf would be in the HOF. Talent helps- but it's not the sole factor (beyond a cetain point) to predict NFL success.
college to the NFL isn't chess to cricket.
stats aren't everything
but when a guy goes out a does what johnny did on a football field, it matters when discussing his football ability.
I can't say it any slower.
it is not everything-but it is something.
I'm not discounting that. Geeze, I see Jerry Jones is having reverse buyer's remorse. Yup Jerry- the media circus would be in Dallas, not Cleveland, I'm sure you would have loved it.
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the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Only in your mind it doesn't. My alternate universe says Hoyer light it up, gets voted NFL MVP after he wins the Super Bowl, and we trade JFF to the Cowboys for a couple of first round picks. Ya see once upon a time we had this 17th round draft choice come in and get voted NFL MVP- guy by the name of Brian Sipe.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
Here's the huge difference. If Manziel flops- you guys will be long gone- just like our #1 never to be forgotten Derek Anderson homer Lumburgh. However, we as Browns fans will still be here- regardless. Maybe JF will be the answer. And I'll turn the tables on you- if you want to better understand the Cleveland psyche. If JF was from Cleveland, and Hoyer was from Texas, you can damn well bet it would be one hell of a lot different- Hoyer wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of being the starter- the fans would have rioted. But hate to tell you, that's not the case- TC and the preseason games will determine who the better qb currently is- and that's all that matters. FWIW, I think it would be monumentally stupid to trot Manziel out there in the opener against the Steelers- on the road. If it was at home against the Jaguars, I might think differently.
BTW, I'd suggest you look a little higher up in this thread as to why Hoyer has merely been "a career backup". Was he going to beat out Brady in NE, or Rothlisberger in Pittsburgh? Nope. Arizona put a second round tender on him and no one was willing to pay up. Seems like Mike Lombardi (in one of his few smart moves) had seen enough of Hoyer in NE for the Browns to claim him.
Here's a little more history for you Stockton- that I'd bet you a C note you didn't know. In the 1999 Expansion draft, the Rams thought so little of Kurt Warner he was available to the Browns- and they passed. Here's his 1998 stats: He ended his season completing only 4 of 11 pass attempts for 39 yards and a 47.2 QB rating. You may now STFU about Hoyer's (mediocre) undefeated 2013 season.
Those links are insane to read.
The first one is almost identical to this thread, it really is eerie.
I will give you the Stock Market investment disclaimer- past performance is no indicator of future results
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the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
ok so why are you posting 12 times a day about how we all hate him and blah blah blah.
manziel is the starter (just not yet). badda bing badda boom. end of story.
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You can say all you want that College success doesn't guarantee NFL success, and you're correct.
However it is a pretty good indicator. If you're a great player in college you have a much better chance at being a good NFL player than a player who wasn't great in college.
You're treating it like it's a crap shoot. It's not a crap shoot. Those players drafted in the 1st round, were picked because they were great in college. Now some will not live up to it in the NFL, but they're far more likely to become Pro Bowl players than 5th round picks and there's a reason for that.
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
There are an infinite amount of variables that can affect how successful a player becomes in the NFL. Scheme fit, maturity, weather, coaching, supporting cast, freak injuries, player strikes, family tragedies, car accidents - all of those can affect a player's chances of having a strong NFL career.
But having success in college doesn't indicate success in the NFL. Not one bit. It's not a predictor.
Partly because "success" is too relative a term. What is succesful for one program may not be successful for another. Sure, Peyton Manning was a success in college and is a success in the NFL. Same goes for Andrew Luck and RG3. But would you call Brady's college career a success? What about Ryan Tannehill's? What about Nick Foles'? Stafford's? Their careers were, for the most part, underwhelming. Singularly, they were successful players. But they never won a championship, never won a Heisman, never went undefeated.
Jeremiah Masoli had a decently successful career with Oregon. As did Dennis Dixon. Neither of them have amounted to shit in the NFL .
In a way, it is a crap shoot. It's not a crap shoot in terms of talent. Johnny is immensly talented. But what is a crap shoot is everything else. Hoyer may go on to flip a switch and become great. Johnny may tear an ACL in training camp. Manziel may get the start and half of the offensive line may go down with injury.
I love Manziel. I absolutely love the pick. Because, even if he crashes and burns, he'll have brought a bunch of media attention to the team during this transition phase. To those who poo-poo the attention and claim it's negative...there's no such thing as negative publicity. Airtime, whether good or bad, is airtime.
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
Wouldn't that mean they would be as many 7th round picks starting today as first round picks?
WSS
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