If A QB sucks after 2 years, he sucks.
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And to that extent, I disagree with your point here about Sipe. He rode the pine on the Taxi Squad for a couple of years, then was a backup for a while. He certainly wasn't "garbage" his first 4 years as a starter......he didn't play. When Sipe began to start he began to do well.
I loved Sipe, but we (yes, me included) romanticize him way beyond his actual performance. He really only had one, great, Kardiac-filled year... 1980.
"Garbage" may seem a harsh assessment of his first, four-years, but objectively, it's close to true.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SipeBr00.htm
I loved Sipe, but we (yes, me included) romanticize him way beyond his actual performance. He really only had one, great, Kardiac-filled year... 1980.
"Garbage" may seem a harsh assessment of his first, four-years, but objectively, it's close to true.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SipeBr00.htm
Well, he was drafted in 1972. He didn't play a game for 2 years. And for two years he was a backup, playing in only 2 and 5 games. So, that was his first 4 years. For the next 4 years he was a starter he was just a little above .500: 7-5, 5-4, 8-8, 9-7.
Then certainly he had a massive year in 1980.
No, I would say he was "good" and only great for one year. And honestly, yes, he followed up his great year with kind of a bad year.
And note, for his career as a starter he was only 57-55......and never won a postseason game. I love the guy but truth be told, he never took us anywhere we wanted to go....playoff wise.
And let's note this about those teams: Sipe was not the worry about those teams. They played fairly poor defense that entire era.
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I loved Sipe, but we (yes, me included) romanticize him way beyond his actual performance. He really only had one, great, Kardiac-filled year... 1980.
"Garbage" may seem a harsh assessment of his first, four-years, but objectively, it's close to true.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SipeBr00.htm
Well, he was drafted in 1972. He didn't play a game for 2 years. And for two years he was a backup, playing in only 2 and 5 games. So, that was his first 4 years. For the next 4 years he was a starter he was just a little above .500: 7-5, 5-4, 8-8, 9-7.
Then certainly he had a massive year in 1980.
No, I would say he was "good" and only great for one year. And honestly, yes, he followed up his great year with kind of a bad year.
And note, for his career as a starter he was only 57-55......and never won a postseason game. I love the guy but truth be told, he never took us anywhere we wanted to go....playoff wise.
And let's note this about those teams: Sipe was not the worry about those teams. They played fairly poor defense that entire era.
Well, he was drafted in 1972. He didn't play a game for 2 years. And for two years he was a backup, playing in only 2 and 5 games. So, that was his first 4 years. For the next 4 years he was a starter he was just a little above .500: 7-5, 5-4, 8-8, 9-7.
My bad... By "his" I meant years when he started all, or nearly all, games and those were '76 thru '79. But regardless win/loss is not the way to judge him.
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This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
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This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
Your avatar screams "trashbasket douchebag", yet we don't judge.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
Your avatar screams "trashbasket douchebag", yet we don't judge.
Your avatar screams "trashbasket douchebag", yet we don't judge.
Is that him....or is it Ricky Fowler?
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This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
Your avatar screams "trashbasket douchebag", yet we don't judge.
Your avatar screams "trashbasket douchebag", yet we don't judge.
I do!
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This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
I can't even fathom that. It would be so damn exciting.
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Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
I can't even fathom that. It would be so damn exciting.
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This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
... and back to hit and run...
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This entire thread screams Brian Hoyer
Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it. There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
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Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it. There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it. There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
So it's nonsensical to talk about Hoyer performing well, but it's not nonsensical to talk about JF performing well?
I would love to know the reasoning behind that.
-
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it. There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
So it's nonsensical to talk about Hoyer performing well, but it's not nonsensical to talk about JF performing well?
I would love to know the reasoning behind that.
So it's nonsensical to talk about Hoyer performing well, but it's not nonsensical to talk about JF performing well?
I would love to know the reasoning behind that.
If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
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So it's nonsensical to talk about Hoyer performing well, but it's not nonsensical to talk about JF performing well?
I would love to know the reasoning behind that.
If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
You seem to think people are claiming he's going to be the NFL MVP. All people are saying is that it would be nice if he turned out to be something more than what he is. Right now, he's beating JF in a QB contest. Therefore, he's the Browns starting QB. Until JF takes a hold of that job, Hoyer is a better quarterback.
You're chastising a guy because he failed to beat out Tom Brady for a starting job.
Fucking ridiculous.
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So it's nonsensical to talk about Hoyer performing well, but it's not nonsensical to talk about JF performing well?
I would love to know the reasoning behind that.
If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
That's reality.
Sorry dude, but that's just your opinion... or, if you like, your reality.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
That's reality.
Sorry dude, but that's just your opinion... or, if you like, your reality.
Sorry dude, but that's just your opinion... or, if you like, your reality.
History is going to be kind to one of us.
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Yea, the comparison of Hoyer to Sipe had been made long ago. As noted, each barely played there first 4 years.....but then Sipe went on to become the MVP of the NFL and became and still is the Browns all time leader in passing yards.
What would you think of that? If Hoyer became NFL MVP?
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it. There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
It is not nonsensical, it is highly speculative. Learn to know the difference. Brian Sipe was a 13th round draft pick that became league MVP. Kurt Warner was a UDFA that won league MVP. Brian Hoyer, like them could possibly become league MVP. It is possible because it has happened before. Something nonsensical is something that never has and never could happen. This could theoretically.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it.
I don't have to come to terms with it....or deal with it.....because, like Tommy Lee Jones "I don't care". but I can speculate about the possibility because I am a fan and can do what I damn well please. If Hoyer flops, no big deal, we got JFF.
It is a bigger deal if JFF flops. A lot more is expected out of him, but virtue of his draft status and his notoriety.
There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
Again, I don't care what "people" or what some websites say about him. I only care that he performs well and wins. Nothing else really matters.
And if he don't get it done....so be it. I ain't gonna cry you a river. I ain't invested in him.
On the other hand, you seem to be fully invested in JFF. You are the one that will be crying the river about it if he flops. Because I ain't invested in him either. If neither Hoyer nor JFF get it done, then I will move on.....to Connor Shaw....or Mariota or Winston or Joe Blow.
Will you?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
You really are not a football fan are you? You really know nothing about football history do you?
NFL teams are wrong about QBs about 50% of the time. Just look back at the last 10-15 years of first round QBs.....and notice how many are busts.....It has to approach 50%. Let's see, 2007, first two QBs taken....Jamarcus Russell #1 overall......Brady Quinn, Browns trade up to get hm at #22......where are those careers.?
I don't claim that Hoyer will be MVP, I am only saying that such a thing is possible because, like your example of Warner and Sipe, it has been done. And don't forget a couple other guys NFL people were wrong on.....like that 6th rounder #199 in 2000. Or that third rounder in 1979. Each definitely on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time. So it works both ways. A Superstar can come from humble origins.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
Chances are you will be right....but it won't really make you any less of a dumbass.
-
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
It is not nonsensical, it is highly speculative. Learn to know the difference. Brian Sipe was a 13th round draft pick that became league MVP. Kurt Warner was a UDFA that won league MVP. Brian Hoyer, like them could possibly become league MVP. It is possible because it has happened before. Something nonsensical is something that never has and never could happen. This could theoretically.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it.
I don't have to come to terms with it....or deal with it.....because, like Tommy Lee Jones "I don't care". but I can speculate about the possibility because I am a fan and can do what I damn well please. If Hoyer flops, no big deal, we got JFF.
It is a bigger deal if JFF flops. A lot more is expected out of him, but virtue of his draft status and his notoriety.
There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
Again, I don't care what "people" or what some websites say about him. I only care that he performs well and wins. Nothing else really matters.
And if he don't get it done....so be it. I ain't gonna cry you a river. I ain't invested in him.
On the other hand, you seem to be fully invested in JFF. You are the one that will be crying the river about it if he flops. Because I ain't invested in him either. If neither Hoyer nor JFF get it done, then I will move on.....to Connor Shaw....or Mariota or Winston or Joe Blow.
Will you?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
You really are not a football fan are you? You really know nothing about football history do you?
NFL teams are wrong about QBs about 50% of the time. Just look back at the last 10-15 years of first round QBs.....and notice how many are busts.....It has to approach 50%. Let's see, 2007, first two QBs taken....Jamarcus Russell #1 overall......Brady Quinn, Browns trade up to get hm at #22......where are those careers.?
I don't claim that Hoyer will be MVP, I am only saying that such a thing is possible because, like your example of Warner and Sipe, it has been done. And don't forget a couple other guys NFL people were wrong on.....like that 6th rounder #199 in 2000. Or that third rounder in 1979. Each definitely on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time. So it works both ways. A Superstar can come from humble origins.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
Chances are you will be right....but it won't really make you any less of a dumbass.
What if Brian Hoyer breaks Peyton Mannings TD record this year
What if Brian Hoyer decides to be a running QB and leads the league in rushing?
What if Brian Hoyer never throws an incomplete pass this year?
We can talk about all these what ifs, along with yours. All equally nonsensical.
It is not nonsensical, it is highly speculative. Learn to know the difference. Brian Sipe was a 13th round draft pick that became league MVP. Kurt Warner was a UDFA that won league MVP. Brian Hoyer, like them could possibly become league MVP. It is possible because it has happened before. Something nonsensical is something that never has and never could happen. This could theoretically.
You're going to have to comes to terms with the reality that Brian Hoyer isn't a great QB. I'm fully aware that you're not coming to terms with that idea right now, but eventually you're going to have to deal with it.
I don't have to come to terms with it....or deal with it.....because, like Tommy Lee Jones "I don't care". but I can speculate about the possibility because I am a fan and can do what I damn well please. If Hoyer flops, no big deal, we got JFF.
It is a bigger deal if JFF flops. A lot more is expected out of him, but virtue of his draft status and his notoriety.
There's mountains of evidence that Hoyer isn't a great QB. It's all over. There's a reason why he's on his 4th team and currently in the middle of a battle with a Rookie QB. NFL people agree with me on this one. They love his personality, they love his quick release, they don't like his arm and they don't like his accuracy. NFL.com just had an article ranking backup QBs and Hoyer came in 10th. He's three spots behind Shaun Hill for crying out loud.
Again, I don't care what "people" or what some websites say about him. I only care that he performs well and wins. Nothing else really matters.
And if he don't get it done....so be it. I ain't gonna cry you a river. I ain't invested in him.
On the other hand, you seem to be fully invested in JFF. You are the one that will be crying the river about it if he flops. Because I ain't invested in him either. If neither Hoyer nor JFF get it done, then I will move on.....to Connor Shaw....or Mariota or Winston or Joe Blow.
Will you?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377086/article/ranking-all-32-backup-quarterbacks
That's how people in the NFL view Brian Hoyer. The Browns themselves drafted a QB in the first round because they believe the same things about Brian Hoyer. Not the answer. Not going to be NFL MVP. Not Brian Sipe or Kurt Warner. Has a NFL team been wrong about a player before? Yup. But they're right 99.9% of the time. Don't point out the .1% and tell me they're equal.
You really are not a football fan are you? You really know nothing about football history do you?
NFL teams are wrong about QBs about 50% of the time. Just look back at the last 10-15 years of first round QBs.....and notice how many are busts.....It has to approach 50%. Let's see, 2007, first two QBs taken....Jamarcus Russell #1 overall......Brady Quinn, Browns trade up to get hm at #22......where are those careers.?
I don't claim that Hoyer will be MVP, I am only saying that such a thing is possible because, like your example of Warner and Sipe, it has been done. And don't forget a couple other guys NFL people were wrong on.....like that 6th rounder #199 in 2000. Or that third rounder in 1979. Each definitely on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time. So it works both ways. A Superstar can come from humble origins.
Brian Hoyer isn't going to be NFL MVP. I'd love to be pimps from Oakland or cowboys from Arizona, but it's not Halloween. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
Chances are you will be right....but it won't really make you any less of a dumbass.
Teams are wrong about QBs 50% of of the time? Did you seriously just write that?
How about all the QBs that don't get drafted, and those who get cut and those who never start a game and are never heard from again? Was the NFL wrong about them? Half of them? Just because QBs bust sometimes, doesn't mean decisions about QBs are wrong often. Infact you could say teams are wrong about DRAFTING QBs, but very rarely are the wrong about QBs that have been evaluated for a few seasons. Those they're pretty accurate about.
Heres a challenge, find me how many NFL QBs were cut by 3 different teams BEFORE making a Pro Bowl. Or even before they started a season and led a team to the playoffs. Find me how many times 3 teams were all wrong about a QB.
PS- AND HOLD ON.....did you just say that Everyone has Kurt Warner and Brian Sipe on their top 5 QBs of all time? Is this real life?
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So it's nonsensical to talk about Hoyer performing well, but it's not nonsensical to talk about JF performing well?
I would love to know the reasoning behind that.
If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
It doesn't matter what you think....or what I think. It only matters what happens.
Before it happened no one would ever have said "Jim Plunkett will win two Super Bowls"......or...actually, they probably did say that. Jim Plunkett, after all, was only the #1 overall pick of the draft.
No one would have said "Brian Sipe....a 13th round pick will be league MVP"
No one would have said "Kurt Warner, grocery bagger, Arena League player, will become NFL MVP".
No one would have said "Tom Brady, 6th round pick....will never become league MVP. Spergon Wynn who was drafted ahead of Brady is more likely to become an MVP".
In other words you....and particulary YOU....cannot predict anything simply because you believe something.
Lots of people that were supposed to be great weren't.....and lots of people that weren't supposed to be great were.
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If anyone said Johnny is going to win NFL MVP this year, I would consider that nonsensical.
But once again this has nothing to do with Manziel. Its has everything to do with Hoyer and how much people overvalue him. Manziel might suck, don't know yet. I bet by year 5 we'll have a pretty good idea if he's a star or not.
Just discussing Hoyer, I am saying he's not a great QB. He's not Warner or Sipe, he won't be Plunkett or NFL MVP. He's exactly what they said in that NFL article
"Hoyer is what we thought he was: a very good backup with little upside as a starter."
That's reality. There seems to be some around here that has lost grip with reality and turned Hoyer into something he's never even shown a glimpse of.
It doesn't matter what you think....or what I think. It only matters what happens.
Before it happened no one would ever have said "Jim Plunkett will win two Super Bowls"......or...actually, they probably did say that. Jim Plunkett, after all, was only the #1 overall pick of the draft.
No one would have said "Brian Sipe....a 13th round pick will be league MVP"
No one would have said "Kurt Warner, grocery bagger, Arena League player, will become NFL MVP".
No one would have said "Tom Brady, 6th round pick....will never become league MVP. Spergon Wynn who was drafted ahead of Brady is more likely to become an MVP".
In other words you....and particulary YOU....cannot predict anything simply because you believe something.
Lots of people that were supposed to be great weren't.....and lots of people that weren't supposed to be great were.
It doesn't matter what you think....or what I think. It only matters what happens.
Before it happened no one would ever have said "Jim Plunkett will win two Super Bowls"......or...actually, they probably did say that. Jim Plunkett, after all, was only the #1 overall pick of the draft.
No one would have said "Brian Sipe....a 13th round pick will be league MVP"
No one would have said "Kurt Warner, grocery bagger, Arena League player, will become NFL MVP".
No one would have said "Tom Brady, 6th round pick....will never become league MVP. Spergon Wynn who was drafted ahead of Brady is more likely to become an MVP".
In other words you....and particulary YOU....cannot predict anything simply because you believe something.
Lots of people that were supposed to be great weren't.....and lots of people that weren't supposed to be great were.
Ok but now that Hoyer was looked at, evaluated and cut by 3 teams mean nothing to you? You think that happens a lot to future HOFers? How about to future QBs that lead their team to the playoffs?
You can point to all the outliers you want and say "See the NFL isn't perfect" but they're pretty damn close to it. They get it right far more than they get it wrong. ESPECIALLY with veterans. The draft is more tricky, but when a guys been in the league for 5 years and 3 different teams cut him, that's a pretty good sign.
I think you're far too biased to have a reasonable conversation. Brian Sipe in the Top 5 of all time? Of what?
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