Hoyer will start !
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I like the blue.
Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.
If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ.
Mikey Lives!
Zombo
--glad we still have someone to parry with Tour
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You have no idea as well as anyone else on here how soon manziel is going to be the qb.
Quit acting like everything you say is gospel and all others are stupid. You'll have a tough time around here.
I doubt you watched a single game Hoyer played in last season to even give the man judgement. You're just a Manziel groupie and will follow where ever he goes.
I don't know how soon Manziel will be the starter, you're right. I do know he WILL be the starter at some point. That can not be denied. If you think I'm wrong, by all means tell me so.
And I did watch Hoyer last year. From his 3 INT game against Minny to his very good game where they didn't ask him to do much against the Bengals, to the brief appearance in the Buffalo game where he attempted the most nonathletic slide in NFL history. I watched every second.
Those who think Brian Hoyer is a good, quality, NFL QB....you are the ones I question if you actually watched those games.
You can talk about "Manziel Fanboys" all you want around here, but none of this has anything to do with Manziel. Its the "Hoyer Fanboys" who have somehow reinvented a career backup into a future HOF off of two complete games, neither of which did he look much better than say a Mark Sanchez.
You seem to ignore the fact that the Browns themselves decided they love Hoyer so much, that they took a QB in the 1st round. Doesn't matter it was Manziel, it would've been Teddy B otherwise, but either way they went into the draft saying "We need a QB, and badly" and went out and got one. That's how good the Browns think Brian Hoyer is.
You can try to pretend that you're fighting these "Manziel Trolls" all you want, but some people are smart enough to realize that the future QB is Manziel, so might as well get on board now and hope he's good. Hoyer is a bookmark until the Manziel era begins. Thats not being a fanboy, thats understanding NFL football.
I don't know how soon Manziel will be the starter, you're right. I do know he WILL be the starter at some point. That can not be denied. If you think I'm wrong, by all means tell me so.
And I did watch Hoyer last year. From his 3 INT game against Minny to his very good game where they didn't ask him to do much against the Bengals, to the brief appearance in the Buffalo game where he attempted the most nonathletic slide in NFL history. I watched every second.
Those who think Brian Hoyer is a good, quality, NFL QB....you are the ones I question if you actually watched those games.
You can talk about "Manziel Fanboys" all you want around here, but none of this has anything to do with Manziel. Its the "Hoyer Fanboys" who have somehow reinvented a career backup into a future HOF off of two complete games, neither of which did he look much better than say a Mark Sanchez.
You seem to ignore the fact that the Browns themselves decided they love Hoyer so much, that they took a QB in the 1st round. Doesn't matter it was Manziel, it would've been Teddy B otherwise, but either way they went into the draft saying "We need a QB, and badly" and went out and got one. That's how good the Browns think Brian Hoyer is.
You can try to pretend that you're fighting these "Manziel Trolls" all you want, but some people are smart enough to realize that the future QB is Manziel, so might as well get on board now and hope he's good. Hoyer is a bookmark until the Manziel era begins. Thats not being a fanboy, thats understanding NFL football.
as long as we're speaking hypotheticals and putting words in other's mouths, my version has this fantasy closer to something like this:
"We have a promising and competent looking vet QB in his prime...but he's just coming back from an injury. With a billion dollar organization, that is plain and simply not enough to go into a season with. At draft time, when we saw a guy who was rated high by many accounts slide to #22, at that value we felt it was worth taking a shot on him to help fill our needs. He's a high risk/high reward boom or bust kid with insane intangibles...but has a wreckless--yet very effective vs college players--playing style.
Between the two, we feel we're going into this season with each of them off-setting the risks of the other. But you never know, we very well may draft a QB again next year...and to that end, it's fortunate that we have some extra ammo in the form of the 1st rd pick we got from the Bills."
>> that same pick they felt was more valuable and important to acquire "just in case" than draft ANY of the QB's at the top of the draft.
what you suggest by tossing the evaluating process and going "all-in" on Manziel is akin to gambling. the gambler approach can help you lose your franchise.
grinders take the long view and hedge their bets...and put themselves in advantageous positions to take down the gamblers at the right moment. taking this grifter attitude to the NFL has won superbowls.
they did not draft JFF to be the starter. they drafted Manziel for the exact same reason they acquired Thigpen, Young, Shaw, same reason previous FO acquired Hoyer...A CHANCE TO FIND THE CLEVELAND BROWNS FRANCHISE QB OF THE FUTURE.
starting is temporary, and a band-aid won't get CLE a ring. Franchise QB or bust!
fwiw Shaw had the fastest time of all QB's at the combine (4.62) and had the best touchdown to interception ratio in the NCAA. same as ur Johnny's "Lumbergh" i'd bet somewhere out there Connor Shaw has a version of his own Lumbergh as well. we regulars are not Lumbergh's for Hoyer. we are Browns fans, plain and simple. even the day Belicheat benched Bernie, never stopped being a Browns fan for a second my entire life. you will never understand this mentality. you are a grifter troll attempting to be guile using a poor Browns guise--a Manziel fan in fake Browns clothing. and had Manziel been drafted by another of the 31 other teams, you would be posing as a fan of theirs trolling their boards as i type this.
if you wanna crown em prematurely by all means have at it fanboy, crown em. if Manziel ever happens to become that guy ur trophy will still say nothing more than "you happened to guess right"
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I like the blue.
Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.
If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.I like the blue.
Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.
If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.
that certainly is the logical view.. I assume if the front office had as much faith in Brian Hoyer as the ousted administration they might have gone with a lower round pick for a second quarterback.
if for some reason Brian Hoyer goes 16 and 0 then great. if he does not I will be cheering for Johnny to live up to the hype. And as always the next guy to beat the Steelers is my boy.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.
...but then you went ahead and said it better anyway...
... or at least took it deeper...I'm trying to think of the last QB drafted outside of the top ten that was clearly drafted to be the immediate starter. My pride won't let it be Wheezy... although it became pretty clear that QB competition was a sham. I believe Marino qualifies since the Fins went 7-2 despite David Woodley in '82.
Looks like most recent example was the Ravens taking Flacco at #18 overall in 2008.
...but then you went ahead and said it better anyway...
... or at least took it deeper...I'm trying to think of the last QB drafted outside of the top ten that was clearly drafted to be the immediate starter. My pride won't let it be Wheezy... although it became pretty clear that QB competition was a sham. I believe Marino qualifies since the Fins went 7-2 despite David Woodley in '82.
Looks like most recent example was the Ravens taking Flacco at #18 overall in 2008.
Interesting that you went with Flacco. He's certainly the most successful and his success does dispute my claim a tiny bit.
The thing about Flacco is that he was considered a reach at #17 by many, most analysts claimed they thought he'd be available in the early second. He was clearly taken to be their starter since they had nobody else and he had no competition throughout camp.
Flacco, like Marino, is the exception to the rule. More often than not, though, you get situations like Druckenmiller, Losman, Freeman, Tebow (kind of), etc. where the guy is available, you know you'll need a QB soon, so you take him late first and try and groom him behind another QB but it just doesn't work out.
Aside: I found this tidbit funny from CBSSports.com
Compares To: DEREK ANDERSON-Cleveland … Few quarterbacks in the NFL tower over a defensive line like Flacco and Anderson. Flacco has nowhere near Anderson's mobility moving around the backfield, but both have great confidence in their arm strength and ability to make all the throws. He has become the new girl on the dance floor in recent months, thanks to a decent showing in postseason all-star games. But be warned: Don't look at him as a product ready to step into the action at the next level. He came from a bad high school system, was held in mild regard at Pittsburgh and is basically a self-taught prospect, making him a work in progress who'll need time to learn the intricacies of the position. He probably has the best arm of any quarterback in this draft. But he also lacks experience, is unproven against top-level competition, played mostly in the shotgun and has barely adequate mobility. That combination makes him a risk if he's chosen in the top two rounds.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
First, I have made the same post as you in the past. I expect JM to start for us sometime in 2014 and he may even be THE starter from that game on this season. That's not the point... You have a bad habit of ignoring my main point in favor of some tangential argument. This is just the latest example. It's grown tiresome.
I see your logic as being "JM will be the starter therefore you may as well hand him the job now." If you can, please explain to me how I am wrong.
I don't know how many times I've said JM will be the starter WHEN HES READY. Thats all the Browns are waiting on. When he gets to the level they think he needs to be at, he's the starter. How is that saying they should hand him the job now?
Everything the Browns are doing is about Manziel. Its all about getting him ready. When he's ready the job is his.
I don't know how many times I've said JM will be the starter WHEN HES READY. Thats all the Browns are waiting on. When he gets to the level they think he needs to be at, he's the starter. How is that saying they should hand him the job now?
Everything the Browns are doing is about Manziel. Its all about getting him ready. When he's ready the job is his.
how is this any different than any player on the QB roster? they are only focused on Manziel? the others are simply camp arms?? WRONG. he may be the best chance for long term with his upside, but right now no one has a clue who will be the Browns QB starting the 2015 season. NO ONE.
Tour, my statement Hoyer walks talks and acts like he has the job right now cannot be challenged, he has said it himself countless times. it's infallible.
the "because he does" part is also supported by the consensus of reports and interviews. the only anamoly is Shanahan's comment about "no one currently being ahead" which requires proper context and should be taken with a grain of salt. he has an obligation to not only motivate his players but also a financial responsibility to the franchise regarding the handling of Manziel's fans. all accounts coming into this camp said Hoyer was still clearly ahead. nothing since has changed that.
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I like the blue.
Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.
If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.
that certainly is the logical view.. I assume if the front office had as much faith in Brian Hoyer as the ousted administration they might have gone with a lower round pick for a second quarterback.
if for some reason Brian Hoyer goes 16 and 0 then great. if he does not I will be cheering for Johnny to live up to the hype. And as always the next guy to beat the Steelers is my boy.
WSS
that certainly is the logical view.. I assume if the front office had as much faith in Brian Hoyer as the ousted administration they might have gone with a lower round pick for a second quarterback.
if for some reason Brian Hoyer goes 16 and 0 then great. if he does not I will be cheering for Johnny to live up to the hype. And as always the next guy to beat the Steelers is my boy.
WSS
I think the FO may have also been looking at the fifth year option that's available for 1st round picks.
Seeing as QB's are one of the most expensive positions, this might be a good move if the QB is even just decent (still a lot money).
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Picasso have unrealistic ideas about the abilities of Brian Hoyer as well?
Maybe you do. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HoyeBr00.htm I see one really bad game in his career, and a 80 QBR up there.
I like the blue.
Hoyer isn't going to be the starter long term. It's not a competition. Its a "Hoyer can start until we think Manziel is ready". Manziel isn't even competing against Hoyer he's competing against what the coaches expectations are. Once he meets those, Hoyer is out. Doesn't mean I think Manziel is going to be awesome, because I don't know. He could suck. However the idea that he's somehow competing to be the long term QB, and not being groomed to be the long term QB is wrong.
If you don't realize this, then you have low football IQ. There's no gray area here, that's the black and white of it.
Really Stockton- don't go continually insulting people if they don't happen to agree with your opinion- that's what got Mike H run out of town. That "black and white" happens to be your opinion. My opinion is Manziel was drafted by the Browns because the FO considered him to be a "value" pick in the bottom of the first- AND filled a need. Don't forget JFF was (not) thought of so highly by some scouts and analysts- they didn't even have a first round grade on him. Virtually everyone considered JF a Boom\Bust proposition pre-draft, and the Browns were playing with house money on that selection, those were bonus picks acquired from the Colts and Steelers. Farmer had the ammunition to roll the dice.
So yeah, JFF just like they say in Missouri "Show Me (us)". I hope he does well just like Gilbert, and Bitonio. This kid isn't the Le Bron James "can't miss" of the football world- drafted in the same spot as Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden, he's got a lot to prove, and not just out on the practice field and preseason, when teams are playing don't show anything base defenses.There's a ton of us wait and see guys out there. Should Hoyer light it up, Manziel is going to be sitting- for a long time. If he sucks in the first three games, you'll get your wish to see Manziel- after the bye week.
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Who has one of those?would owning one of those jerseys be better or worse than taping over "Kosar" and writing in "Austin"?
just curious what others think.
WSS
Who has one of those?
WSS
betcha a stadium beer it happens
Bernie's ex wife might have one. lol
or how about an Austin fan w a #19 Kosar cowboys jersey covered w "Austin" worn this year? less probable, but wholly possible.
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What do Picasso and Frisky have in common?
and Hoyer walks, talks, and acts like he has the job right now, because right now he does.
What do Picasso and Frisky have in common?
im thinkin u were just ribbin' me
, but just in case here's a refresher on my stance.i'll admit, if the score were tied in overtime if JFF legitimately got them that far i'd rather have his intangibles and moxy in there for the final shootout. Hoyer is solid, but if Johnny can surpass him and stay healthy, his passion, unpredictability, and potential high ceiling could finally be the final major piece to our puzzle.
i just don't like bullies picking on ANY Browns, and although i play devil's advocate frequently poetic G and i actually have similar fandom to a great extent.
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What do Picasso and Frisky have in common?
and Hoyer walks, talks, and acts like he has the job right now, because right now he does.
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Im loving this, I mean I am surprised to see people double down on stupidity like this but keep it going. I want as much written for prosperity as possible.
Its like were playing poker and I have the absolute nuts and yet you keep raising my bet every street. Im stunned but really, thank you. Keep betting that Manziel might not start and Hoyer is a quality QB. You feel great now but soon enough it'll be time to turn over the cards.
My favorite is how its a knock on Manziel that he fell allll the way to 22nd in the first round, meanwhile its some kind of admirable positive that Hoyer went undrafted and has been cut three times in five years. Pleas continue that. Its amazing to see.
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Im loving this, I mean I am surprised to see people double down on stupidity like this but keep it going. I want as much written for prosperity as possible.
Its like were playing poker and I have the absolute nuts and yet you keep raising my bet every street. Im stunned but really, thank you. Keep betting that Manziel might not start and Hoyer is a quality QB. You feel great now but soon enough it'll be time to turn over the cards.
My favorite is how its a knock on Manziel that he fell allll the way to 22nd in the first round, meanwhile its some kind of admirable positive that Hoyer went undrafted and has been cut three times in five years. Pleas continue that. Its amazing to see.
Im loving this, I mean I am surprised to see people double down on stupidity like this but keep it going. I want as much written for prosperity as possible.
Its like were playing poker and I have the absolute nuts and yet you keep raising my bet every street. Im stunned but really, thank you. Keep betting that Manziel might not start and Hoyer is a quality QB. You feel great now but soon enough it'll be time to turn over the cards.
My favorite is how its a knock on Manziel that he fell allll the way to 22nd in the first round, meanwhile its some kind of admirable positive that Hoyer went undrafted and has been cut three times in five years. Pleas continue that. Its amazing to see.
dude, every post of yours is the same.
i could repost your first post and it'll be the same as your last one.
come up with something original and try not sounding like a little douchebag when doing so.
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Im loving this, I mean I am surprised to see people double down on stupidity like this but keep it going. I want as much written for prosperity as possible.
Its like were playing poker and I have the absolute nuts and yet you keep raising my bet every street. Im stunned but really, thank you. Keep betting that Manziel might not start and Hoyer is a quality QB. You feel great now but soon enough it'll be time to turn over the cards.
My favorite is how its a knock on Manziel that he fell allll the way to 22nd in the first round, meanwhile its some kind of admirable positive that Hoyer went undrafted and has been cut three times in five years. Pleas continue that. Its amazing to see.
Im loving this, I mean I am surprised to see people double down on stupidity like this but keep it going. I want as much written for prosperity as possible.
Its like were playing poker and I have the absolute nuts and yet you keep raising my bet every street. Im stunned but really, thank you. Keep betting that Manziel might not start and Hoyer is a quality QB. You feel great now but soon enough it'll be time to turn over the cards.
My favorite is how its a knock on Manziel that he fell allll the way to 22nd in the first round, meanwhile its some kind of admirable positive that Hoyer went undrafted and has been cut three times in five years. Pleas continue that. Its amazing to see.
Where have you read that Manziel "might not start"? I'd love to see where someone said "Manziel will never start for the Browns".
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The big thing is that Hoyer led the Browns to wins in his limited exposure. Everyone wants Manziel to instantly start, but he hasn't even played a snap in an actual NFL game yet, unlike Hoyer, so there is absolutely no reason to rush him. I want whoever is going to win us games to start, but I firmly believe that Hoyer is that guy as of this moment in time given his experience. Until they get into an actual game we really just don't know because I know Weeden looked like a superstar last night in his first preseason game and we all know how legit that was.
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The big thing is that Hoyer led the Browns to wins in his limited exposure. Everyone wants Manziel to instantly start, but he hasn't even played a snap in an actual NFL game yet, unlike Hoyer, so there is absolutely no reason to rush him. I want whoever is going to win us games to start, but I firmly believe that Hoyer is that guy as of this moment in time given his experience. Until they get into an actual game we really just don't know because I know Weeden looked like a superstar last night in his first preseason game and we all know how legit that was.
The big thing is that Hoyer led the Browns to wins in his limited exposure.
He started, yes. That's legit. but led? IDK about that. His stats weren't that great.
Everyone wants Manziel to instantly start, but he hasn't even played a snap in an actual NFL game yet, unlike Hoyer, so there is absolutely no reason to rush him.
I agree there is no reason to rush Manziel. Who cares about winning? "No" reason?
Unlike Manziel, Hoyer hasn't taken game snaps in 5 straight weeks in over 5 seasons. this idea that Hoyer is experienced is odd to me. He's experienced at practice; let's not overstate this one. Dude hasn't even started 25% of a single NFL season. One season he spent on the practice squad.
I want whoever is going to win us games to start, but I firmly believe that Hoyer is that guy as of this moment in time given his experience.
Resign Vince!
Until they get into an actual game we really just don't know because I know Weeden looked like a superstar last night in his first preseason game and we all know how legit that was.
Finally. I agree.
it's just odd to me practice squad snaps count but SEC snaps don't.
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good call.
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Mikey is lonely. Schizophrenia usually starts in the 20's.
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